Why is ls turbo faster than gsr turbo?
03-20-2004, 09:44 PM
#1
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Garden Grove 714 Orange County, CA, USA
Posts: 4,933
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why is ls turbo faster than gsr turbo?
Thats the thing i dont get...the majority of the people i ask...they tell me ls turbo is faster than gsr turbo. Shouldnt vtec+turbo pull on high end w/ the gsr than that of the torque+turbo on the ls?
Please somebody have this explained to me, cus im confused as hell.
Please somebody have this explained to me, cus im confused as hell.
03-20-2004, 09:47 PM
#2
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Detroit, mi, usa
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Why is ls turbo faster than gsr turbo? (trooper0641)
out of the box the ls can handle more boost because of its stock low compression, but a well built GSR vs a well built LS the GSR will net more power.
03-20-2004, 10:16 PM
#4
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Around, VA, USA
Posts: 2,461
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Why is ls turbo faster than gsr turbo? (IDriveAHonda)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IDriveAHonda »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">People also like to push LS motors because they're cheap to replace.</TD></TR></TABLE>
reason i opted for an ls teg...i've seen ls longblocks go for as low as 250...
reason i opted for an ls teg...i've seen ls longblocks go for as low as 250...
03-20-2004, 10:16 PM
#5
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Garden Grove 714 Orange County, CA, USA
Posts: 4,933
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Why is ls turbo faster than gsr turbo? (b16aEGcivic)
yes low compression being one of the advantages of ls...but that still doesnt explain why the gsr vtec turbo cant over take a ls turbo.
03-20-2004, 10:18 PM
#7
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Garden Grove 714 Orange County, CA, USA
Posts: 4,933
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Why is ls turbo faster than gsr turbo? (bad93ex)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bad93ex »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Doesn't the LS have a little more torque? Torque = teh win. 
</TD></TR></TABLE>
yes torque...but what about the gsr vtec turbo? shouldnt the vtec help rev the turbo all the way to redline easier?
</TD></TR></TABLE>yes torque...but what about the gsr vtec turbo? shouldnt the vtec help rev the turbo all the way to redline easier?
Trending Topics
03-20-2004, 10:25 PM
#8
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Why is ls turbo faster than gsr turbo? (trooper0641)
i'm pretty sure turbo b18c's lay down more power at the same psi as a turbo b18b with a similar setup. That only makes sense anyways.
03-20-2004, 10:29 PM
#9
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: west palm beach, FL, usa
Posts: 356
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Why is ls turbo faster than gsr turbo? (trooper0641)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by trooper0641 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yes low compression being one of the advantages of ls...but that still doesnt explain why the gsr vtec turbo cant over take a ls turbo.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Like he said LS lower compression so the more boost it can handle stock!
That should explain it all! GSR higher compression so it cant handle as much stock!
Like he said LS lower compression so the more boost it can handle stock!
That should explain it all! GSR higher compression so it cant handle as much stock!
03-20-2004, 10:43 PM
#10
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Toronto, Canada currently residing in ATL, GA, USA
Posts: 4,675
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Why is ls turbo faster than gsr turbo? (civicHBphtride)
LS can handle more boost but they have to boost more to make what a GSR makes on the same PSI. 10 lbs of boost on a GSR will rape 10 lbs of boost on a LS.
Id take a GSR turbo over an LS anyday
Id take a GSR turbo over an LS anyday
03-20-2004, 10:46 PM
#11
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Why is ls turbo faster than gsr turbo? (b16aEGcivic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b16aEGcivic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">out of the box the ls can handle more boost because of its stock low compression, but a well built GSR vs a well built LS the GSR will net more power.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ditto....well said, end of story.
Ditto....well said, end of story.
03-21-2004, 12:44 AM
#13
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: CA, USA
Posts: 1,295
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Why is ls turbo faster than gsr turbo? (KURRRWA)
ok. let's take 2 integras.
1 LS, 1 GSR.
lets say both are turbocharged. Which one will be faster?
you can't tell... you need to take a lot of factors when you look into this.
how each motor is built, what compression ratio the two are running, what kind of fuel management is in tact, how much boost.. etc.
lemme juss take this example. Let's say you build the baddest GSR Turbo motor ever.. You'd have to change the internals to lower compression pistons (slightly lower) to handle big boost, fuel tune this, blah blah.. yada yada.
either way you'd end up with like 400WHP and so and so torque (like cheesefrog).
you'd have to lose VTEC in the long run, because it's soo difficult to tune with such high power anyways.. so what would be the point of buying a VTEC motor to get big #'s if you're gonna disable vtec later on anyways??
in this case, the LS would be better for building up .
ok, lets take a different example.. lets say you got an LS and GSR, again.
but the two are going to be turbocharged with a pretty basic turbo set up (no real block build - up.. juss what's standard for a decent, reliable-enough, turbo Acura)
you would just add some kit (turbo header, charger, boost controller, etc..) without any new pistons/rings, etc.. you would dyno tune the kit after installation to yield the best #'s with a mild boost setting (7-8psi). just the bare necesities to get you started.
in this case, you would be able to take advantage of the GSR's higher compression (higher compression = more power .. even when turboing), and high HP platform (For a b-series).
the GSR would end up making more power in this way, because you can keep the pistons, and the VTEC, and wouldn't have to do any major changes.
Forgive me, Flame me, if i have said anything incorrect..
But it all depends on what the power goal is (or the car's goal too; drag, race,etc)
Damn i babble alot
if both the LS and GSR were turbocharged in this similar way
1 LS, 1 GSR.
lets say both are turbocharged. Which one will be faster?
you can't tell... you need to take a lot of factors when you look into this.
how each motor is built, what compression ratio the two are running, what kind of fuel management is in tact, how much boost.. etc.
lemme juss take this example. Let's say you build the baddest GSR Turbo motor ever.. You'd have to change the internals to lower compression pistons (slightly lower) to handle big boost, fuel tune this, blah blah.. yada yada.
either way you'd end up with like 400WHP and so and so torque (like cheesefrog).
you'd have to lose VTEC in the long run, because it's soo difficult to tune with such high power anyways.. so what would be the point of buying a VTEC motor to get big #'s if you're gonna disable vtec later on anyways??
in this case, the LS would be better for building up .
ok, lets take a different example.. lets say you got an LS and GSR, again.
but the two are going to be turbocharged with a pretty basic turbo set up (no real block build - up.. juss what's standard for a decent, reliable-enough, turbo Acura)
you would just add some kit (turbo header, charger, boost controller, etc..) without any new pistons/rings, etc.. you would dyno tune the kit after installation to yield the best #'s with a mild boost setting (7-8psi). just the bare necesities to get you started.
in this case, you would be able to take advantage of the GSR's higher compression (higher compression = more power .. even when turboing), and high HP platform (For a b-series).
the GSR would end up making more power in this way, because you can keep the pistons, and the VTEC, and wouldn't have to do any major changes.
Forgive me, Flame me, if i have said anything incorrect..
But it all depends on what the power goal is (or the car's goal too; drag, race,etc)
Damn i babble alot
if both the LS and GSR were turbocharged in this similar way
03-21-2004, 12:50 AM
#14
Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: usa
Posts: 3,528
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Why is ls turbo faster than gsr turbo? (Apex i ITR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Apex i ITR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">LS can handle more boost but they have to boost more to make what a GSR makes on the same PSI. 10 lbs of boost on a GSR will rape 10 lbs of boost on a LS.
Id take a GSR turbo over an LS anyday</TD></TR></TABLE>
thank you.
more compression + less boost = less compression + more boost.
the ls does have slightly more displacement over the gsr, but you don't have teh mad vtech y0. not to mention the gearing.
Id take a GSR turbo over an LS anyday</TD></TR></TABLE>
thank you.
more compression + less boost = less compression + more boost.the ls does have slightly more displacement over the gsr, but you don't have teh mad vtech y0. not to mention the gearing.
03-21-2004, 01:43 AM
#15
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Why is ls turbo faster than gsr turbo? (KURRRWA)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KURRRWA »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ls = cheap
longer gears are better when youre turbo too...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Longer gears ALWAYS hurt acceleration.
longer gears are better when youre turbo too...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Longer gears ALWAYS hurt acceleration.
03-21-2004, 03:40 AM
#16
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Posts: 347
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Why is ls turbo faster than gsr turbo? (trooper0641)
would the fact that an ls tranny has larger gears factor in? longer gears, more time for turbo.
03-21-2004, 06:26 AM
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
vtec happens when sometehin somethin the cams move and allow greater amounts of air in and (less)?? air out. Since your **** is retarded because of detonation, I think vtec and detonation sort of yield to each other. and all hte confusion just causes power problems. That would be my guess, I'm sorry it's hard to understand, I can't seem to put words on it.
03-21-2004, 06:32 AM
#18
be professional
Re: Why is ls turbo faster than gsr turbo? (OpTiX619)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by OpTiX619 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">longer gears, more time for turbo.</TD></TR></TABLE>
No . . . longer gears, slower acceleration.
No . . . longer gears, slower acceleration.
03-21-2004, 06:34 AM
#19
Former Moderator
Re: Why is ls turbo faster than gsr turbo? (trooper0641)
I cannot stand reading the "longer gears is better for turbo" **** on here every day.
This would only apply if you're making sick whp numbers well over 400 or so.
I had a friend with a boosted 250whp 00 Civic Si coupe. He got an LS tranny because everyone said it'd be sooo awesome for turbo. He went to the strip and ran slower than he did with a B16A tranny because the LS gearing was just too long.
He blew up the LS tranny and got a GS-R tranny with slightly shorter gearing and a shorter 4.400 FD as opposed to the LS shitbox 4.26FD.
Guess what?
His car ran better 1/4 mile times with the GS-R tranny.
He said the only thing the LS was good for was all-out top speed runs.
As far as this topic goes, it's another one of those huge misconceptions people in the Hobda world have. I still read lame **** like "VTEC+Turbo = cancelled out VTEC."
WTF is that crap?
FACT:
A B18C1 on the same 8psi with the exact same turbo set-up will make MORE power than the exact ame set-up and boost on a B18B engine.
The head on the GS-R flows better, and it starts out woth a good old 20-25whp advantage.
Also the CR on a B18C1 is still only 10:1. Sure it's not *ideal* for turbo, but it's nor impossible either. The LS does have the lower 9.2:1CR, but really all this means is that you MUST make more boost just to make the same amount of power that a GS-R motor would be making.
I'll see how this topic swings, but more than likely it will end up in the Forced Induction forum where it really belongs.
This would only apply if you're making sick whp numbers well over 400 or so.
I had a friend with a boosted 250whp 00 Civic Si coupe. He got an LS tranny because everyone said it'd be sooo awesome for turbo. He went to the strip and ran slower than he did with a B16A tranny because the LS gearing was just too long.
He blew up the LS tranny and got a GS-R tranny with slightly shorter gearing and a shorter 4.400 FD as opposed to the LS shitbox 4.26FD.
Guess what?
His car ran better 1/4 mile times with the GS-R tranny.
He said the only thing the LS was good for was all-out top speed runs.
As far as this topic goes, it's another one of those huge misconceptions people in the Hobda world have. I still read lame **** like "VTEC+Turbo = cancelled out VTEC."
WTF is that crap?
FACT:
A B18C1 on the same 8psi with the exact same turbo set-up will make MORE power than the exact ame set-up and boost on a B18B engine.
The head on the GS-R flows better, and it starts out woth a good old 20-25whp advantage.
Also the CR on a B18C1 is still only 10:1. Sure it's not *ideal* for turbo, but it's nor impossible either. The LS does have the lower 9.2:1CR, but really all this means is that you MUST make more boost just to make the same amount of power that a GS-R motor would be making.
I'll see how this topic swings, but more than likely it will end up in the Forced Induction forum where it really belongs.
03-21-2004, 06:54 AM
#21
be professional
Re: Why is ls turbo faster than gsr turbo? (B18C5-EH2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bad93ex »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Doesn't the LS have a little more torque? Torque = teh win. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Um, no.
If I have 100 lb-ft of torque and 250hp, while you have 250 lb-ft of torque and 100hp, and our cars are otherwise equivalent, who is going to win?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As far as this topic goes, it's another one of those huge misconceptions people in the Hobda world have. I still read lame **** like "VTEC+Turbo = cancelled out VTEC."
WTF is that crap?</TD></TR></TABLE>
My thoughts exactly.
The GSR engine has an extra 1200 RPM at the end of its rev range. With the common knowledge that horsepower = (torque * RPM)/5252, it only makes sense that the GSR would make more horsepower than the LS with equivalent setups. The higher you rev while maintaining a usable torque curve, the more power you're going to make. 8000 RPM > 6800 RPM.
The GSR has a shorter geared transmission, which means faster acceleration period, unless you're making so mouch torque that you're spinning your wheels the entire way down the drag strip and need the longer gearing to combat wheelspin.
Add on the fact that the GSR has higher compression and will thus make more power with less boost when tuned properly, and all this "LS will be faster" crap just sounds like faulty ricer logic.
The only reason I'd go with an LS engine over the GSR is because they're far cheaper to initially buy (and later replace), and are easier to tune with the lower compression.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Um, no.
If I have 100 lb-ft of torque and 250hp, while you have 250 lb-ft of torque and 100hp, and our cars are otherwise equivalent, who is going to win?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As far as this topic goes, it's another one of those huge misconceptions people in the Hobda world have. I still read lame **** like "VTEC+Turbo = cancelled out VTEC."
WTF is that crap?</TD></TR></TABLE>
My thoughts exactly.
The GSR engine has an extra 1200 RPM at the end of its rev range. With the common knowledge that horsepower = (torque * RPM)/5252, it only makes sense that the GSR would make more horsepower than the LS with equivalent setups. The higher you rev while maintaining a usable torque curve, the more power you're going to make. 8000 RPM > 6800 RPM.
The GSR has a shorter geared transmission, which means faster acceleration period, unless you're making so mouch torque that you're spinning your wheels the entire way down the drag strip and need the longer gearing to combat wheelspin.
Add on the fact that the GSR has higher compression and will thus make more power with less boost when tuned properly, and all this "LS will be faster" crap just sounds like faulty ricer logic.
The only reason I'd go with an LS engine over the GSR is because they're far cheaper to initially buy (and later replace), and are easier to tune with the lower compression.
03-21-2004, 07:06 AM
#22
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: MD, USA
Posts: 938
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
iu dont know why people always think ls motors have more tourqe than gsr motors.
please correct me if im wrong but....
ls motor: 127lb-ft
gsr motor: 128lb-ft
type r motor: 130lb-ft
please correct me if im wrong but....
ls motor: 127lb-ft
gsr motor: 128lb-ft
type r motor: 130lb-ft
03-21-2004, 07:32 AM
#24
Former Moderator
Re: (SleepnCiViC)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SleepnCiViC »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">iu dont know why people always think ls motors have more tourqe than gsr motors.
please correct me if im wrong but....
ls motor: 127lb-ft
gsr motor: 128lb-ft
type r motor: 130lb-ft</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well it's the torque across the entire pm range that the B18B1 is known for. They do have more low-end grunt than the B18C1, but it's nothing to go apeshit over IMO.
Funny thing about those specs is that my B18C5 pulled 130ft-lbs. of torque to the wheels with i/h/e and V-AFC/FPR tuning.
please correct me if im wrong but....
ls motor: 127lb-ft
gsr motor: 128lb-ft
type r motor: 130lb-ft</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well it's the torque across the entire pm range that the B18B1 is known for. They do have more low-end grunt than the B18C1, but it's nothing to go apeshit over IMO.
Funny thing about those specs is that my B18C5 pulled 130ft-lbs. of torque to the wheels with i/h/e and V-AFC/FPR tuning.
03-21-2004, 07:34 AM
#25
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Why is ls turbo faster than gsr turbo? (civicHBphtride)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civicHBphtride »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Like he said LS lower compression so the more boost it can handle stock!
That should explain it all! GSR higher compression so it cant handle as much stock!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Some people prefer higher compression and lower boost, I'm one of them. The GSR's head flows better and pulls higher. Take an LS and GSR resleeve them and put forged internals, tell me who's gonna make more. The LS is just a good turbo motor, it's cheap, has low compression, and is a DOHC motor.
Like he said LS lower compression so the more boost it can handle stock!
That should explain it all! GSR higher compression so it cant handle as much stock!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Some people prefer higher compression and lower boost, I'm one of them. The GSR's head flows better and pulls higher. Take an LS and GSR resleeve them and put forged internals, tell me who's gonna make more. The LS is just a good turbo motor, it's cheap, has low compression, and is a DOHC motor.