JDM OBD0 B16 and JDM OBD1 B16
09-01-2007, 03:03 AM
#1
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JDM OBD0 B16 (Honda CR-X SiR I) and JDM OBD1 B16 (Honda Integra XSi)
Ok, here's the deal. I have a jdm B16, but I want to know what motor it is exactly. It's (obviously) from the SIR (OBD0) or the XSI (OBD1). They both use the PR3 ECU (which is what I'm running) so I can rule out using the ECU to verify (Not always fool proof either)...The guy I got the motor/car from said it was from the Integra XSi which is pretty much the same as the CRX SiR, except for 10hp and 2 torque on the XSi's side...I also know that the valve covers are different. On the SiR the letters "VTEC" are smaller than the letters on the XSi engine (which again the XSi is putting out 170hp, average, at the flywheel). I do not have the receipe for the engine, and the valve cover could have been changed.
Is there any way to tell the difference in the engines without doing some crazy stuff to the engine (like disassembling)?
I was thinking maybe a compression test will yield the truth? The SiR b16 does a 10.2 CR, and the XSi does 10.4...would it put out a noticeable difference in numbers from a compression test? Or is that not enough of a difference in comp. to change the numbers...?
Is there any way to tell the difference in the engines without doing some crazy stuff to the engine (like disassembling)?
I was thinking maybe a compression test will yield the truth? The SiR b16 does a 10.2 CR, and the XSi does 10.4...would it put out a noticeable difference in numbers from a compression test? Or is that not enough of a difference in comp. to change the numbers...?
09-01-2007, 03:13 AM
#2
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Re: JDM OBD0 B16 (denraweb)
Just answered my own question...in a way...
The numbers printed on the casing on the head are pretty sure fire way of checking which engine it is right? Since the Integra XSi is 92-93 and the CR-X SiR is 88-91...
With that said, if the engine came out of a 1991 Honda CRX, the engine will be stamped '90 right?
I have noticed that on US cars/engines, the engine is always stamped the year prior to the make of the car (Assuming they stamp the engine at the VERY END of the previous year, like December '89 for a 1990 car..), but is that the same for JDM engines?
The numbers printed on the casing on the head are pretty sure fire way of checking which engine it is right? Since the Integra XSi is 92-93 and the CR-X SiR is 88-91...
With that said, if the engine came out of a 1991 Honda CRX, the engine will be stamped '90 right?
I have noticed that on US cars/engines, the engine is always stamped the year prior to the make of the car (Assuming they stamp the engine at the VERY END of the previous year, like December '89 for a 1990 car..), but is that the same for JDM engines?
09-01-2007, 06:35 AM
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The head is a good place to look. also look on the block where it says B16A. If its from the xsi it will have a 5 million serial number under it. The crx and civic sir were from 89-91 they didnt have it in 88 im pretty sure.
09-01-2007, 10:22 AM
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Re: JDM OBD0 B16 (denraweb)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by denraweb »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok, here's the deal. I have a jdm B16, but I want to know what motor it is exactly. It's (obviously) from the SIR (OBD0) or the XSI (OBD1). They both use the PR3 ECU (which is what I'm running) so I can rule out using the ECU to verify (Not always fool proof either)...The guy I got the motor/car from said it was from the Integra XSi which is pretty much the same as the CRX SiR, except for 10hp and 2 torque on the XSi's side...I also know that the valve covers are different. On the SiR the letters "VTEC" are smaller than the letters on the XSi engine (which again the XSi is putting out 170hp, average, at the flywheel). I do not have the receipe for the engine, and the valve cover could have been changed.
Is there any way to tell the difference in the engines without doing some crazy stuff to the engine (like disassembling)?
I was thinking maybe a compression test will yield the truth? The SiR b16 does a 10.2 CR, and the XSi does 10.4...would it put out a noticeable difference in numbers from a compression test? Or is that not enough of a difference in comp. to change the numbers...?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well the real difference comes from the fact that B16s up to '91 were OBD 0 and 160hp, in '92 they all jumped to 170hp (jdm anyways) in both the XSi and civic/crxs when they went to OBD 1.
there are lots of ways to tell differences in the 2 versions but that only works if you KNOW the motor has never been opened up after Honda put it together. Other wise the only real way to know other than a compression test is to take off the head and see if the pistons are stamped P30 (obd 1) or PR3 (obd 0). there may be more piston versions available but these are the most common either way.
Is there any way to tell the difference in the engines without doing some crazy stuff to the engine (like disassembling)?
I was thinking maybe a compression test will yield the truth? The SiR b16 does a 10.2 CR, and the XSi does 10.4...would it put out a noticeable difference in numbers from a compression test? Or is that not enough of a difference in comp. to change the numbers...?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well the real difference comes from the fact that B16s up to '91 were OBD 0 and 160hp, in '92 they all jumped to 170hp (jdm anyways) in both the XSi and civic/crxs when they went to OBD 1.
there are lots of ways to tell differences in the 2 versions but that only works if you KNOW the motor has never been opened up after Honda put it together. Other wise the only real way to know other than a compression test is to take off the head and see if the pistons are stamped P30 (obd 1) or PR3 (obd 0). there may be more piston versions available but these are the most common either way.
09-01-2007, 02:24 PM
#5
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Re: JDM OBD0 B16 (VtecSyndrome)
But why would the pistons be stamped P30 if they still use the PR3...? Will they still have the P30 stamp nonetheless? What results would a compression test yield for the obd0 engine compared to the obd1 engine?
09-01-2007, 03:02 PM
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Re: (highflyinhonda)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by highflyinhonda »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The head is a good place to look. also look on the block where it says B16A. If its from the xsi it will have a 5 million serial number under it. The crx and civic sir were from 89-91 they didnt have it in 88 im pretty sure.</TD></TR></TABLE>
No it wont be a 5 million series! I have one out of a XSI, they were the ONLY car to come with the short geared cable YS1 tranny. MY head is stamped 92. It is not a 5 million series.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by denraweb »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I have noticed that on US cars/engines, the engine is always stamped the year prior to the make of the car (Assuming they stamp the engine at the VERY END of the previous year, like December '89 for a 1990 car..), but is that the same for JDM engines?</TD></TR></TABLE>
That is not correct either. My mom got a accord new in 91(made 12/91) and it had 92 stamped on the head.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by denraweb »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> They both use the PR3 ECU (which is what I'm running) so I can rule out using the ECU to verify .I also know that the valve covers are different.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wrong and wrong. Only the integra came with the PR3, ALL the civic/crx's got a PW0.
The valve covers are exactly the same between a obd0 b16 and the 92-93 OBD1 XSI B16
No it wont be a 5 million series! I have one out of a XSI, they were the ONLY car to come with the short geared cable YS1 tranny. MY head is stamped 92. It is not a 5 million series.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by denraweb »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I have noticed that on US cars/engines, the engine is always stamped the year prior to the make of the car (Assuming they stamp the engine at the VERY END of the previous year, like December '89 for a 1990 car..), but is that the same for JDM engines?</TD></TR></TABLE>
That is not correct either. My mom got a accord new in 91(made 12/91) and it had 92 stamped on the head.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by denraweb »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> They both use the PR3 ECU (which is what I'm running) so I can rule out using the ECU to verify .I also know that the valve covers are different.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wrong and wrong. Only the integra came with the PR3, ALL the civic/crx's got a PW0.
The valve covers are exactly the same between a obd0 b16 and the 92-93 OBD1 XSI B16
09-01-2007, 08:12 PM
#7
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Re: (Crx Jimmy)
Lol, wow, cleared up alot of stuff for me...lol.
The valve cover thing was just something I had heard. If you look on hmotorsonline, their pictures of the engines for the XSi and SiR have different valve covers...are you sure that the valve covers are the same? Also I have a PR3, but isn't the PW0 the same thing basically? Well they only made the XSi engines in 92-93 right? 'Cuz my head is stamped 90...meaning if they did only make 'em in 92-93 then I just have a regular SiR engine right? I also have the YS1 tranny...does that fit only on the XSi engine (I'm guessing NO, 'cuz most honda parts are interchangeable)?
Thanks for all the info thus far guys...
The valve cover thing was just something I had heard. If you look on hmotorsonline, their pictures of the engines for the XSi and SiR have different valve covers...are you sure that the valve covers are the same? Also I have a PR3, but isn't the PW0 the same thing basically? Well they only made the XSi engines in 92-93 right? 'Cuz my head is stamped 90...meaning if they did only make 'em in 92-93 then I just have a regular SiR engine right? I also have the YS1 tranny...does that fit only on the XSi engine (I'm guessing NO, 'cuz most honda parts are interchangeable)?
Thanks for all the info thus far guys...
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09-01-2007, 08:46 PM
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Re: (denraweb)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by denraweb »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Lol, wow, cleared up alot of stuff for me...lol.
The valve cover thing was just something I had heard. If you look on hmotorsonline, their pictures of the engines for the XSi and SiR have different valve covers...are you sure that the valve covers are the same? Also I have a PR3, but isn't the PW0 the same thing basically? Well they only made the XSi engines in 92-93 right? 'Cuz my head is stamped 90...meaning if they did only make 'em in 92-93 then I just have a regular SiR engine right? I also have the YS1 tranny...does that fit only on the XSi engine (I'm guessing NO, 'cuz most honda parts are interchangeable)?
Thanks for all the info thus far guys... </TD></TR></TABLE>
The XSi was available as the very first production honda to get a b16 in japan in '89 so yes the crx and xsi had the same engine up to '91. in '92 the CRX became the del sol (still called crx every where else in the ) and along with the XSi gained 10 hp per the cam,piston and ECU upgrades with OBD 1. All Bseries trannies interchange with one another so yes your ys1 will fit any other b-series motor vtec or not.
The valve cover thing was just something I had heard. If you look on hmotorsonline, their pictures of the engines for the XSi and SiR have different valve covers...are you sure that the valve covers are the same? Also I have a PR3, but isn't the PW0 the same thing basically? Well they only made the XSi engines in 92-93 right? 'Cuz my head is stamped 90...meaning if they did only make 'em in 92-93 then I just have a regular SiR engine right? I also have the YS1 tranny...does that fit only on the XSi engine (I'm guessing NO, 'cuz most honda parts are interchangeable)?
Thanks for all the info thus far guys...
</TD></TR></TABLE>The XSi was available as the very first production honda to get a b16 in japan in '89 so yes the crx and xsi had the same engine up to '91. in '92 the CRX became the del sol (still called crx every where else in the ) and along with the XSi gained 10 hp per the cam,piston and ECU upgrades with OBD 1. All Bseries trannies interchange with one another so yes your ys1 will fit any other b-series motor vtec or not.
09-01-2007, 08:58 PM
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Re: (denraweb)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by denraweb »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Lol, wow, cleared up alot of stuff for me...lol.
The valve cover thing was just something I had heard. If you look on hmotorsonline, their pictures of the engines for the XSi and SiR have different valve covers...are you sure that the valve covers are the same? Also I have a PR3, but isn't the PW0 the same thing basically? Well they only made the XSi engines in 92-93 right? 'Cuz my head is stamped 90...meaning if they did only make 'em in 92-93 then I just have a regular SiR engine right? I also have the YS1 tranny...does that fit only on the XSi engine (I'm guessing NO, 'cuz most honda parts are interchangeable)?
Thanks for all the info thus far guys... </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes Im sure about the valve cover. My cover is the same as my friends obdo b16. . they made the xsi from 89-93.the 89-91 xsi had the same as the sir motor. the ys1 was only available in 92-93 it was obd1 but used a 1million series block not the 5 million though. The pr3 and pwo are not the same if you open them up there are differences and pr3 .bins do not work on pwo's. they work similar but are different. I dont know why honda did that. If you have a ys1 on a motor with a 90 stamped head . you might have a pieced together motor/tranny. the motor might have come from japan with an auto tranny and the engine distributor here put on the ys1. If your engine was from a auto you actually probably only have like 150hp they have real crappy cams. They dont have the same cams as a manual. If your motor was obd0 it is not the more powerful 170hp engine either.
The valve cover thing was just something I had heard. If you look on hmotorsonline, their pictures of the engines for the XSi and SiR have different valve covers...are you sure that the valve covers are the same? Also I have a PR3, but isn't the PW0 the same thing basically? Well they only made the XSi engines in 92-93 right? 'Cuz my head is stamped 90...meaning if they did only make 'em in 92-93 then I just have a regular SiR engine right? I also have the YS1 tranny...does that fit only on the XSi engine (I'm guessing NO, 'cuz most honda parts are interchangeable)?
Thanks for all the info thus far guys...
</TD></TR></TABLE>Yes Im sure about the valve cover. My cover is the same as my friends obdo b16. . they made the xsi from 89-93.the 89-91 xsi had the same as the sir motor. the ys1 was only available in 92-93 it was obd1 but used a 1million series block not the 5 million though. The pr3 and pwo are not the same if you open them up there are differences and pr3 .bins do not work on pwo's. they work similar but are different. I dont know why honda did that. If you have a ys1 on a motor with a 90 stamped head . you might have a pieced together motor/tranny. the motor might have come from japan with an auto tranny and the engine distributor here put on the ys1. If your engine was from a auto you actually probably only have like 150hp they have real crappy cams. They dont have the same cams as a manual. If your motor was obd0 it is not the more powerful 170hp engine either.
09-01-2007, 08:58 PM
#10
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Re: (VtecSyndrome)
Ahhh I see (Excuse my ignorance...just got into ED/EF chassis)...So basically it doesn't matter whether I have the XSi or SiR engine since it's a '90...right?
Also if the CRX and Integra had the same engines up until '91, did they both use PW0? Then after '91 when integra upgraded, it used the PR3, is that right? Or did the integra always have the PR3? I'm so lost with the whole PR3/PW0...since they are both obd0 compatible (At least what Im told), yet one is OBd1 and the other being obd0...so lost...
Also if the CRX and Integra had the same engines up until '91, did they both use PW0? Then after '91 when integra upgraded, it used the PR3, is that right? Or did the integra always have the PR3? I'm so lost with the whole PR3/PW0...since they are both obd0 compatible (At least what Im told), yet one is OBd1 and the other being obd0...so lost...
09-01-2007, 09:01 PM
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Re: (Crx Jimmy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crx Jimmy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Yes Im sure about the valve cover. My cover is the same as my friends obdo b16. . they made the xsi from 89-93.the 89-91 xsi had the same as the sir motor. the ys1 was only available in 92-93 it was obd1 but used a 1million series block not the 5 million though. The pr3 and pwo are not the same if you open them up there are differences and pr3 .bins do not work on pwo's. they work similar but are different. I dont know why honda did that. If you have a ys1 on a motor with a 90 stamped head . you might have a pieced together motor/tranny. the motor might have come from japan with an auto tranny and the engine distributor here put on the ys1. If your engine was from a auto you actually probably only have like 150hp they have real crappy cams. They dont have the same cams as a manual. If your motor was obd0 it is not the more powerful 170hp engine either.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ok, but dont' the plugs from obd0 crx plug up to the PW0? How do I figure out if it's actually obd0/1...my '95 civic hatch (Being obd1), has the gray plugs...my crx has green/black plugs...SOOOOOOOOO FRIGGIN LOST!!!
EDIT: Just a quick outline of my set-up...
Tranny: YS1 Cable
Head: Stamped PR3, '90
Block: Stamped B16A (Of course), but I can't remember the number below it...
ECU: PR3, Green/Black plugs...
Engine came straight from hmotorsonline, has the HMO stamp where the "B16A" stamp is...I do not have the paperwork, 'cuz I bought it with the car. But the previous owner has the paperwork, gonna try to get that. He said he bought the engine from hmotors, with mounts, linkage, and harness, and he put the motor in. The main engine harness was bad so he never drove it once swapped in. Is it likely for hmotors to piece parts together like this?
Yes Im sure about the valve cover. My cover is the same as my friends obdo b16. . they made the xsi from 89-93.the 89-91 xsi had the same as the sir motor. the ys1 was only available in 92-93 it was obd1 but used a 1million series block not the 5 million though. The pr3 and pwo are not the same if you open them up there are differences and pr3 .bins do not work on pwo's. they work similar but are different. I dont know why honda did that. If you have a ys1 on a motor with a 90 stamped head . you might have a pieced together motor/tranny. the motor might have come from japan with an auto tranny and the engine distributor here put on the ys1. If your engine was from a auto you actually probably only have like 150hp they have real crappy cams. They dont have the same cams as a manual. If your motor was obd0 it is not the more powerful 170hp engine either.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ok, but dont' the plugs from obd0 crx plug up to the PW0? How do I figure out if it's actually obd0/1...my '95 civic hatch (Being obd1), has the gray plugs...my crx has green/black plugs...SOOOOOOOOO FRIGGIN LOST!!!
EDIT: Just a quick outline of my set-up...
Tranny: YS1 Cable
Head: Stamped PR3, '90
Block: Stamped B16A (Of course), but I can't remember the number below it...
ECU: PR3, Green/Black plugs...
Engine came straight from hmotorsonline, has the HMO stamp where the "B16A" stamp is...I do not have the paperwork, 'cuz I bought it with the car. But the previous owner has the paperwork, gonna try to get that. He said he bought the engine from hmotors, with mounts, linkage, and harness, and he put the motor in. The main engine harness was bad so he never drove it once swapped in. Is it likely for hmotors to piece parts together like this?
09-01-2007, 10:58 PM
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Re: (denraweb)
usually the number on block will tell you. right below where it says B16a, if the number is 1xxxx it is from a sir, 160hp. if it is 5xxxxx, it is XSI
09-01-2007, 11:29 PM
#13
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Re: (ENJOI)
Ok, since I'm pretty sure I have a regular b16 (SiR), then could that be the reason I'm throwing a code 21? I am using the PR3, and everyone says that the SiR engine runs on the PW0...could this cause my code 21 (Vtec) to activate?
09-02-2007, 08:43 AM
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Re: (ENJOI)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ENJOI »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">usually the number on block will tell you. right below where it says B16a, if the number is 1xxxx it is from a sir, 160hp. if it is 5xxxxx, it is XSI </TD></TR></TABLE>
That is not true 92-93 xsi's got 1 million series blocks as well. only the 92 up civics got the 5 million blocks.
The pwo only came in 89-91 crx's/ civics . The pr3 only came in 89-93 integras. the 92-93 integra was obd1 it also used a pr3. there are 2 different pr3's obdo and obd1. if you have the white/green plug it is obdo
</TD></TR></TABLE>That is not true 92-93 xsi's got 1 million series blocks as well. only the 92 up civics got the 5 million blocks.
The pwo only came in 89-91 crx's/ civics . The pr3 only came in 89-93 integras. the 92-93 integra was obd1 it also used a pr3. there are 2 different pr3's obdo and obd1. if you have the white/green plug it is obdo
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