supercharge my ex or turbo?
06-08-2005, 11:40 AM
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Re: (blurrrcivic94)
supercharger low to mid power. Turbo mid to high power you make the call. I would go with turbo. Just because they are easier to get rid of if and when the time comes. And you can piece together a good one for cheap.
06-08-2005, 11:50 AM
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Well Turbocharger systems typically have more room to upgrade later on down the line... But you have lag.
Supercharger systems are instant power, ideal for Auto Cross, which consists of tight corners, and demands instant power. But keep in mind, Superchargers run off Parasitic Drag, so it's creating power off rotation of the Crank. Turbo systems create power from expelled Exhaust Gasses, power that was already been used... So just think about that.
It all depends on what you're going for... The only form of racing that I participate in, is Auto Cross, but I'm going for a Turbocharger system... And the honest to God reason, I've always wanted a Turbo
It's up to you.
Supercharger systems are instant power, ideal for Auto Cross, which consists of tight corners, and demands instant power. But keep in mind, Superchargers run off Parasitic Drag, so it's creating power off rotation of the Crank. Turbo systems create power from expelled Exhaust Gasses, power that was already been used... So just think about that.
It all depends on what you're going for... The only form of racing that I participate in, is Auto Cross, but I'm going for a Turbocharger system... And the honest to God reason, I've always wanted a Turbo
It's up to you.
06-08-2005, 12:12 PM
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what about the emissions side of it, how do people pass with turbo? i know that since the supercharger is running off the crank, it doesn't really effect emissions. i'm asking because i'm also deciding on whether to supercharge or turbo an ls motor in a 92 hb.
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06-08-2005, 12:19 PM
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Re: (GetawayInMoscow)
Yeah, what they said, I mean a turbo done correctly, could totally kick a superchargers ***, just depends what kind of power you are looking for.. And, personally the big thing "I" would consider is $$$ a supercharger is going to run you quite a bit more, which I would think you would know if you are looking at one of these options right? Heck, I would do the turbo, and put the extra money you would sink into the super, and take it and build the engine a bit 
06-08-2005, 10:18 PM
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Well with emissions... You're tested at idle
So while a Supercharger is adding power at idle... A turbo is whistling nicely to itself for another 2,000RPM or so
But just to be safe... I kept my stock exhaust from the Header back... So when 2006 comes, and they start sticking 'sniffers' in our tailpipes for inspection, I can simply put my stock exhaust on, retard the timing a bit, and lean out the Air/Fuel mixture, and that should suffice.
It shouldn't be a problem with a mild set-up.
So while a Supercharger is adding power at idle... A turbo is whistling nicely to itself for another 2,000RPM or so
But just to be safe... I kept my stock exhaust from the Header back... So when 2006 comes, and they start sticking 'sniffers' in our tailpipes for inspection, I can simply put my stock exhaust on, retard the timing a bit, and lean out the Air/Fuel mixture, and that should suffice.
It shouldn't be a problem with a mild set-up.
06-09-2005, 08:47 AM
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Re: supercharge my ex or turbo? (NorcalHB94)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NorcalHB94 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">turbo is faster, SC is more reliable</TD></TR></TABLE>
What makes a supercharger more reliable?
What makes a supercharger more reliable?
06-09-2005, 08:55 AM
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Re: (oo3)
[QUOTE=oo3]what about the emissions side of it, how do people pass with turbo? i know that since the supercharger is running off the crank, it doesn't really effect emissions. i'm asking because i'm also deciding on whether to supercharge or turbo an ls motor in a 92 hb.[/QUOTE
Stock cars fail emissions to. People pass with a turbo because they tune their cars. A supercharged car can run just as rich as a turbo car. It has nothing to do with how the supercharger or turbo operates.
Stock cars fail emissions to. People pass with a turbo because they tune their cars. A supercharged car can run just as rich as a turbo car. It has nothing to do with how the supercharger or turbo operates.
06-09-2005, 09:04 AM
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Re: (ZedEx)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ZedEx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well with emissions... You're tested at idle
So while a Supercharger is adding power at idle... A turbo is whistling nicely to itself for another 2,000RPM or so
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think that depends on the SC. JRSC has a bypass valve that directs air either straight thru the manifold, or thru the charger. It's vacumn operated, and opens at about 30% throttle. So during idle or emissions testing it's going to operate like a NA car.
So while a Supercharger is adding power at idle... A turbo is whistling nicely to itself for another 2,000RPM or so
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think that depends on the SC. JRSC has a bypass valve that directs air either straight thru the manifold, or thru the charger. It's vacumn operated, and opens at about 30% throttle. So during idle or emissions testing it's going to operate like a NA car.
06-09-2005, 09:06 AM
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Re: supercharge my ex or turbo? (drft240)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drft240 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What makes a supercharger more reliable?</TD></TR></TABLE>
From http://www.jacksonracing.com/C...#time
Maintain:
unlike a turbo that requires cool down time, or warming up time because it is using the engines oil, the supercharger is ready to go when you are. As a matter of regular maintenance you should inspect the charger drive belt, as you should any drive belt, with every oil change.
Reliabilty:
Because of our unique bypass valve design, engine life is not effected. Our system is so efficient and produces such useable torque, that you are rarely at full throttle for any length of time. When you are at cruise speed or idle, the bypass allows the engine to breathe normally, no boost. Only when you depress the throttle aggressively does the bypass close and you have an instant 6psi of boost. Consequently, with our unique bypass valve and reasonable boost, engine life is not effected.
having seen first hand the long term effects of turbochargers on daily driven high compression Honda/Acura engines, we have opted to supercharge the future.
For absolute peak power where driveability, turbo lag, emissions, and long engine life does not need to be taken into consideration, turbo is the only way to go. But, with all things in this life, there is no free ride. With a properly designed turbo charger system you have the ability to produce huge amounts of boost and horsepower easily. The problem with that amount of boost is that once the turbo spools, it goes to full boost. There is no linear delivery of boost.
Consequently, if the turbo spools at 3000 rpm, you have full boost at a valve speed that is very slow. So, the turbo has lots of time to create cylinder pressure on the rods and pistons because of the very long time that the valve is open. This, in turn, is what creates that huge rush of power when the turbo spools. This is also what causes so many turbo engine failures. Combine that with the fact that the compressor sits within 2" of a glowing 1300 degree cast iron oven, the charge air temperature is always very high.
Emissions:
All of our base systems are 50-State emission legal. The CARB Exemption number will be provided in the system on a sticker that will be affixed under your hood upon installation.
Performance:
For comparison, in the September 97 issue of Motor Trend magazine they tested the stock 96-98 Civic EX and the Jackson Racing Supercharged Civic EX, completely loaded with Power steering, air conditioning, cruise control, and 16" wheels and tires. The stock Civic ran a 0-60 in 9.3 seconds and the Jackson Racing Supercharged Civic ran a 0-60 in 6.7 seconds. In the June 97 issue of Road and Track they tested the Jackson Racing Supercharged Civic against the Greddy Turbo/Intercooled Civic. The Greddy turbo Civic was loaded with $5500 worth of upgrades not found in their base kit. Included were intercooler, injector upgrade, thick head gasket, Rebic III, additional boost, etc. The Jackson Racing Supercharged Civic with no upgrades ran a best time of 15.1 seconds in the 1/4 mile. The Greddy Civic ran a best time of 15.2
I think that they make a good case for a SC
From http://www.jacksonracing.com/C...#time
Maintain:
unlike a turbo that requires cool down time, or warming up time because it is using the engines oil, the supercharger is ready to go when you are. As a matter of regular maintenance you should inspect the charger drive belt, as you should any drive belt, with every oil change.
Reliabilty:
Because of our unique bypass valve design, engine life is not effected. Our system is so efficient and produces such useable torque, that you are rarely at full throttle for any length of time. When you are at cruise speed or idle, the bypass allows the engine to breathe normally, no boost. Only when you depress the throttle aggressively does the bypass close and you have an instant 6psi of boost. Consequently, with our unique bypass valve and reasonable boost, engine life is not effected.
having seen first hand the long term effects of turbochargers on daily driven high compression Honda/Acura engines, we have opted to supercharge the future.
For absolute peak power where driveability, turbo lag, emissions, and long engine life does not need to be taken into consideration, turbo is the only way to go. But, with all things in this life, there is no free ride. With a properly designed turbo charger system you have the ability to produce huge amounts of boost and horsepower easily. The problem with that amount of boost is that once the turbo spools, it goes to full boost. There is no linear delivery of boost.
Consequently, if the turbo spools at 3000 rpm, you have full boost at a valve speed that is very slow. So, the turbo has lots of time to create cylinder pressure on the rods and pistons because of the very long time that the valve is open. This, in turn, is what creates that huge rush of power when the turbo spools. This is also what causes so many turbo engine failures. Combine that with the fact that the compressor sits within 2" of a glowing 1300 degree cast iron oven, the charge air temperature is always very high.
Emissions:
All of our base systems are 50-State emission legal. The CARB Exemption number will be provided in the system on a sticker that will be affixed under your hood upon installation.
Performance:
For comparison, in the September 97 issue of Motor Trend magazine they tested the stock 96-98 Civic EX and the Jackson Racing Supercharged Civic EX, completely loaded with Power steering, air conditioning, cruise control, and 16" wheels and tires. The stock Civic ran a 0-60 in 9.3 seconds and the Jackson Racing Supercharged Civic ran a 0-60 in 6.7 seconds. In the June 97 issue of Road and Track they tested the Jackson Racing Supercharged Civic against the Greddy Turbo/Intercooled Civic. The Greddy turbo Civic was loaded with $5500 worth of upgrades not found in their base kit. Included were intercooler, injector upgrade, thick head gasket, Rebic III, additional boost, etc. The Jackson Racing Supercharged Civic with no upgrades ran a best time of 15.1 seconds in the 1/4 mile. The Greddy Civic ran a best time of 15.2
I think that they make a good case for a SC
06-09-2005, 09:07 AM
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Turbo, you gotta take more care of it, don't want it have shaft play!
SC, well not as strong at high end rpm's but it'll do the job for take off!
my cousin's N/A rebuilt b18 motor (tuned to the max) killed his friends del sol with a b18 swap plus a Jacksons Super Charger by half a car length! Just think about that! Not just once but constantly!
Lots of pro's and con's for both, you decide!
SC, well not as strong at high end rpm's but it'll do the job for take off!
my cousin's N/A rebuilt b18 motor (tuned to the max) killed his friends del sol with a b18 swap plus a Jacksons Super Charger by half a car length! Just think about that! Not just once but constantly!
Lots of pro's and con's for both, you decide!
06-09-2005, 09:33 AM
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Re: supercharge my ex or turbo? (flood)
1. Your source is from jacksonracing website. Of course they gonna push their product.
2. How is the superchager ready to go when you are? You still have to let the car warm up and reach operating temp. Turbo timer if your that worried about your oil cooling down. The only time you need to let it cool is if you autocross the car or rag the **** out of it for an hour straight. Wouldnt you let the supercharged car cool too?
3. Reliability: Tuning makes it reliable. Its not if you have some stupid bypass valve or not. Boost is boost whether it comes from a turbo or supercharger. The key is tuning. Your not always boosting with a turbo.
4. Long term: Whats high compression about his ex motor? 9.2:1
5. Emissions: Greddy is carb exempt also.
6. You say the charge air is hotter in a turbo? You have no way of cooling the air a Jackson racing supercharger creates. intercooler or water cooler for turbo. Hot air in combustion chamber=bad.
7. Experience: I own a 99 prelude jackson racing supercharged and 95 turbo 240sx. Ive had more detonation from the supercharger because their is no way to cool the compressed air.
Modified by drft240 at 10:57 AM 6/9/2005
2. How is the superchager ready to go when you are? You still have to let the car warm up and reach operating temp. Turbo timer if your that worried about your oil cooling down. The only time you need to let it cool is if you autocross the car or rag the **** out of it for an hour straight. Wouldnt you let the supercharged car cool too?
3. Reliability: Tuning makes it reliable. Its not if you have some stupid bypass valve or not. Boost is boost whether it comes from a turbo or supercharger. The key is tuning. Your not always boosting with a turbo.
4. Long term: Whats high compression about his ex motor? 9.2:1
5. Emissions: Greddy is carb exempt also.
6. You say the charge air is hotter in a turbo? You have no way of cooling the air a Jackson racing supercharger creates. intercooler or water cooler for turbo. Hot air in combustion chamber=bad.
7. Experience: I own a 99 prelude jackson racing supercharged and 95 turbo 240sx. Ive had more detonation from the supercharger because their is no way to cool the compressed air.
Modified by drft240 at 10:57 AM 6/9/2005
06-09-2005, 09:38 AM
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Re: supercharge my ex or turbo? (flood)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by flood »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Maintain:
unlike a turbo that requires cool down time, or warming up time because it is using the engines oil, the supercharger is ready to go when you are. As a matter of regular maintenance you should inspect the charger drive belt, as you should any drive belt, with every oil change.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You still want the s/c's turbines the chance to get the grease going though, just like anything else with moving parts!
-Shane
unlike a turbo that requires cool down time, or warming up time because it is using the engines oil, the supercharger is ready to go when you are. As a matter of regular maintenance you should inspect the charger drive belt, as you should any drive belt, with every oil change.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You still want the s/c's turbines the chance to get the grease going though, just like anything else with moving parts!
-Shane
06-09-2005, 09:49 AM
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Supercharger and Turbo are both are reliable (or unreliable) as each other. Whoever said that a SC is more reliable (and then producing a link to JRSC) has no idea wtf they are talking about.
Boost is boost, whether deliverd by a SC or TC. If you aren't tuning properly, both are unreliable.
Boost is boost, whether deliverd by a SC or TC. If you aren't tuning properly, both are unreliable.
06-09-2005, 11:57 AM
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AGAIN, pro's and con's of both are almost equal. You have what you asked for so decide! Like I said, depends on what you want for your car!
Turbo, overboost, your gonna blow ur motor!
SC, same thing! doesn't matter, with power you must either upgrade or TUNE!!!
Turbo, overboost, your gonna blow ur motor!
SC, same thing! doesn't matter, with power you must either upgrade or TUNE!!!