H2on0da3

I've got a d16y8 right now and it just isn't getting the job done. I was considering two roads, a b18c5 complete swap or a hybrid turbo set up with a gen. I dsm turbo leading the way. If anyone has any experience with either of these routes or info, I'm all ears. Just looking for suggestions/ opinions.

Heylookits shawn

hit the little search button in the top righthand corner, an abundance of information awaits you


and since im not doing anything at the moment, ill help you out a little.

a complete type r swap will cost you an arm and a leg, for around the same price or even less, you could build up a d series and be pushing around 250 hp. not a d series ninja myself but there have been countless people making decent power on sohc's

H2on0da3

Thanx that's most helpful.

gigabit

A B18C5 swap will prolly run over $5K for just the motor swap and will net you about 180whp. Same amount spent on a Y8 turbo will net you about 270whp. Plus with the B18C5, you will have alot of various other items to build up, like a coil over kit to handle the weight of the B18, brake upgrade, etc etc.

If you are seriously considering a NA swap, then why not consider the K20 swap? It's prolly eaiser locate and cheaper to do the K20 over the B18C5 simply because there's more K20s out there than the ITR.

JDM_Ej

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gigabit &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A B18C5 swap will prolly run over $5K for just the motor swap and will net you about 180whp. Same amount spent on a Y8 turbo will net you about 270whp. Plus with the B18C5, you will have alot of various other items to build up, like a coil over kit to handle the weight of the B18, brake upgrade, etc etc.

If you are seriously considering a NA swap, then why not consider the K20 swap? It's prolly eaiser locate and cheaper to do the K20 over the B18C5 simply because there's more K20s out there than the ITR.</TD></TR></TABLE>

C5 will bolt in using stock everything. A K20 is a whole new project. Custom fuel lines, shifter cables, and radiator hoses... and thats just off the top of my head.

oo3

or just go inbetween and buy b18b or b18c and build up from there...for the money of a complete b18c5 you can buy a b18c or ls/vtec and use the rest for custom turbo. in my opinion it'd be more reliable with basic turbo settings than your y8.

then again, with that much money you can make your y8 withstand anything. but you could get more horsepower with b18c/lsvtec turbo hybrid.

Eaglekper0046

iTrader: (2)

For 5 grand for a ITR motor you can build a 300 hp y8 give or take a few hundred depends where you shop. K20's are bad ***, but it all depends on your budget.

allanonjj

hands down,... go with a stock ls and turbo it. If I had it to do all over again thats what I would do. There are SEVERAL ppl doing that and getting 250ish whp and still being reliable. Drag makes a good kit for around $2500,...its bolt on and they say the turbo is good for around 350 whp. I bought that same kit and put it in my eg (which is my d.d.) and am putting down right @ 300whp. I could boost it up a lil more but anything over that kinda power is wasted on a d.d. Thats just my opinion mind you but Ive driven a 480 whp ek on the street and ALL you do is spin till about 65mph. just my .02 worth

dohcdelsol93

I've seen some fast d-series turbo engines around my area but none of them have been put on a dyno. I've seen one in particlar in a DX that out ran a 5.0 mustang from a dead start. It was quick and would give a GSR turbo a run for it's money. However the tranny's of the D's are weaker than the B's and he shattered a differential probably from auto crossing. But with money you can remedy the problem with an aftermaket differential.
I've seen a few ITR turbos mainly at shows but IMO they have such a high compression that unless you don't mind only running low boost and having a really really great tune they're not worth it. The head and IM have a great flow but they we're designed from the factory to be a high comp N/A engine. I personally don't like to have FI system on an engine with more than a 10:1 comp ratio. The idea is that the less compression you have the more boost you can push on the engine (theoretically). You can make a higher compression engine last longer with higher amounts of boost but a ballanced crank, forged rods, and pistons will be needed to do this thus adding another 2k to your bill with machine work. Don't get me wrong they are fast but very costly. You buy a Type R engine for the B18C5 name.
The stock LS swap (@$1500 to 2,000)turboed is great for starts. Like the other guy said on the stk engine with boost they put out average @250ish hp. Later on you can upgrade to a better tranny like the gsr and forged internals. The ls turbo will put out tons of low end torque and with a proper engine build the possibilities of a 18psi LS would be limitless if you can find a way to keep traction. This could be accomplished with @ 8K under the hood.
If you were to get a GSR (@$3,500)swap and boost it you could be @300ish on hp on the stk engine with boost.
I personally don't like pre made turbo kits because they are so expensive(@$2400-300)and most of them use cheaper parts. I like to piece toghther a custom kit using the mani, turbo, and fmic of my choice. If you buy some used parts thru Ebay or H-T you'll usually come out with a cheaper set up. Just do lots or reseach before you just start buying parts or you'll end up filling you close up with stuff that you didn't really need or stuff left over because you changed your mind. I've seen kits pieced together for a D @ $1500 and for the B @$2,000. If your not in a rush and take your time doing it right the first time you'll usually run across some great deals on parts. Alot of people start buying all their turbo parts and then realize how expensive it is and have to sell everything off cheap, don't be one of those people.

allanonjj

He's right for the most part,... however the good thing about buying a complete kit is that you buy it FOR YOUR CAR/MOTOR SETUP. By doing this you are almost guaranteed an easy install,.. or at least easier than peicing it together. I agree that you can get a lil better deal by going with the afformentioned method but if you are new to boost, a kit is (IMO) the way to go.

highroller54

turbo b18c5 with aftermarket pistons and rods

dohcdelsol93

the hardest part I had with my custom kit was the custom intercooler and charge pipes. It took alot of cutting, marking, tacking, double checking, and the welding and re-welding. Luckily for me my father can weld or it would have cost me a pretty penny to have all the tight angles welded. It would have been much easier if I had a welder on site but the welder was at a plant @10 min from the car. If I had a spearco style FMIC it would have been easier but I chose an Evo front mount that made it a challenge.

boostatic

motor swaps are a waste of money in my opinion, but i guess its not a waste if u wanna spend it. i believe in modifying stock cuz i cant afford swaps and then boostin it. eventually u end up selling it anyway and so wuts the point. i'm a d-series believer. everyones hyped up about dohc's that no one believes in killer D's. i have a 94 coupe with a d16z6 boosted at 8 psi and i put down 217 to the wheels. stock fuel pump, stock regulator, stock rail, stock injectors, stock ignition. my air fuel ratio is fine. i hope to make 240whp at 10 pounds once i upgrade fuel and ignition but i'm guessin i'll make more than that probably more like 250. it all depends how much power u wanna make. u can make 300-350whp easily with a d16 with just pistons and rods internally. the type r motor will just end up blowin up most likely because of the compression. u can find parts for d-series all day. my initial goal was 250-300whp. but i'll be pretty close to that goal on the stock block, so i upped it to bout 350whp. it all depends on how much u wanna spend and how much power u want. i put my own kit together and got great power out of it. double stock at 8 psi aint bad at all

allanonjj

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boostatic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">motor swaps are a waste of money in my opinion, but i guess its not a waste if u wanna spend it. i believe in modifying stock cuz i cant afford swaps and then boostin it. eventually u end up selling it anyway and so wuts the point. i'm a d-series believer. everyones hyped up about dohc's that no one believes in killer D's. i have a 94 coupe with a d16z6 boosted at 8 psi and i put down 217 to the wheels. stock fuel pump, stock regulator, stock rail, stock injectors, stock ignition. my air fuel ratio is fine. i hope to make 240whp at 10 pounds once i upgrade fuel and ignition but i'm guessin i'll make more than that probably more like 250. it all depends how much power u wanna make. u can make 300-350whp easily with a d16 with just pistons and rods internally. the type r motor will just end up blowin up most likely because of the compression. u can find parts for d-series all day. my initial goal was 250-300whp. but i'll be pretty close to that goal on the stock block, so i upped it to bout 350whp. it all depends on how much u wanna spend and how much power u want. i put my own kit together and got great power out of it. double stock at 8 psi aint bad at all </TD></TR></TABLE>

OMG,.... ure joking right? I've heard a lot of guys that like to modify the d series motors bc its more of a challenge and bc you can get bragging rights for getting high hp #s (by high I mean anything over about 300whp) out of tiny displacement but for you to say that they are a waste of money is insane. If that was true then 90% of the Honda scene would be wasting their $$. I can totally understand if you dont have the budget for a swap,...and I'm by no means downing ANYONE for that,....I just dont beleive in hating on someone for putting $$ into their hobby/lifestyle if they can afford it. I also said earlier that too much over 300-350 whp in a civic is wasted (on the street) but NOT on the drag strip. YOU WILL NEVER SEE A 800WHP D SERIES MOTOR. Or at least Ive never seen one. Oh and if your puttin down over 200whp on stock rods,...you are running a ticking timebomb. Those rods WILL NOT handle more than 200whp for very long.

miguel5790

just buy a b16 and boost it.

Firstoost

^^Who needs 800hp? I own a turbo D running 210WHP on stock internals with Hondata and a pimp *** tune from redzone preformance. I'm not saying it's a waste of time for a swap, but realistically, for the majority of people who use these cars as their daily driver, don't want anything that will get them pulled over by the police. besides...in MOST cases..people get a b series motor and call it quits, less the bolt ons(I/H/E) For the budget, bragging rights, and enough WHP on stock internals to smoke a WRX, I'd say turbo D all the way. And boostatic..i don't see how you're getting 217 outta 8lbs..i'm running ten on A T3/TO4e and making 208 on a dynojet.

vtecmonster

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Firstoost &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">besides...in MOST cases..people get a b series motor and call it quits</TD></TR></TABLE> Not on Honda-Tech. Every person can somehow afford $10,000 motor setups.

mwieczorek43

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boostatic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">motor swaps are a waste of money in my opinion</TD></TR></TABLE>

Simply put... a built B will always out-perform an equally built d. NA or turbo.
So to say they're a waist, is silly. It just depends on your goals. allanonjj hit it on the head.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by allanonjj &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Oh and if your puttin down over 200whp on stock rods,...you are running a ticking timebomb. Those rods WILL NOT handle more than 200whp for very long.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Couldn't have said it better myself. We'll see how long 240 @10psi lasts... On top of that, 240 seems high for only 10psi on a d don't you think?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Firstoost &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">^^Who needs 800hp?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I do!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtecmonster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Every person can somehow afford $10,000 motor setups. </TD></TR></TABLE>

It goes something like this: Go to College. Get a degree. Get a career. Make goals. And start saving.

allanonjj

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mwieczorek43 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It goes something like this: Go to College. Get a degree. Get a career. Make goals. And start saving.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats classic!! lol Or you could live @ home tillyour thirty and eat ramen noodles everyday . My problem is that to make the $ neede to support my habit,...I mean hobby. I have to work 70 hrs a week making it hard to find time to enjoy it. But hell,... who needs sleep?

RTE117

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Firstoost &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> And boostatic..i don't see how you're getting 217 outta 8lbs..i'm running ten on A T3/TO4e and making 208 on a dynojet.</TD></TR></TABLE>

There are lots of variables that contribute to that; mainly tune, assuming you have very similar setups. Kid I work with has a T3/T04E as well on a 115K mile GS-R making 290 WHP on 9 lbs (that's mustang dyno BTW).

dohcdelsol93

@300hp on a GSR w/ low boost is normally what you see. I'm running 12psi on a built ls/vtec and hope to reach 350hp, I'll know the exact #'s Jan 21st.

The choice of turbo manifold, down pipe, and exhaust can also make a differnece in hp#'s.

.BigSexy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gigabit &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A B18C5 swap will prolly run over $5K for just the motor swap and will net you about 180whp. Same amount spent on a Y8 turbo will net you about 270whp. Plus with the B18C5, you will have alot of various other items to build up, like a coil over kit to handle the weight of the B18, brake upgrade, etc etc.

If you are seriously considering a NA swap, then why not consider the K20 swap? It's prolly eaiser locate and cheaper to do the K20 over the B18C5 simply because there's more K20s out there than the ITR.</TD></TR></TABLE>

haha...wow, why not go and look at hmotorsonline.com and tell me the price of a k20 and a c5 and get back to me, then the time and headache of installing it.

to the OP: turbo will be cheaper and net more power, but it all depends really, oh and it will not cost near 5k to build a good turbo setup

.BigSexy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by highroller54 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">turbo b18c5 with aftermarket pistons and rods </TD></TR></TABLE>

you got 8k? and the ITR swap is not made for boost

Firstoost

LOL @ the college, career comment. Not everyone has money FOR college, nor is everybody the right AGE for college. And even if they were...it's not like degrees come over night. But whatever. I'm just saying that this kid doesn't seem like he's gonna build his motor all the way up...It seems he just wants to fit in with the crowd of B owners or turbo D owners.

dohcdelsol93

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Firstoost &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">LOL @ the college, career comment. Not everyone has money FOR college, nor is everybody the right AGE for college. And even if they were...it's not like degrees come over night. But whatever. I'm just saying that this kid doesn't seem like he's gonna build his motor all the way up...It seems he just wants to fit in with the crowd of B owners or turbo D owners.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Isn't that the reason we all bought hondas, to fit in. I'm personally not going to college until I finish with my car.