D15B7 obd1 dizzy onto D15B2 obd0
11-01-2011, 02:41 PM
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D15B7 obd1 dizzy onto D15B2 obd0
Quick run down of what happened. First off the block is a JDM D15B, although as far as I know those are supposed to be vtec but that's not the case with this motor. Aside from the D15B stamped on the block it looks to be a typical dpfi D15B2 head. Bearing inside the dizzy started to go, and me being too lazy to do anything about it I waited until the ecu jumped into limp home mode since the sensors inside got chewed up because the bearing had wore out so bad that the shaft started running on an angle. Mainly the crank position sensor got damaged the most which is what code I'm getting off the ECU. The dizzy cap had the contacts nearly sliced off. I couldn't believe the motor was still running to be honest.
Friend of mine gave me a spare dizzy he had off of a D15B7, at least I think that's what it is. I forgot to ask when I got it, but it was a 94 either cx or dx, but I think dx because the motor was 16 valve. Doesn't matter. Wiring should be the same.
So I wired it up. Simple enough. Just want to double check the wiring with you guys since I just used mitchell to put it together.
tdc [obd0]wht-blu [obd1]wht-blu
tdc [obd0]org-blu [obd1]org-blu
ckp [obd0]wht [obd1]lt-blu
ckp [obd0]org [obd1]blu-yel
ignition input signal [obd0]wht [obd1]yel-grn
--------- [obd0]blk-yel [obd1]blk-yel
tach [obd0]blu [obd1]blu
I left the org and wht wires from the CYP alone since this is a dpfi and the old dizzy didn't have them either so I'm guessing that's okay. One thing I wasn't sure about was in which order the 2 wires from each sensor go with the wires on the harness. ie: ckp wht goes with lt-blu or blu-yel. I figured I got it right with the tdc because I'm not getting any codes. But I'm getting a code about the ckp sensor.
The wiring diagrams for the D15B2 show each wire coming off the ckp sensor going into pins on the ecu that are both labeled as CKP input. I kind of thought that one should be an output and the other an input. On the wiring diagram for the D15B7 it shows 'ckp p' on one ecu pin and 'ckp m' on the other. Don't know what the p or m stand for. Thought positive and minus for a sec but figured it would make more sense to use n for negative in that case.
I tired swapping the wires around to see if it'd make a difference, but nothing. I reset the ecu, code is gone up until I start the motor, and then its back right away. I checked resistance, shorts to ground, continuity, everything seems good. Just in case, I had a spare PM5 ecu (was currently running a PM9) and same thing. Code 4. And as far as I know this dizzy came off of a running motor with no codes at the time. I guess it is possible that I got screwed with a dizzy that has another bad ckp, but I thought I'd ask here before I go looking for another one.
Oh, and the last thing I tried before giving up for the day was flipping around the nose that goes into the camshaft. Having it set the original way that it comes out of the D15B7, the timing ends up being 180 degrees off on the D15B2 head. Not a big deal I thought since its a dpfi and doesn't need to know which cylinder is #1 so I just put the #1 plug wire where it would usually be the #4 wire. But after all the trouble I was having, I flipped the nose so the #1 wire was in the same spot as it would be on the D15B7.
The only other thing I thought about doing but was kind of hesitant was to splice in 2 fresh wires straight from the ecu to the dizzy just in case there's something strange in the wires that's causing the ecu to throw out the code.
Other than that, I don't know. Any help would be appreciated.
Actually some good info would be to know exactly how these sensors work. Is there a voltage signal of some sort sent and the returned to the ecu when the reluctor passes the contact point. I mean I find it stupid that the only test mitchell or the civic service manual gives is to check ohms and wires and that alone determines whether the sensor or ecu are screwed. They even suggest replacement of the distributor assembly instead of just changing out the sensor.
Friend of mine gave me a spare dizzy he had off of a D15B7, at least I think that's what it is. I forgot to ask when I got it, but it was a 94 either cx or dx, but I think dx because the motor was 16 valve. Doesn't matter. Wiring should be the same.
So I wired it up. Simple enough. Just want to double check the wiring with you guys since I just used mitchell to put it together.
tdc [obd0]wht-blu [obd1]wht-blu
tdc [obd0]org-blu [obd1]org-blu
ckp [obd0]wht [obd1]lt-blu
ckp [obd0]org [obd1]blu-yel
ignition input signal [obd0]wht [obd1]yel-grn
--------- [obd0]blk-yel [obd1]blk-yel
tach [obd0]blu [obd1]blu
I left the org and wht wires from the CYP alone since this is a dpfi and the old dizzy didn't have them either so I'm guessing that's okay. One thing I wasn't sure about was in which order the 2 wires from each sensor go with the wires on the harness. ie: ckp wht goes with lt-blu or blu-yel. I figured I got it right with the tdc because I'm not getting any codes. But I'm getting a code about the ckp sensor.
The wiring diagrams for the D15B2 show each wire coming off the ckp sensor going into pins on the ecu that are both labeled as CKP input. I kind of thought that one should be an output and the other an input. On the wiring diagram for the D15B7 it shows 'ckp p' on one ecu pin and 'ckp m' on the other. Don't know what the p or m stand for. Thought positive and minus for a sec but figured it would make more sense to use n for negative in that case.
I tired swapping the wires around to see if it'd make a difference, but nothing. I reset the ecu, code is gone up until I start the motor, and then its back right away. I checked resistance, shorts to ground, continuity, everything seems good. Just in case, I had a spare PM5 ecu (was currently running a PM9) and same thing. Code 4. And as far as I know this dizzy came off of a running motor with no codes at the time. I guess it is possible that I got screwed with a dizzy that has another bad ckp, but I thought I'd ask here before I go looking for another one.
Oh, and the last thing I tried before giving up for the day was flipping around the nose that goes into the camshaft. Having it set the original way that it comes out of the D15B7, the timing ends up being 180 degrees off on the D15B2 head. Not a big deal I thought since its a dpfi and doesn't need to know which cylinder is #1 so I just put the #1 plug wire where it would usually be the #4 wire. But after all the trouble I was having, I flipped the nose so the #1 wire was in the same spot as it would be on the D15B7.
The only other thing I thought about doing but was kind of hesitant was to splice in 2 fresh wires straight from the ecu to the dizzy just in case there's something strange in the wires that's causing the ecu to throw out the code.
Other than that, I don't know. Any help would be appreciated.
Actually some good info would be to know exactly how these sensors work. Is there a voltage signal of some sort sent and the returned to the ecu when the reluctor passes the contact point. I mean I find it stupid that the only test mitchell or the civic service manual gives is to check ohms and wires and that alone determines whether the sensor or ecu are screwed. They even suggest replacement of the distributor assembly instead of just changing out the sensor.
11-01-2011, 03:56 PM
#2
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Re: D15B7 obd1 dizzy onto D15B2 obd0
I didn't read most of the post but...
YOU CAN'T MIX OBDs WHEN IT COMES TO OBD-0 and OBD-1... The reluctor rings are different... If you have an OBD-0 ECU you MUST use an OBD-0 distributor. If you have OBD-1 you must use either an OBD-1/2 distributor... plain and simple.
YOU CAN'T MIX OBDs WHEN IT COMES TO OBD-0 and OBD-1... The reluctor rings are different... If you have an OBD-0 ECU you MUST use an OBD-0 distributor. If you have OBD-1 you must use either an OBD-1/2 distributor... plain and simple.
11-01-2011, 04:11 PM
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Re: D15B7 obd1 dizzy onto D15B2 obd0
I've put a obd0 dizzy off of a b18 onto a obd1 b18, just rewired it, and never had any problems. You got all these people mixing and matching obd0 and obd1 parts. So how are they all getting around this problem?
11-01-2011, 04:18 PM
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Re: D15B7 obd1 dizzy onto D15B2 obd0
Or, what if I change the reluctor from the obd0 to the obd1? Will it fit on the shaft and will it work okay with the obd1 sensor or not?
11-01-2011, 04:59 PM
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Re: D15B7 obd1 dizzy onto D15B2 obd0
Read exactly what I said and how I said it...
You are talking about distributors... I brought up ECUs to add to it...
Clearly MAP, TPS, Purge Solenoid, CTS, IAT, TSU, OPS, injectors (with proper resistor box/no resistor box setup),and IACV can work between OBDs...
The OBD-0 O2 sensor won't work on OBD-1 ECU without chipping, but the OBD-1 O2 can be wired to work with OBD-0 ECU...
The OBD-0 and OBD-1 distributor reluctor rings are different as well as the ICM (igniter)... You have 2 extra wires for a reason... Not because Honda just decided to make you scratch your head. I call BS on you using a OBD-0 distributor on a OBD-1 car without any codes...
11-01-2011, 06:07 PM
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Re: D15B7 obd1 dizzy onto D15B2 obd0
Well, it would be nice if it worked out as well as it did the first time but since it didn't that's why I posted. Also I never said I never got any codes with the B18. Honestly, it never occurred to me to check. I wired it up for a guy, we started the motor, seemed to run okay. He drove around the block, said it was fine, and he took off. And the only reason I attempted it is because of all the info floating around the net about people swapping dizzies on Hondas with no trouble. Plus, at the time I had a nice pic pulled off of a forum that showed exactly which wires to match together. I was looking for something like that here but I wasn't able to find anyone taking an obd1 dizzy off of a D15B7 and putting it on a D15B2. But there just seems to be plenty of people claiming an obd1 to obd0 dizzy swap is possible, but they're usually talking about dohc and si motors.
As for the 2 extra wires, they're for the cylinder position sensor, which as I said I figured wasn't important on a throttle body injection setup since it doesn't really need to know which cylinder is #1. The obd1 dizzy I have came off of a mpfi motor so I figured that's what the extra sensor was for, so the ecu can keep track what cylinder its on.
The ckp sensor's reluctor in these distributors looks like its more for checking the position of the each cylinder's movement, but not the actually tracking of which cylinder is firing. The cylinder position sensor looks like its designed to do that. Please correct me on this if I'm wrong as I'm always open to learning something new.
But it does make sense what you're saying that the reluctors are different. It would explain my problem. I never actually took a good look at them. At a glance, they seem the same. So back to my question which you didn't answer, would I be able to swap out the reluctor from the obd0 dizzy into the obd1. If it does fit on the shaft, would it work properly with the obd1 sensor?
As for the 2 extra wires, they're for the cylinder position sensor, which as I said I figured wasn't important on a throttle body injection setup since it doesn't really need to know which cylinder is #1. The obd1 dizzy I have came off of a mpfi motor so I figured that's what the extra sensor was for, so the ecu can keep track what cylinder its on.
The ckp sensor's reluctor in these distributors looks like its more for checking the position of the each cylinder's movement, but not the actually tracking of which cylinder is firing. The cylinder position sensor looks like its designed to do that. Please correct me on this if I'm wrong as I'm always open to learning something new.
But it does make sense what you're saying that the reluctors are different. It would explain my problem. I never actually took a good look at them. At a glance, they seem the same. So back to my question which you didn't answer, would I be able to swap out the reluctor from the obd0 dizzy into the obd1. If it does fit on the shaft, would it work properly with the obd1 sensor?
11-03-2011, 03:35 PM
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Re: D15B7 obd1 dizzy onto D15B2 obd0
I was gonna try to switch out the reluctors today but I got lucky and got a call back from a guy who hooked me up with an obd0 dizzy. Can't believe how hard it is to come by these. Couple years back you could get 'em anywhere. Didn't want to spend the money on a new one since I'm selling the car.
Anyways, it came off a D15B2, so same engine, and everything seemed okay at first. Most important thing was it got rid of that damned #4 CKP code. Now I know, obd1 dizzies don't quite mix with obd0.
Now I got some new problem I can't figure out. Having major issues timing the damned thing. I pretty much have to advance it as far as the slotted holes allow the dizzy to go and its still a few degrees retarded from where it should be according to the crank pulley. Never had this problem with the original dizzy I had in here before it blew to hell, and also when I timed the motor with the obd1 dizzy. For some reason it won't reach the red mark which is like 18 btdc.
I e-tested her anyways and she passed no problem. But its still bothering me why the timing would be off like that. Any ideas besides drilling the slots larger?
Anyways, it came off a D15B2, so same engine, and everything seemed okay at first. Most important thing was it got rid of that damned #4 CKP code. Now I know, obd1 dizzies don't quite mix with obd0.
Now I got some new problem I can't figure out. Having major issues timing the damned thing. I pretty much have to advance it as far as the slotted holes allow the dizzy to go and its still a few degrees retarded from where it should be according to the crank pulley. Never had this problem with the original dizzy I had in here before it blew to hell, and also when I timed the motor with the obd1 dizzy. For some reason it won't reach the red mark which is like 18 btdc.
I e-tested her anyways and she passed no problem. But its still bothering me why the timing would be off like that. Any ideas besides drilling the slots larger?
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