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Brake bleeding problems

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Old 03-05-2017, 10:03 PM   #1
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Default Brake bleeding problems

Hello ht, I'm having some problems bleeding my ef after replacing pads and shoes. The worked fine before and then I went to replace the old dirty brake fluid and now somethings messed up. I was starting to replace the fluid by cycling It out of the system and then the pedal went to the floor. The problem is I am not getting any fluid out of the breeders. (Bleeders have been removed and cleaned and are not clogged). I don't have any leaks and have tried to pumping with the bleeders removed and still nothing. I think that the master went bad or it got clogged, has anyone had this problem before or have any suggestions?
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Old 03-06-2017, 05:07 AM   #2
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Default Re: Brake bleeding problems

When you were cycling the fluid out, did you let the reservoir run dry? If so, then you probably have trapped air inside the master cylinder. You may have to remove the master cylinder and bench bleed it.
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Old 03-06-2017, 07:33 AM   #3
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Default Re: Brake bleeding problems

^^ probably air in the MC.

Also, were you pushing the pedal all the way down to the floor?
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Old 03-06-2017, 09:43 PM   #4
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Default Re: Brake bleeding problems

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When you were cycling the fluid out, did you let the reservoir run dry? If so, then you probably have trapped air inside the master cylinder. You may have to remove the master cylinder and bench bleed it.
Yes I made sure not to let the master run dry
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Old 03-06-2017, 09:44 PM   #5
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^^ probably air in the MC.

Also, were you pushing the pedal all the way down to the floor?
Yes I was having a buddy help me pump the pedal
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Old 03-08-2017, 02:36 PM   #6
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Default Re: Brake bleeding problems

If your assistant was pushing the pedal to the floor during bleeding, it could have damaged your brakes.
You are supposed to only press down about 2/3 of the way and then stop.
All the way can extend the piston in the master cylinder beyond it's normal travel causing damage to the seal.
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Old 03-08-2017, 09:13 PM   #7
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Default Re: Brake bleeding problems

what 4drEF said.

if someone new is helping, I always put a block of wood under the brake pedal for them. that way they can't go apeshit and ruin my master cyl.

they've probably rolled the orings off the shaft or something like that.
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Old 03-11-2017, 04:53 PM   #8
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Old 03-11-2017, 11:34 PM   #9
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Default Re: Brake bleeding problems

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Originally Posted by 94eg! View Post
When you were cycling the fluid out, did you let the reservoir run dry? If so, then you probably have trapped air inside the master cylinder. You may have to remove the master cylinder and bench bleed it.
Nah, will work it's way out.
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Old 03-14-2017, 03:11 PM   #10
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Default Re: Brake bleeding problems

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Originally Posted by 4drEF View Post
If your assistant was pushing the pedal to the floor during bleeding, it could have damaged your brakes.
You are supposed to only press down about 2/3 of the way and then stop.
All the way can extend the piston in the master cylinder beyond it's normal travel causing damage to the seal.
I accidentally pushed the pedal to the floor when I was bleeding my brakes. Brakes work ok but just ok. I feel like they should be better since I changed rotors/pads. I would see leaking if the seal was damaged, no?
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Old 03-14-2017, 04:52 PM   #11
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Default Re: Brake bleeding problems

correct me if wrong but doesn't the $30 vacuum pump bypass this issue?
it's definitely cheaper than the last friend who borrowed money that i have yet to see.
plus it works on my hydraulic clutch too and certain sex toys that
someone had delivered to my house, god bless whomever arranged that!:whistle:
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Old 03-15-2017, 03:27 PM   #12
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Default Re: Brake bleeding problems

slagman, not necessarily, a master cyl can be bypassing internally without a leak evident. fluid would flow between chambers rather than flowing outside where you can see it. It can also leak back inside the booster, so a leak like that won't be evident right away.

did you wipe the packing oil off the new rotors? how many miles on the new pads? it takes about 200-300 miles for new pads to 'bed' properly. lastly, not all pads are created equal. some pads are just crap, and it isn't always the cheap ones. I use a really cheap organic pad on my daily, and it grips like none other - but makes a mess of dust doing it. Some of the ceramics make no dust at all, but also don't stop either.

Finally, is your brake pedal dead firm? A leak is indicated by a sinking pedal. So you should be able to stand on your brakes for a full minute, and have no movement in the pedal. If you feel the pedal getting away from you, you either still have air in the system or a leak somewhere. A bad master cyl usually is most evident when the weather is warm and you find you have to press further and further down to maintain constant braking (like in an auto car at a red light... you keep your foot on the pedal, but the car after a min starts to creep forward).

tamboo, I haven't honestly had a ton of luck with vacuum bleeding. I have a mity-vac, and I do use it. But there is no replacement for having an assistant pump while you bleed. I've contemplated pressure bleeding too, whereby I force fluid back from the caliper into the master cyl reservoir and then extract from the master cyl, but I haven't done it. Seems messy, but highly effective I would think. My mountain bike is like that, you fill through the caliper bleeder and dump from the brake handle.
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Old 03-15-2017, 04:58 PM   #13
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Default Re: Brake bleeding problems

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Originally Posted by bbarbulo View Post
slagman, not necessarily, a master cyl can be bypassing internally without a leak evident. fluid would flow between chambers rather than flowing outside where you can see it. It can also leak back inside the booster, so a leak like that won't be evident right away.

did you wipe the packing oil off the new rotors? how many miles on the new pads? it takes about 200-300 miles for new pads to 'bed' properly. lastly, not all pads are created equal. some pads are just crap, and it isn't always the cheap ones. I use a really cheap organic pad on my daily, and it grips like none other - but makes a mess of dust doing it. Some of the ceramics make no dust at all, but also don't stop either.

Finally, is your brake pedal dead firm? A leak is indicated by a sinking pedal. So you should be able to stand on your brakes for a full minute, and have no movement in the pedal. If you feel the pedal getting away from you, you either still have air in the system or a leak somewhere. A bad master cyl usually is most evident when the weather is warm and you find you have to press further and further down to maintain constant braking (like in an auto car at a red light... you keep your foot on the pedal, but the car after a min starts to creep forward).

tamboo, I haven't honestly had a ton of luck with vacuum bleeding. I have a mity-vac, and I do use it. But there is no replacement for having an assistant pump while you bleed. I've contemplated pressure bleeding too, whereby I force fluid back from the caliper into the master cyl reservoir and then extract from the master cyl, but I haven't done it. Seems messy, but highly effective I would think. My mountain bike is like that, you fill through the caliper bleeder and dump from the brake handle.
thanks for the input no it is not a firm pedal until like an inch off the floor. I am just going to replace the master and see what else goes on. I'm pretty sure my helper pressed the pedal too hard down and it messed up the master
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