kyle h.

del sol d16z6 turbo

shorted the horn wires together, blew a horn fuse, tried to use the ostrich to tune a new map.

solid cel no start. no power to the fuel pump, no spark, checked all fuses and main relay. all are good.

I have no diagram of what the fuses are for inside the car, the cover is missing. does anyone have a picture?

I thought I messed up the ecu, so I bought a new one. Same problem with new ecu.

there are no codes, just a solid cel.

Think it's another bad computer? I have a hard time believing it's the computer, because both ecus give me the same issue, and I wouldn't have done anything to blow the ecu.

btw, I have an BS in EE.

integraXTC

you said you checked all fuses, but I'm gonna say it anyway.

I had this on my car awhile back it was a 15A ASG amp (I think that's what the diagram on the fuse cover read)

Relic1

what are you using to tune? Uberdata/Crome/Hondata/etc
did you remove the check sum routine before loading the program into the Ostrich?

everything other than the blown fuse on the horn can be accountable from a bad program in the Ostrich.

Cut/remove J1 and try to start the car again. If the solid CEL goes away it's the program. If it doesn't your ECU is gone. It's time to dig into the car for the problem.

since you have a BSEE rip the case open, keep one hand on the case to prevent ESD issues and check it out, if something is burnt you know what it smells/looks like.

kyle h.

im using uberdata, it's got nothing to do with that or the rom, i already cut the jumper and got a new ecu. same problem.

Like I said I can't believe that it's the computer again. I read something about a capacitor that burns in them, and mine are both still in tact.

I tested the main relay and fuel pump through it, I see on the circuit diagram that electromechanical switch for the fuel pump is grounded throught the computer, so the ecu has control over the fuel pump.

Havn't really tested to see if the ecu is getting power, I assume it must be if the main relay is working.

I just hope this guy didn't sell me a dead computer, p28s arn't as cheap as pm6's

johnnylaw

yeah that 15A backup fuse under the hood can kick your @$$ sometimes...lol

1995Ex_Sedan

Yes, check that fuse under the hood, The ECU fuse.

kyle h.

that was the first thing I did.

you guys must take me for an idiot?

1995Ex_Sedan

No no. Just alot of retarded people on here usually. No worries.

kyle h.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1369023

picture of fuse locations.

hondapwr

More dumb questions for you:
Did you short the CEL code wires to check for codes? (The CEL won't blink codes until you do)

Have you tried unplugging all non-critical systems? (AC, VSS, PS, etc?) Do you have OBD1 pinout diagrams?

Does the car turn over or do anything when you turn the key? (Can you hear the fuel pump?)

This site has a boatload of diagrams that might help you:
http://www.ff-squad.com/technet/

95DxSi-R2

Wont start- crank no start or no crank no start
no spark-controlled by pcm
no fuel-you say you have no power at the pump? have you tried jumpering the relay and see if it primes?
you've already done a pcm, and i have yet to get a pcm that already has a fault.
so i would rule that out for now.
Solid cel, does this mean your check engine light is lit? or you have tried jumpering the cel connector, and it's fu*ked up somehow?
I would check the coil control circuit with a test light and make sure it's blinking.
Jumper the fuel pump relay and see if the pump turns on
No start doesn't mean sh*t right now. you have no fuel and spark.

kyle h.

again, I have a bsee. I have already jumped the fuel pump, the fuel pump turns on. I have jumped the diagnostic plug, solid cel. car cranks fine. all electrical systems are working properly.

usually solid cel, when jumped means computer is toast.

if you still think i'm an idiot, I have a walbro pump, it's in a del sol, it's loud, I jumped power to the pump through the main relay harness and it kicks on. it is not coming on when the key is turned. the main relay tests out ok, so the only other thing missing to turn on the pump is the computer ground on the switch at the main relay harness, which I am apparently not getting.

I am pretty sure that the "new" computer is DOA, but I was hoping that you guys might tell me dance or magic trick that might get the car running.

95DxSi-R2

i am deff. not telling you your stupied.did you check power and grounds at the comp.

kyle h.

I have. It's grounded, hard to say if it gets power. anyone have a p28 pinout? I havn't looked/tested at the computer very much, because I wanted to believe that it wasn't the problem

Relic1

just because you have a BSEE doesn't neccesarily mean you know what you're doing. I work with 100+ people that have them too, and I'd bet 75% of them wouldn't know how to change their oil much less diagnose a wiring problem in their car.

pick up the Helm manual, it will tell you how everything is wired in detail. (the service manual is pointless for wiring issues, pick up the Electrical Troubleshooting Manual)

to try to help before you pick on up...
what has been changed in the car?
why did you short the horn wires together?
did you replace the horn fuse under the hood?

kyle h.

I was replacing the horn. When I was feeding the wiring back down through the body, they both shorted againsts ground. blew the fuse, replaced the fuse.

hondapwr (joe) came over tonight and helped me out. he brought a known working ecu. same issue. So we again checked out the main relay side of things. Found out I'm only getting 1v from the ignition switch, to power up the relay.

After he left I put the relay back in, and turn the key (to ignition) and the relay does not power up, I hear no clicking, feel no movement from the coils. So I'm not getting power to the main relay to turn on the computer/fuel pump.

Something between the relay and ignition switch? I'm going to search for more info and diagrams on the circuit between the two.

hondapwr brought me an awesome diagram over, which helped to narrow it down to this. Problem is, I keep second guessing myself.

and you're right, having a bsee doesnt mean ****, but most people are asking redundant questions. I was just trying to get the point across that I've tried the basics, and know what I am doing electronically.

kyle h.

p.s. I get constant power to the relay, but no power to switch on the coils.

kyle h.

It seems so much like a fuse is gone. but the del sol doesnt seem to have the alt fuse like most other or a fuse tied into the main relay. are there any?

I have checked all the fuses, but the diagram Im using doesnt specify any for the pump, relay, or alt. I would like to replace them anyway...but I dont see them.

kyle h.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Relic1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">blk/yel - 12V in run or crank
blk - ground
yel/wht - constant 12V
yel/blk - ignition output (12V in run/crank)
blu/wht - 12 in crank
grn/yel - fuel pump control from ECU (ground when pump is on)
yel/grn - fuel pump output (12V when pump is on) </TD></TR></TABLE>

that quote is from another thread. Just adding it to this one. may come in handy.

Relic1

I was looking for that list....

this may help you a little too.
http://www.b18c5eg.com/images/...m.jpg

hondapwr

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kyle h. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Found out I'm only getting 1v from the ignition switch, to power up the relay.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Does anyone know how much voltage the relay should be getting in the 93-95 Del Sol from the ignition switch? I think this might be the key.

I looked at my 96 Helms manual and found 3 things that might interfere with starting the car.
-starter cut relay
-interlock control unit
-pgm-fi main relay

Also, be careful not to trip the SRS and get an airbag in the face if you decide to dissasemble the steering column to check the ignition switch.

95DxSi-R2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kyle h. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">p.s. I get constant power to the relay, but no power to switch on the coils.</TD></TR></TABLE>
30,87a,87,86,85 or 1,2,3,4,5 which one do u have power at?, do u know how to jumper a relay?

kyle h.

I have tested the relay, it's not a standard auto relay, so the terminals arn't 30,87a,87,86,85

I've found an internal diagram of the honda main relay on honda-tech and have been using it, the relay works.

can the alternator or igniter cause a no start, no fuel pump power condition?

kyle h.

i will figure this out tonight.

just need more beer.

95DxSi-R2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kyle h. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have tested the relay, it's not a standard auto relay, so the terminals arn't 30,87a,87,86,85
So it's 1,2,3,4,5?


can the alternator or igniter cause a no start, no fuel pump power condition?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Alternator-no, igniter-yes, fuel pump-yes
You have 12v on the switch side and 12v on the coil side (main) with the key at acc., you said you have 1v? check the igntion switch connector for voltage to the switch, i will e-mail u a diagram cause i don't know how to post pics without paying for them.