jeffk182

So heres the deal, im planning on getting new camshafts prolly over summer, but im in sort of a delema. I was planning on getting the Skunk2 Stage 1 cams, because they are carb legal so I have a good feeling that they will smog. However, I was talking with one of my friends neighbors, and he says that the Skunk2's dump in a lot of fuel and starts to make power around 6k-approx 8k. He insists that I get the TODA cams. I was wondering, would either spec A or B pass smog? Or would I have to down tune the car to get it to pass? Also, what do you think is better, Spec A or Spec B? Any insight it appreciated..thanks.


Modified by jeffk182 at 1:34 AM 2/27/2005

nub.96ek

ALL my friends that use Toda cams say they wear out like crazy... they are made for racing. Find a cam that is more "streetable" - Buddy Club Spec #'s are good from what I hear and last a long while... this is all just opinion though.

jeffk182

Hrmm...any other opinions?

rodrez.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jeffk182 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> However, I was talking with one of my friends neighbors, and he says that the Skunk2's dump in a lot of fuel and starts to make power around 6k-approx 8k. He insists that I get the TODA cams. I was wondering, would either spec A or B pass smog? Or would I have to down tune the car to get it to pass? Also, what do you think is better, Spec A or Spec B? Any insight it appreciated..thanks.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Your friends neighbor doesn't seem to know what he's talking about.
The Skunk2 stage 1 cam is very mild, and starts making power earlier than 6k RPM. The stage2, will start making a noticeable power gain higher up. Also, cams don't add or "dump" fuel at any point.
For the Toda cams, spec A's are similar to stage 1's, in that they're mild. Spec B's are more aggressive, and are going to require more compression than the spec A's to see their true potential.
Regarding smog, I think any aftermarket cam is going to make it a little more difficult to pass, even if it's CARB exempt. Down tuning is going to be necessary in most cases.

sinister6

hehe, most after cams wear out crazy
as you cant control your right foot to "make power"
I would go for TODA VTEC Killer, but thats just me..(My civic is a track car now, not driving it most of the time in weekdays)

jeffk182

So spec A is like stage 1 of skunk2..hrmm. What would be a better application out of Spec A and B for daily use and also road race/autocross?

jeffk182

bump!

jeffk182

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sinister6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I would go for TODA VTEC Killer, but thats just me..(My civic is a track car now, not driving it most of the time in weekdays)</TD></TR></TABLE>

I will NEVER get rid of VTEC But im looking to find which would be a better application for me out of Spec A and B. I was looking at the Mugen valve springs..how are those?

rodrez.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jeffk182 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So spec A is like stage 1 of skunk2..hrmm. What would be a better application out of Spec A and B for daily use and also road race/autocross?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Compression, and other mods play a big role in what type of cams you should go with. If you have a very mild set up, the Spec A's are an excellent profile to step into. If you got a decent bump in compression, a good header/exhaust and something to tune with, the B's might be better suited for your set up. Everyones opinion of drivability is going to be different, but I've seen both used w/out issues in daily drivers before.

jeffk182

My current setup is:

HKS Hipower catback
DC 4-2-1 Stainless header
AEM Short Ram intake
BLOX racing intake manifold

Do you think Spec A or Spec B would be better suited for me? Im thinking of keeping stock compression.

sinister6

I think A suit you more since you got a 4-2-1 header and a short ram intake.

rodrez.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jeffk182 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My current setup is:

HKS Hipower catback
DC 4-2-1 Stainless header
AEM Short Ram intake
BLOX racing intake manifold

Do you think Spec A or Spec B would be better suited for me? Im thinking of keeping stock compression.</TD></TR></TABLE>

IMO, Spec A's would be better for you.

tcr03

ok, ive been looking into this also. if you dont plan on upgrading the valve train, you have to get the spec a/stage 1
the higher ones require you to get better valve springs and retainers.
so yes if i were you i would get the spec a. thats probly what im going to go with on my ls/vtec. and ive got pretty much the same upgrades that you have.
skunk 2 intake maifold
4-2-1 header
catback
short ram air intake
chipped ecu

jeffk182

Hrmmm icic. Im actually gonna replace the whole valvetrain and not just the cams. Im gonna throw in adjustable cam gears, cams, new valves, upgraded valve springs and Ti-retainers. I guess Spec A seems alright since I am keeping stock compression. Approx. how much of a power increase am I going to see?

jeffk182

BumP!

chad

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nub.96ek &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ALL my friends that use Toda cams say they wear out like crazy... they are made for racing. Find a cam that is more "streetable" - Buddy Club Spec #'s are good from what I hear and last a long while... this is all just opinion though.</TD></TR></TABLE>


WRONG.....38k on my toda b's....daily driven

if you get toda cams....GET TODA VALVE SPRINGS!!!!!!!!!

jeffk182

I was thinking of getting Mugen or Spoon valve springs...do the TODA valve springs work better?

Spade

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jeffk182 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was thinking of getting Mugen or Spoon valve springs...do the TODA valve springs work better?</TD></TR></TABLE>

&lt;----would never waste money on a "name" and that in my opinion is exactly what Toda is.

Personally, If I were to consider purchasing anything for my car the last thing I want is someone to make the decision for me.
Instead of asking "what cams do you guys want me to buy"

Ask: What are the specs on this cam and what other manufacturers out there make a cam with close to these specs.

Also, if you're unsure between A's and B's you need to research and see what they are going to do, find posts made by others that have DYNO proof that the cams actually produced the power increase that you're looking for.

jeffk182

Bump! Anyone have anymore insight?

jeffk182

TTT

Good ol' Screwtape

i'm sorry...did i miss the part where you told us what motor these are going into? I sort of just skimmed the thread, so sorry.

What motor are you dealing with here?

Del Sol SiR

iTrader: (2)

Design
The primary and secondary lobes are designed to be the same size. Overall construction of the cam has been heavily revised. With areas of stress,rigidity and weight all greatly benefiting. Normal cams are created from solid blanks, but the VTEC KILLER CAM is produced from a hollow blank, which not only reduces weight but also improves valve timing accuracy through a reduction in flexing. The cam is designed to bed in quickly and have a low wear rate.

Characteristics
The mid rocker cam is removed & both pins are changed, reducing the valve train mass for better response. Disabling the VTEC system removes fluctuations in the oil pressure system, securing a reliable oil feed to all the main moving components. Lost motion valve should be removed. For max performance, should be used in conjunction with TODA Sports Injection kit.

The kit comes complete with camshafts and special hardware needed to complete the conversion.



Three different intake and three different exhaust profiles are offered.

Type Duration (Lift mm)

Intake
285 12.0
295 12.0
305 12.0

Exhaust
285 11.5
295 11.5
305 11.5

RACING USE ONLY! Makes power from 5000rpm+
TODA dual valve springs are required for this kit. Using non-TODA valve springs may cause damage to the hollow camshafts.

http://todaracing.com/products....html

OR...



TODA Racing has been producing billet VTEC camshafts since 1994, longer than any other manufacturer. Years of experience with B16A and B18C engines have allowed TODA Racing to produce the best performing and most proven DOHC VTEC camshafts available.

TODA Racing uses the latest design and manufacturing technologies to produce their camshafts. All TODA parts are designed, tested, and manufactured using the IBM CATIA CAD/CAM/CAE system. This is the same system used by Honda, Boeing, Ferrari, Porsche, and other leading high technology manufacturers.

TODA Spec B & C camshafts have large primary and secondary lobes. This is a design pioneered by TODA over 6 years ago. Now our competition is copying this design feature. Imitation parts may look the same, but there’s one thing that can’t be copied, TODA quality and reliability.

Type Duration (Lift mm) Valve Springs Req. Price

SPEC A
IN 220 (6.0) - 290 (11.6) - 240 (9.0) Type-R* $460
EX 220 (5.5) - 280 (11.2) - 240 (8.5) Type-R* $460

SPEC B
IN 250 (11.0) - 295 (12.0) - 250 (11.0) TODA Valve Spring Kit $490
EX 250 (11.0) - 285 (12.0) - 250 (11.0) TODA Valve Spring Kit $490

SPEC C
IN 250 (11.0) - 295 (12.5) - 250 (11.0) TODA Valve Spring Kit $550
EX 250 (11.0) - 295 (12.5) - 250 (11.0) TODA Valve Spring Kit $550

*TECHNICAL NOTE
All TODA Racing camshafts must be tuned using TODA adjustable campulleys to attain maximum performance. Valve lash for all cams is 0.2mm cold. Spec B & C camshafts require TODA valve springs. For Spec A camshafts, the following Honda/Acura valvetrain components maybe used up to 8400rpm on both the intake and exhaust side.

VALVE SPRINGS-Inner :14751-P73-J01 x 16
VALVE SPRINGS-Outer: 14761-P73-J01 x 16
RETAINER: 14765-P30-000 x 16

With Spec A camshafts if engine will be operating beyond 8400rpm, TODA valve spring kit must be used. Using Spec C camshafts on engines with milled cylinder heads, thin head gaskets, or non TODA Racing high compression pistons may cause valve-to-piston clearance issues. For maximum performance, Spec C camshafts must be used with TODA high compression pistons and upgraded fuel injection system. Some aftermarket campulleys use connecting bolts that are not compatible with TODA camshafts. The use of these bolts could damage the TODA camshafts. If you plan to use TODA camshafts, we only recommend using TODA campulleys to prevent damage to the camshafts.

The TODA High Power Timing Belt is highly recommended when using Spec B and C camshafts.

http://todaracing.com/products....html

jeffk182

My bad, this is for a 2000 Si (B16A2)

jeffk182

Last bump!!

jeffk182

TTT