Eg6Slpur

Whats good...
Im making my d16z6 a sleeper.....Im trying to get to at least the 200 =Hp N/A..I know its hard but Im gonna do it...so here are a few questions

1. Will I benifit more by advancing my stock cam (since as the Vtec cam is designed for hig revs) and buying new valves+ a 3angle valve job or by buying a aftermarket cam with a medium duration and doing the same?

2. As to the intake manifold will buying a aftermarket manifold benifit me (i.e A skunk2 Im) or swapping a D16y8...what are the pros/cons?

3. what are the best size fuel injectors for this N/A application?

chads

start with a b16 or b18.

uNbrokeN

you want a sleeper?

put a h22, i/h/e, and leave the stock rims, (hubbys) no bodykits, no wings..

it will be less money + a daily driver and remember its still a stock honda motor so it will be good for gas
d16 with rebuilt motor to be fast = more money + gas mileage will suck..

Evs-One

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FlamencoEsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">start with a b16 or b18. </TD></TR></TABLE>

or be another sheep like this dude and go the easy way out...cockaroach

gloryhog

I think he said he wanted a d16z6 sleeper ,not a b18 sleeper . stick w/ it man dont let these no reading savs get you taking the easy way out .

splitime

If you really want a d16 sleeper at 200whp.... you are asking the wrong questions. A build of that sorts, is very extreme and isn't exactly an intro level engine build project.

I'd say you are looking at larger TB, Ported Manifold (y8 or better), head that is extremely ported/polished, entire valvetrain, custom very aggresive cam, redo the entire bottom end, bore it out to something beyond 1.6l, high compression, then a very nice header, port matched and exhaust matched to the systems needs......

In other words, doing a 200hp NA sleeper is um..... costly.

FAST AS

rebuild and turbo

B18C5-EH2

I don't care what you do, you will not make 200whp N/A with a D16Z6 and keep it streetable.

Not unless you get Bisi to build you a craxy-*** carb'd D engine.

Sorry but 200whp is 100% totally unrealistic for an N/A D16Z6. 200whp is almost impossible N/A for the B16A. Hell 200whp isn't all that easy for the B18C1/5 engines, or even B20/VTEC motors either.

Start by laying out a more realistic goal.

160whp.

You can get there with good compression, the right headwork, and cams along with a good header and engine management.

I'd try this:

12.5:1 CR - either get 1989 Integra P29 slugs and a metal head gasket, or get forged pistons
Shotpeened ZC rods or forged rods
Good headwork from the likes of ExoSpeed
Bisi or AN-R header
Y8 intake manfold or Edelbrock
Good cam from Exospeed
Cam gear
Good means of tuning - Hondata possibly

That should be god for at least 160whp if you dfo it the right way.

Also don't forget the tranny. SRR 4.929 final drive in a 1992-1995 Si or EX tranny would do the trick.

*EDIT*

If you could get a nice sleeved and bored block you could have a totally bad-*** 1.8L SOHC and take a lot of people by surprise.

RC_SKUBY

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't care what you do, you will not make 200whp N/A with a D16Z6 and keep it streetable.

Start by laying out a more realistic goal.

160whp.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed.

Dacalac

The best D-Series Thread....EVAR!

Eg6Slpur

Yeah I know...im not into the entry level crap....Im way passed the I/H/E stage which is where most stop ata entry but thanks for the info I found some more in the FAQ page and to the person who wrote the last response It can happen and be streetable....all it takes is research which is what im doing.....

liam821

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eg6Slpur &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah I know...im not into the entry level crap....Im way passed the I/H/E stage which is where most stop ata entry but thanks for the info I found some more in the FAQ page and to the person who wrote the last response It can happen and be streetable....all it takes is research which is what im doing..... </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yea it not gonna happened. hehe sorry dude..no way are you gonna hit 200whp all motor on a streetable sohc.

I used to have an all motor SOHC vtec race crx, with a full race JG pro series head, and a 308 duration cam (ie hella wild cam). It was around 13:1 compression. It could barly idle at 900rpms. It didnt even make 200whp..it was more like 170-180 maybe.

Here is a sound clip...notice the idle at the end?

http://liam821.com/sound/AllMotor-D15-vtec.mp3

Maybe you should think about forced injection?

liam

B18C5-EH2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eg6Slpur &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> and to the person who wrote the last response It can happen and be streetable....all it takes is research which is what im doing..... </TD></TR></TABLE>

Bullshit.

Prove it.

Saying it's possible means that it's been done, so show me one dyno of a streetable N/A D16Z6 with 200whp. I don't mean a full race Bisi or Jay Yuson dyno, but a streetable engine in a car driven on the street.

The ball is in your court.

You think I just posted that to "hate" on the SOHC? Hell no. I love the SOHC and I own one as well as some swaps, so don't think I'm not aware of the limits on streetable SOHC engines.

liam821

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Prove it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Id like to see that too....

Jimmy

iTrader: (5)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by liam821 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yea it not gonna happened. hehe sorry dude..no way are you gonna hit 200whp all motor on a streetable sohc.

I used to have an all motor SOHC vtec race crx, with a full race JG pro series head, and a 308 duration cam (ie hella wild cam). It was around 13:1 compression. It could barly idle at 900rpms. It didnt even make 200whp..it was more like 170-180 maybe.

Here is a sound clip...notice the idle at the end?

http://liam821.com/sound/AllMotor-D15-vtec.mp3

Maybe you should think about forced injection?

liam</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yea forced induction will do the trick
Goodluck with hitting 200 whp in a d-series.

RC_SKUBY

A all-motor z6 with 200 hp... possible, with a *** load of money invested
A all-motor z6 with 200 hp and street driven..... id like to see it

Debaser

I'm not gonna hold my breath on this one.

lohatch

just judging from the questions you asked i think it will be kind of hard for you to hit those numbers. there has been a lot of controversy about the z6 vs y8 IM which should be accessable though searching. i would say you are going to want to go with a aftermarket IM as well as valvetrain with some porting, and i agree with the people above that a goal of 160 is much more realistic. i would boost it. good luck with whatever you decide to do but 200 will be hard to hit

Ricey McRicerton

Check this thread out I made way back when. This could possibly be a road to closer to 200.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=523972

Ronin Panda

yea its gonna take alot more to get to 200 hp with what you stated you wanted to do...to answer your questions get a b16..it will probally cost as much as what you do the the d16z6 anyways

chad

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't care what you do, you will not make 200whp N/A with a D16Z6 and keep it streetable.

Not unless you get Bisi to build you a craxy-*** carb'd D engine.

Sorry but 200whp is 100% totally unrealistic for an N/A D16Z6. 200whp is almost impossible N/A for the B16A. Hell 200whp isn't all that easy for the B18C1/5 engines, or even B20/VTEC motors either.

Start by laying out a more realistic goal.

160whp.

You can get there with good compression, the right headwork, and cams along with a good header and engine management.

I'd try this:

12.5:1 CR - either get 1989 Integra P29 slugs and a metal head gasket, or get forged pistons
Shotpeened ZC rods or forged rods
Good headwork from the likes of ExoSpeed
Bisi or AN-R header
Y8 intake manfold or Edelbrock
Good cam from Exospeed
Cam gear
Good means of tuning - Hondata possibly

That should be god for at least 160whp if you dfo it the right way.

Also don't forget the tranny. SRR 4.929 final drive in a 1992-1995 Si or EX tranny would do the trick.

*EDIT*

If you could get a nice sleeved and bored block you could have a totally bad-*** 1.8L SOHC and take a lot of people by surprise.

</TD></TR></TABLE>



wow.....tom good info.....I AGREE COMPLETELY!!! will not be streetable at all!

Ricey McRicerton

I think Tom is on the right track, but I'm going to have to disagree about the not being able to be done. Possibly not for what you want to spend, but for the price of an H22 swap Id be willing to bet you could do it. Agian, check my thread. I would bet 1.8L SOHC + high compression + good tuning + bolt ons + good headwork could yeild close to 200 whp. Honestly, a y8 starts with 127 hp (and yes, I know, all of these are at the crank so don't start in on that yet.) Add just bolt ons (bisimoto header, 3 inch AEM ITR CAI, and a free flowing exhaust) and you probobally have another 15 or so hp (and this is a moderate guess IMHO, as the bisimoto header is worth quite a bit iteslf). Now you're at 142 hp. With good headwork and cam I would venture to say 160 hp would not be that hard to get to with a stock bottom end. Of course you have to account for the 10-15% drivetrain losses, but still, that's on a stock 1.6 bottom end. I have great faith that a 1.8 with higher compression could get to 200 whp. A 200 hp N/A d series with a short tranny (ex with the shorter fd) could be a low low 13 second car easily!!!

EDIT: I'm also going to have to disagree with Tom about the rods...don't know if you have to work the ZC rods as much as the LS rods to get them to work, but for what you spend to make the LS rods fit you can have some nice aftermarket rods for about the same price.


Modified by Ricey McRicerton at 8:37 PM 1/9/2004

hondaeg95

U STILL HAVE THAT TURBO KIT? DID YOU BUY IT OFF OF GROUP BUY CENTER WHEN THEY HAD THAT SPECIAL?

Ricey McRicerton

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hondaeg95 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">U STILL HAVE THAT TURBO KIT? DID YOU BUY IT OFF OF GROUP BUY CENTER WHEN THEY HAD THAT SPECIAL?</TD></TR></TABLE>

No need for the all caps. Yes I do still have my turbo kit, and yes I did get it off of groupbuycenter when the special was running as well.

B18C5-EH2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would bet 1.8L SOHC + high compression + good tuning + bolt ons + good headwork could yeild close to 200 whp. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Think so?

I'm willing to bet that a worked D series head will not flow as well as a worked B series head, and even worked B series engines at 1.8L have trouble nudging the 200whp mark. A maxed out 1.8L D series will probably end up being held back by the head in terms of flow, but I could be wrong. I just think the B head will flow better and again they don't hit 200whp easy at all.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have great faith that a 1.8 with higher compression could get to 200 whp.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sure they can, but they are hellafied worked and I doubt they will be truly streetable meaning you can drive it every day and on trips, etc. We cannot keep using two guys like Bisi and Jay Yuson as the SOLE examples of 200whp D series engines because unless you're paying them to build yours it isn't really worth mentioning every time someone asks about a D series street build-up.

I love the SOHC, but I also see it's potential and lack thereof when compared to it's race-bred B series brothers.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A 200 hp N/A d series with a short tranny (ex with the shorter fd) could be a low low 13 second car easily!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

I disagree. If you are not hitting 12's in such a car you should kill yourself. My 176whp hatch is capable of high 12's on slicks gievn the right circumstances. Subtract my extra weight from the B series alone and it should hit similiar numbers provided that the gearing isn't too far off. 25 more whp and it's a sure-fire 12 second car.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm also going to have to disagree with Tom about the rods...don't know if you have to work the ZC rods as much as the LS rods to get them to work, </TD></TR></TABLE>

ZC rods are a direct bolt-in and if shot peened can probably handle most any N/A street build, but if I was going all-out with crazy-*** CR I'd probably want forged internals including rods.

At least Zc rods or the D16A1 rods shot peened or I'd not go too crazy because the D16Z6 rods are not very strong even for N/A use with high CR and revs.