radeonboy

Okay I consider this a freak accident somehow. Okay I finished up changing my oil and spark plugs for a JDM D15B. These are the long reach ones ZFR6F-11. The ones on the timing cover.

Anyway I always hand tight first and then turn it 1/4 turn with a socket. I've never had a problem before until this one. Maybe I should hand tight and don't even use a socket anymore since these are longer reach?

Everything seemed fine for couple of minutes I had the car on idle, went out on flat leveled ground to check for oil level.

Okay skip till today and started the car for a couple of minutes and then proceeded to drive off. I drive off pass my neighbourhood intersection and then all of a sudden the car starts to vibrate hard, more when gas was used, and still present under idle. I'm like WTF and proceed back home slowly. I'm like maybe I didn't put in the plugs properly?? I didnt think so though, I double checked everything.

After I come home, my dad checked it for me since I had school, turns out the spark plug end got crunched off and fell into the cylinder head. WOW that is a first. Now my dad says we'll have to take off the head and hopefully its sitting somewhere......

And hopefully there isnt much damage. The top part came off along with that white part in the spark plug. Surprisingly only that piece got chopped off. The whole thread is still intact.

Now WTF happened and what can you folks suggest is "the next step?". Thank you!

- Mike

radeonboy

Here are the pictures of the lone problem plug. Actually its still in tact somewhat. Just some white part fell in + probably metal.

E.Honda

Looks to me as if the piston head came off the rod or the rod busted and slung the piston up into the plug. Or you had a plug different than the rest and it was too long. One other thing but doubtful.....something was sitting on top of the piston such as a valve.

PyroProblem

Something must have fell into the spark plug hole.
Are all your valvecover nuts and wire cover nuts accounted for?
Ive seen this before.

Mangotreemechanic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PyroProblem &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Something must have fell into the spark plug hole.
Are all your valvecover nuts and wire cover nuts accounted for?
Ive seen this before.</TD></TR></TABLE>
+ 1

Hybrid_Ej188

does it start?

radeonboy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PyroProblem &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Something must have fell into the spark plug hole.
Are all your valvecover nuts and wire cover nuts accounted for?
Ive seen this before.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I will check again but Im pretty sure everything was tightened since we never opened it up for a while.

radeonboy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid_Ej188 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">does it start?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm going to assume so, just that I dont want to start it and f**k more **** up. The time it happened it was vibrating like **** and once I gave it gas to get back home, i can obviously hear things like metal inside...

i dont wanna start it up yet though, kinda scared. i'll see after today since I have exams to worry about first.

mortificationrock

First of all I have a JDM D15B Vtec engine and from what I know the spark plug is ZFR6J-11 not ZFR6F-11 you got the wrong spark plug! Also I know this though good luck finding that **** here in cali its hard for me to find that spark plug!ZFR6J-11 is not a common plug in auto stores here.Check your cam cover if it has that number you put then that aint its cover!Anyone who has the D15B can tell you this.Double check your cam cover if not believe me when I say you got the wrong spark plugs.

adobospoon

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mortificationrock &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">First of all I have a JDM D15B Vtec engine and from what I know the spark plug is ZFR6J-11 not ZFR6F-11 you got the wrong spark plug! Also I know this though good luck finding that **** here in cali its hard for me to find that spark plug!ZFR6J-11 is not a common plug in auto stores here.Check your cam cover if it has that number you put then that aint its cover!Anyone who has the D15B can tell you this.Double check your cam cover if not believe me when I say you got the wrong spark plugs. </TD></TR></TABLE>

+1

radeonboy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mortificationrock &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">First of all I have a JDM D15B Vtec engine and from what I know the spark plug is ZFR6J-11 not ZFR6F-11 you got the wrong spark plug! Also I know this though good luck finding that **** here in cali its hard for me to find that spark plug!ZFR6J-11 is not a common plug in auto stores here.Check your cam cover if it has that number you put then that aint its cover!Anyone who has the D15B can tell you this.Double check your cam cover if not believe me when I say you got the wrong spark plugs. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Damnit! You are right. I just checked and it says J not F. I don't know wtf i was thinking.

But seriously listen to this. I don't it has anything to do with the plugs because...

1. I ran these past ZFR6F-11's for over 35,000KM with no problems.
2. ZFR5F-11 are the ones on the USDM D15B7 engine. 6F is just a colder range...and its for the basically same engine.
3. Supposedly these can be run on Preludes, Del Sols, and others....
4. The cover says long reach. These fall under "long reach".

Seriously I don't think its these plugs. Now I know there is a possibility that it could have caused this, but how come it didnt mess up 35,000KM ago?

Car still starts, its just running in like 3 cylinders and vibrates.........

adobospoon

well as of right now i'm running the ZFR6F-11 right now.
No problems at all. I doubt it could be the plugs that damage your internals.

B18C5-EH2

ZFR J/F whatever doesn't make a difference here.

I'd bet something was dropped into the spark plug hole while the plug was out, and you were just lucky enough that the foreign object didn't smash into the plug when you first started the engine.

Another possibility is that somewhere along the line that spark plug was dropped and the shock could have cracked the porcelin and once it was stressed enough (engine running/vibrations, etc.) it felkl apart and then its own pieces smashed into the rest of the plug every time the piston hit TDC.

radeonboy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ZFR J/F whatever doesn't make a difference here.

I'd bet something was dropped into the spark plug hole while the plug was out, and you were just lucky enough that the foreign object didn't smash into the plug when you first started the engine.

Another possibility is that somewhere along the line that spark plug was dropped and the shock could have cracked the porcelin and once it was stressed enough (engine running/vibrations, etc.) it felkl apart and then its own pieces smashed into the rest of the plug every time the piston hit TDC.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm so confused since what could have possibly fell inside? I didn't drop anything inside. The only thing I did was blow some dirt that was around the threaded area inside before I put new ones in.

MonkeyBoy668

Ultimately until you pull the head you're not going to know what is in that cylinder. All you know for sure at this point is that there was physical contact made when that piston was at TDC. And whatever caused that contact is still in that cylinder.

I don't think anyone's accusing you of anything, just relating their experiences as to what's most likely to have been occupying that space.

FWIW, I wish you luck.

vrrodri

Never blow air around an open hole!! Always cover the hole first.

ejoner

Don't mean to thread jack, but by the sound of this the d16z6 plugs and the d15b plugs are different, Ive been using the d16z6 plugs in my d15b for at least 1k miles. Should I change them? Thanks ejoner.

radeonboy

it wasnt open...the old plugs were still in there. there was some dirt around it, so i blew it out with my breath...

i'll let you guys know what happens when i get to it. im waiting for my dad to take lead, and my uncle who is a mechanic on the side will probably hear this before anything gets done...lol

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vrrodri &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Never blow air around an open hole!! Always cover the hole first.</TD></TR></TABLE>

radeonboy

Can you guys give me a guide on how to get to the bottom end?

What stuff do I remove first to get down to the bottom end? If you can give it in steps, it'll be helpful

projectTeG

was the old plug broke off?

i suggest buying the old spark plugs and testing them out.

radeonboy

I have the old ones. They are the same brand and model number of the new plugs. NGK ZFR6F-11.

This is not a question about spark plugs anymore. Ive driven on these old spark plugs for 35,000KM and many people on D-series said its already proven that these plugs can be used.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by projectTeG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">was the old plug broke off?

i suggest buying the old spark plugs and testing them out.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Modified by radeonboy at 11:10 AM 10/20/2007

cbustuner

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by radeonboy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Can you guys give me a guide on how to get to the bottom end?

What stuff do I remove first to get down to the bottom end? If you can give it in steps, it'll be helpful</TD></TR></TABLE>

make sure the motor is at tdc
mark the timing belt & cam gear with a marker and slip it off
drain the fluids (oil+ coolant)
undo any wiring
undo any coolant hoses
undo the exhaust manifold
On the underisde of the intake manifold there is a brace.Remove it.
remove spark plug wires and plugs (dizzy optional)
remove valve cover
undo the headstuds
remove head


You don't have to do it in that particular order.you don't have to leave the intake manifold on either but i always do.Your going to need a new headgasket once you remove the head.Grab a helms or download one so you can get the head stud removeal and torque pattern.

radeonboy

Okay Im gonna post up pics soon in a few minutes. I'll let you guys help diagnose what we should do next. Really didnt see much problems except these shards of metal or something. That is all we can see. Dunno how to check the rods, etc.

radeonboy

Okay these are the pictures of what we found when we removed the head and IM. We were welcomed with 3 bits on top the rightmost piston. Actual piston seems like there are no cracks.

My dad was like hoping this is all the problem. What can you guys get out of these pics?

We checked the valves under the head and there is no cracks or signs of something broken too...







Modified by radeonboy at 1:19 PM 10/20/2007

blk94ex

might just be me but it looks like piston #1 is a lil bit chewed up.