I no longer have an oil dilution problem.
03-22-2020, 12:36 PM
#1
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I no longer have an oil dilution problem.
I'm posting this to say theres a fix to this dilution prob, but may not be what you expect. I bought a used '17 CRV with low mileage early last year. I can say the car is great, and my wife loves it. She gets easily 34mpg, super happy. I change the oil religiously and do much/all my own maint. Shortly after the first oil change I noticed the oil increasing and discovered the oil dilution issue all over the interweb, all stating similar issues surrounding cold starts, fuel smell, oil increase, etc. I'm positive this car had a dilution prob cuz it was evident after each oil change. Spoke to several honda service depts who simply played STUPID. I admit I'm not a certified mech by trade but I'm a decent mech and knew it was basically 2 or 3 problems; excessive ring gap or misaligned ring gaps allowing fuel past when cold, excessive fuel pressure blowing past rings when cold, or a defective EGR emissions system. I was changing oil every 2500 miles and monitoring closely, surenuff it was diluting.
We've had the car a year now, and the dilution problem is COMPLETELY GONE. It lasted several months and then resolved after 2-3 long road trips (roughly 1000 mi round trip each). My theory, motors and parts need to break in, as with cylinders, the rings need to seat and mate with the cylinder walls. I'm confident those nice long drives at 75+ helped to break in the motor and seat the rings, fixing this problem. This dilution prob is not goin away with short drives, and cold starts. Given honda and others assemble with very, very, tight tolerances. Honda and other imports have a proven track record of 200-300,000 miles, it doesn't surprise me that a good break-in might be the fix.
We've had the car a year now, and the dilution problem is COMPLETELY GONE. It lasted several months and then resolved after 2-3 long road trips (roughly 1000 mi round trip each). My theory, motors and parts need to break in, as with cylinders, the rings need to seat and mate with the cylinder walls. I'm confident those nice long drives at 75+ helped to break in the motor and seat the rings, fixing this problem. This dilution prob is not goin away with short drives, and cold starts. Given honda and others assemble with very, very, tight tolerances. Honda and other imports have a proven track record of 200-300,000 miles, it doesn't surprise me that a good break-in might be the fix.
03-23-2020, 08:07 AM
#2
Honda-Tech Member
Re: I no longer have an oil dilution problem.
I totally believe that the motor takes at least 20k miles to fully be broken in. I don't drive a CRV so I didn't know about this issue but it is good to know!
04-05-2021, 11:12 AM
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Re: I no longer have an oil dilution problem.
This post is more than a year old. Would you give us an update? Is your CR-V still showing no signs of oil dilution?
I'm looking to buy one, and this unresolved issue is really making me think twice.
I'm looking to buy one, and this unresolved issue is really making me think twice.
I'm posting this to say theres a fix to this dilution prob, but may not be what you expect. I bought a used '17 CRV with low mileage early last year. I can say the car is great, and my wife loves it. She gets easily 34mpg, super happy. I change the oil religiously and do much/all my own maint. Shortly after the first oil change I noticed the oil increasing and discovered the oil dilution issue all over the interweb, all stating similar issues surrounding cold starts, fuel smell, oil increase, etc. I'm positive this car had a dilution prob cuz it was evident after each oil change. Spoke to several honda service depts who simply played STUPID. I admit I'm not a certified mech by trade but I'm a decent mech and knew it was basically 2 or 3 problems; excessive ring gap or misaligned ring gaps allowing fuel past when cold, excessive fuel pressure blowing past rings when cold, or a defective EGR emissions system. I was changing oil every 2500 miles and monitoring closely, surenuff it was diluting.
We've had the car a year now, and the dilution problem is COMPLETELY GONE. It lasted several months and then resolved after 2-3 long road trips (roughly 1000 mi round trip each). My theory, motors and parts need to break in, as with cylinders, the rings need to seat and mate with the cylinder walls. I'm confident those nice long drives at 75+ helped to break in the motor and seat the rings, fixing this problem. This dilution prob is not goin away with short drives, and cold starts. Given honda and others assemble with very, very, tight tolerances. Honda and other imports have a proven track record of 200-300,000 miles, it doesn't surprise me that a good break-in might be the fix.
We've had the car a year now, and the dilution problem is COMPLETELY GONE. It lasted several months and then resolved after 2-3 long road trips (roughly 1000 mi round trip each). My theory, motors and parts need to break in, as with cylinders, the rings need to seat and mate with the cylinder walls. I'm confident those nice long drives at 75+ helped to break in the motor and seat the rings, fixing this problem. This dilution prob is not goin away with short drives, and cold starts. Given honda and others assemble with very, very, tight tolerances. Honda and other imports have a proven track record of 200-300,000 miles, it doesn't surprise me that a good break-in might be the fix.
04-05-2021, 03:41 PM
#4
Honda-Tech Member
Re: I no longer have an oil dilution problem.
The problem of water and gasoline accumulation in the oil is worse if the car is not driven HOT. Higher oil temperatures at higher speeds are required to evaporate the condensed liquids. That is one reason why highway miles are desirable over city miles.
In my (admittedly limited) experience, based on oil consumption 80% of Honda engine break in happens in the first 120 miles. And the remaining 20% happens by 600 miles. Engines that are not broken in consume oil; they do not accumulate it.
Now, having said all that, I am unfamiliar with the issue of "oil accumulation" described here.
In my (admittedly limited) experience, based on oil consumption 80% of Honda engine break in happens in the first 120 miles. And the remaining 20% happens by 600 miles. Engines that are not broken in consume oil; they do not accumulate it.
Now, having said all that, I am unfamiliar with the issue of "oil accumulation" described here.
Last edited by NukeNinja; 04-05-2021 at 03:44 PM. Reason: clarification
04-06-2021, 04:39 PM
#5
Re: I no longer have an oil dilution problem.
Time to do some education, the first iterations of direct injection from Honda had a real bad problem of making oil. It was fuel running past the rings on cold starts. There is a software update that allegedly fixes the issue.
I would imagine just like the K series stuff, they won't seal up without some heavy loads on the regular. High performance engines need to be worked.
I would imagine just like the K series stuff, they won't seal up without some heavy loads on the regular. High performance engines need to be worked.
04-07-2021, 08:35 PM
#6
Re: I no longer have an oil dilution problem.
I'm posting this to say theres a fix to this dilution prob, but may not be what you expect. I bought a used '17 CRV with low mileage early last year. I can say the car is great, and my wife loves it. She gets easily 34mpg, super happy. I change the oil religiously and do much/all my own maint. Shortly after the first oil change I noticed the oil increasing and discovered the oil dilution issue all over the interweb, all stating similar issues surrounding cold starts, fuel smell, oil increase, etc. I'm positive this car had a dilution prob cuz it was evident after each oil change. Spoke to several honda service depts who simply played STUPID. I admit I'm not a certified mech by trade but I'm a decent mech and knew it was basically 2 or 3 problems; excessive ring gap or misaligned ring gaps allowing fuel past when cold, excessive fuel pressure blowing past rings when cold, or a defective EGR emissions system. I was changing oil every 2500 miles and monitoring closely, surenuff it was diluting.
We've had the car a year now, and the dilution problem is COMPLETELY GONE. It lasted several months and then resolved after 2-3 long road trips (roughly 1000 mi round trip each). My theory, motors and parts need to break in, as with cylinders, the rings need to seat and mate with the cylinder walls. I'm confident those nice long drives at 75+ helped to break in the motor and seat the rings, fixing this problem. This dilution prob is not goin away with short drives, and cold starts. Given honda and others assemble with very, very, tight tolerances. Honda and other imports have a proven track record of 200-300,000 miles, it doesn't surprise me that a good break-in might be the fix.
We've had the car a year now, and the dilution problem is COMPLETELY GONE. It lasted several months and then resolved after 2-3 long road trips (roughly 1000 mi round trip each). My theory, motors and parts need to break in, as with cylinders, the rings need to seat and mate with the cylinder walls. I'm confident those nice long drives at 75+ helped to break in the motor and seat the rings, fixing this problem. This dilution prob is not goin away with short drives, and cold starts. Given honda and others assemble with very, very, tight tolerances. Honda and other imports have a proven track record of 200-300,000 miles, it doesn't surprise me that a good break-in might be the fix.
The problem two fold.
First the DFI system is injecting fuel directly into the combustion chambers after the intake valve is closed. During warm up, the tolerances are wider than an engine at operation temperatures. Some fuel gets past the rings. This in itself isn't unusual. However DFI can make this benign situation worse.
Second, these are thin wall casted blocks. So the aluminum block easily dissipates heat and warms up slowly. If this engine idles for 25 minutes it will not warm up.
Consequently, the cooler crankcase will not easily vaporize and dissipate the fuel in the form of vapors through the PCV system. Because the warm up is so slow there is allot of condensation being produced within the block. Short trips make this worse in colder climates; this is the predominant issue.
The software fix for this ( Honda Product Update) involves remapping the cold start fuel delivery and also prioritizes engine warm up over cabin heat. In effect, the HVAC software was also rewritten in the update to not spool up the HVAC blower ( in auto mode) during warm up to allow more heat to build up in the block.
In cold climates, Honda is marketing 110v plug in cabin heaters ( interior warmers) to preheat the cabin.
It is still a great engine and it responds well to performance tuning.
My advice is to get a catch can in the PVC system if you plan on owning one for 10 years. It has been found that with DFI and cold blocks, allot of water vapor is coming into the PCV system and issues are popping up regularly with the injection nozzels plugging up on 4 cyl and V6 engines. The results are multiple and random DTCs and the repair is a complete replacement of all of the injectors; not cheap if out of warranty. Some repair shops are finding an excessive amount if carbon building up behind the intake valves because fuel is not sprayed behind the valves in a DFI engine. Manufacturers are now seeing the benefit of having port injection in complimentary operation with a DFI system to mitigate all of these issues.
07-05-2022, 10:49 AM
#7
Re: I no longer have an oil dilution problem.
Being from a Honda dealership background I'll explain this issue simply. You are correct in assuming long drives at operating temperature will mitigate this complaint. The rings seating isn't changing much however as the oil control rings will drag unburned gasoline into the crankcase and and cold ( wider) compression ring gaps will allow the fuel to get there.
The problem two fold.
First the DFI system is injecting fuel directly into the combustion chambers after the intake valve is closed. During warm up, the tolerances are wider than an engine at operation temperatures. Some fuel gets past the rings. This in itself isn't unusual. However DFI can make this benign situation worse.
Second, these are thin wall casted blocks. So the aluminum block easily dissipates heat and warms up slowly. If this engine idles for 25 minutes it will not warm up.
Consequently, the cooler crankcase will not easily vaporize and dissipate the fuel in the form of vapors through the PCV system. Because the warm up is so slow there is allot of condensation being produced within the block. Short trips make this worse in colder climates; this is the predominant issue.
The software fix for this ( Honda Product Update) involves remapping the cold start fuel delivery and also prioritizes engine warm up over cabin heat. In effect, the HVAC software was also rewritten in the update to not spool up the HVAC blower ( in auto mode) during warm up to allow more heat to build up in the block.
In cold climates, Honda is marketing 110v plug in cabin heaters ( interior warmers) to preheat the cabin.
It is still a great engine and it responds well to performance tuning.
My advice is to get a catch can in the PVC system if you plan on owning one for 10 years. It has been found that with DFI and cold blocks, allot of water vapor is coming into the PCV system and issues are popping up regularly with the injection nozzels plugging up on 4 cyl and V6 engines. The results are multiple and random DTCs and the repair is a complete replacement of all of the injectors; not cheap if out of warranty. Some repair shops are finding an excessive amount if carbon building up behind the intake valves because fuel is not sprayed behind the valves in a DFI engine. Manufacturers are now seeing the benefit of having port injection in complimentary operation with a DFI system to mitigate all of these issues.
The problem two fold.
First the DFI system is injecting fuel directly into the combustion chambers after the intake valve is closed. During warm up, the tolerances are wider than an engine at operation temperatures. Some fuel gets past the rings. This in itself isn't unusual. However DFI can make this benign situation worse.
Second, these are thin wall casted blocks. So the aluminum block easily dissipates heat and warms up slowly. If this engine idles for 25 minutes it will not warm up.
Consequently, the cooler crankcase will not easily vaporize and dissipate the fuel in the form of vapors through the PCV system. Because the warm up is so slow there is allot of condensation being produced within the block. Short trips make this worse in colder climates; this is the predominant issue.
The software fix for this ( Honda Product Update) involves remapping the cold start fuel delivery and also prioritizes engine warm up over cabin heat. In effect, the HVAC software was also rewritten in the update to not spool up the HVAC blower ( in auto mode) during warm up to allow more heat to build up in the block.
In cold climates, Honda is marketing 110v plug in cabin heaters ( interior warmers) to preheat the cabin.
It is still a great engine and it responds well to performance tuning.
My advice is to get a catch can in the PVC system if you plan on owning one for 10 years. It has been found that with DFI and cold blocks, allot of water vapor is coming into the PCV system and issues are popping up regularly with the injection nozzels plugging up on 4 cyl and V6 engines. The results are multiple and random DTCs and the repair is a complete replacement of all of the injectors; not cheap if out of warranty. Some repair shops are finding an excessive amount if carbon building up behind the intake valves because fuel is not sprayed behind the valves in a DFI engine. Manufacturers are now seeing the benefit of having port injection in complimentary operation with a DFI system to mitigate all of these issues.
Hello there, I see you stated you have a decent Honda background so let me ask you, would you buy one of the 10th gen 1.5T Honda's with your own hard earned money? I have a 2021 Honda Accord LX and I'm focused on longevity and reliability. Hoping to get 7-10 worry free years from the engine. Also, what does a catch can do strictly for oil dilution? Or does it *just* help prevent the your intake manifold from build up? Thank you!
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12-03-2022, 11:57 AM
#9
Honda-Tech Member
Re: I no longer have an oil dilution problem.
The software fix for oil dilution is an attempt to minimize cold running time. It does not fix the issue.
I have a 2018 accord lx, 1.5t, with 60,300 miles and had check engine lights and misfire codes.
I thought it was going to be the hugely popular fuel injection replacement that the web is screaming about.
But, the dealer says it's a blown head gasket on mine.
I don't know of any maintenance required to prevent a blown head gasket other than avoiding over heating the engine (which it never has).
This 1.5 turbo earth dreams engine seems to be a bad design for longevity.
Numerous fuel injection problems, head gasket problems, oil dilution problems make this engine a bad design.
A few web searches in you t ube will reveal how many people are having these same issues.
Question now is, will honda save it's reputation by recalling this engine or at least pay for repairs up to end of life.
I've heard honda has issues a tsb to cover fuel injector replacements up to 150k miles.
I haven't see this tsb yet. Seems the web search engines these days try to avoid giving you good info but rather advertising.
I have a 2018 accord lx, 1.5t, with 60,300 miles and had check engine lights and misfire codes.
I thought it was going to be the hugely popular fuel injection replacement that the web is screaming about.
But, the dealer says it's a blown head gasket on mine.
I don't know of any maintenance required to prevent a blown head gasket other than avoiding over heating the engine (which it never has).
This 1.5 turbo earth dreams engine seems to be a bad design for longevity.
Numerous fuel injection problems, head gasket problems, oil dilution problems make this engine a bad design.
A few web searches in you t ube will reveal how many people are having these same issues.
Question now is, will honda save it's reputation by recalling this engine or at least pay for repairs up to end of life.
I've heard honda has issues a tsb to cover fuel injector replacements up to 150k miles.
I haven't see this tsb yet. Seems the web search engines these days try to avoid giving you good info but rather advertising.
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12-05-2022, 05:28 PM
#10
Re: I no longer have an oil dilution problem.
Hello there, I see you stated you have a decent Honda background so let me ask you, would you buy one of the 10th gen 1.5T Honda's with your own hard earned money? I have a 2021 Honda Accord LX and I'm focused on longevity and reliability. Hoping to get 7-10 worry free years from the engine. Also, what does a catch can do strictly for oil dilution? Or does it *just* help prevent the your intake manifold from build up? Thank you!
It might be money well spent to but a 2018 or newer or be sure the software updates are done. I tuned my previous 2017 crv with a Hondata tuner and really loved it. It's still going.
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12-07-2022, 06:50 AM
#11
Honda-Tech Member
Re: I no longer have an oil dilution problem.
Davey7847, i'm glad your ride is reliable. However, saying the 1.5t is durable is quite the stretch. Youtube videos clearly show the cheapness of the 1.5t internals. All the civic tuners say the same thing . . . it's a weak engine. Especially the head bolts. The crank, rods, bolts are very small and can fail quickly if stressed. It's a very efficient engine and lively. Recently, on a 600 mile all highway trip, i recorded 47mpg which is spectacular. However, all those gas money savings quickly disappear if anything goes wrong w/the engine. I babied mine like it was to last a lifetime and it still blew a head gasket at 59k miles. Totally bummed. I would not recommend anyone purchasing any car w/the 1.5t engine.
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12-09-2022, 08:37 AM
#12
Honda-Tech Member
Re: I no longer have an oil dilution problem.
Being from a Honda dealership background I'll explain this issue simply. You are correct in assuming long drives at operating temperature will mitigate this complaint. The rings seating isn't changing much however as the oil control rings will drag unburned gasoline into the crankcase and and cold ( wider) compression ring gaps will allow the fuel to get there.
The problem two fold.
First the DFI system is injecting fuel directly into the combustion chambers after the intake valve is closed. During warm up, the tolerances are wider than an engine at operation temperatures. Some fuel gets past the rings. This in itself isn't unusual. However DFI can make this benign situation worse.
Second, these are thin wall casted blocks. So the aluminum block easily dissipates heat and warms up slowly. If this engine idles for 25 minutes it will not warm up.
Consequently, the cooler crankcase will not easily vaporize and dissipate the fuel in the form of vapors through the PCV system. Because the warm up is so slow there is allot of condensation being produced within the block. Short trips make this worse in colder climates; this is the predominant issue.
The software fix for this ( Honda Product Update) involves remapping the cold start fuel delivery and also prioritizes engine warm up over cabin heat. In effect, the HVAC software was also rewritten in the update to not spool up the HVAC blower ( in auto mode) during warm up to allow more heat to build up in the block.
In cold climates, Honda is marketing 110v plug in cabin heaters ( interior warmers) to preheat the cabin.
It is still a great engine and it responds well to performance tuning.
My advice is to get a catch can in the PVC system if you plan on owning one for 10 years. It has been found that with DFI and cold blocks, allot of water vapor is coming into the PCV system and issues are popping up regularly with the injection nozzels plugging up on 4 cyl and V6 engines. The results are multiple and random DTCs and the repair is a complete replacement of all of the injectors; not cheap if out of warranty. Some repair shops are finding an excessive amount if carbon building up behind the intake valves because fuel is not sprayed behind the valves in a DFI engine. Manufacturers are now seeing the benefit of having port injection in complimentary operation with a DFI system to mitigate all of these issues.
The problem two fold.
First the DFI system is injecting fuel directly into the combustion chambers after the intake valve is closed. During warm up, the tolerances are wider than an engine at operation temperatures. Some fuel gets past the rings. This in itself isn't unusual. However DFI can make this benign situation worse.
Second, these are thin wall casted blocks. So the aluminum block easily dissipates heat and warms up slowly. If this engine idles for 25 minutes it will not warm up.
Consequently, the cooler crankcase will not easily vaporize and dissipate the fuel in the form of vapors through the PCV system. Because the warm up is so slow there is allot of condensation being produced within the block. Short trips make this worse in colder climates; this is the predominant issue.
The software fix for this ( Honda Product Update) involves remapping the cold start fuel delivery and also prioritizes engine warm up over cabin heat. In effect, the HVAC software was also rewritten in the update to not spool up the HVAC blower ( in auto mode) during warm up to allow more heat to build up in the block.
In cold climates, Honda is marketing 110v plug in cabin heaters ( interior warmers) to preheat the cabin.
It is still a great engine and it responds well to performance tuning.
My advice is to get a catch can in the PVC system if you plan on owning one for 10 years. It has been found that with DFI and cold blocks, allot of water vapor is coming into the PCV system and issues are popping up regularly with the injection nozzels plugging up on 4 cyl and V6 engines. The results are multiple and random DTCs and the repair is a complete replacement of all of the injectors; not cheap if out of warranty. Some repair shops are finding an excessive amount if carbon building up behind the intake valves because fuel is not sprayed behind the valves in a DFI engine. Manufacturers are now seeing the benefit of having port injection in complimentary operation with a DFI system to mitigate all of these issues.
We bought it 3-2021with 30some thousand miles.
I was just getting to sending an oil sample in.
Do you have any links or recommendations for a catch can?
ThanksGreat post
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