Briman2021

How many of you guys have strut tie bars on your cars???

I am thinking about getting a front and rear for my 97 Ex Coupe because it is an inexpensive mod and is hella easy to install.

Do they make much of a difference in the handling??
Do they make the ride any harsher??

Thanks!!!

DragII

they own!

FifthGearOnline

they make your cars handeling go from runny poop, to solid poop

Briman2021

TTT

Do you guys think they are a good starting point for upgrading my suspension??

mps9506

best place to start is either spirngs and shocks, or sway bars. I honestly only have my strut bar on cuz I think it looks good. It is an ITR one that I landed for like 80 bucks. I didn't notice a difference.I have Eibach sportlines, Tokico blues (I know poopoo, but I don't have $) My next move is a rear sway bar. I have a DX and also just purchsed a stock front sway bar from an ex. I'm planning on getting the beaks kit.

DragII

springs and shocks, strut bars, sway bars

thats the order I took.

TurboSedan

I think the best order to go in is:
1. Springs + Shocks (at the same time)
2. Anti-Roll bars
3. Strut tower bars
4. Lower tie bars
5. Poly bushings



[Modified by 97CivicFerio, 11:45 AM 3/17/2002]

owen_the_soyboy

I agree, after doing two cars over the last two years, that is mos def the way to do it. If your car is ragged old then you may need new bushings when you install the shocks, so they may need to be installed then.

tFUnK

I put on front and rear strut bars on my 00 ex... they are the generic ebay ones with a pivot point ( unlikt the oem gsr, sr, itr they have fixed mounting points)

I felt kinda a big difference in handling, a lot less understeer and my car has less body roll. makes me car feel more solid basically...

in my opinion i think they are a good beginning mod, as i dont have springs/shocks installed yet. I got springs and sway bars at home waitin to be put on some time.

a lot of people say strut bars dont do shyt, but for me, it made enough difference for me to appreciate. but then again, i'm not hardcore like a lot other people on this site

wakaru

I disagree (and no flame intended). Here's my recommended order of suspension mods:
1. Lower tie bars
2. Upper strut braces
3. Springs + Shocks (at the same time)
4. Anti-Roll bars
5. Poly bushings (if felt to be needed)

With the intention of various braces and bars to provide an increase in the structural rigidity of the chassis itself, it's logical to prepare the chassis for the mods that will actually impart more force into it. Granted, one may not feel much, if any performance difference by putting the braces on first, so it may not be quite as gratifying, but the chassis will like it.

Of course, it really comes down to the degree of need. If a chassis is already so rigid that it does not need strengthening, then you can write off the bars and braces entirely, as they add weight too. In the case of the 4th, 5th and 6th generation Civic platforms though, its my opinion that they need the reinforcement regardless of doing anything else.

I have a bone stock '92 Si that's about to start getting suspension mods for street use. The braces will be the first thing to get done. I've already gotten the OEM lower brace and bolts that come on del Sol VTECs. I doubt I'll ever put sticky enough rubber on the car it to stress the chassis so much that it needs more front-lower reinforcement than that provides.

I'll take the OEM upper front strut brace and the cheap, no-name rear upper strut brace I currently have on my del Sol VTEC and put them on this car too, as I feel they'll be quite adequate for the car's intended use. The Si will be getting a Beaks ITR kit too, so I'll use whatever rear lower tie bar will be compatable with that. All of this bracing will go on the car before the shocks/springs and sway bars.

The del Sol will probably get whatever is lightest and strongest (Skunk, or BENEN perhaps), as it will see some track use with stickier tires.

Yes Steve! I changed my mind and the del Sol will be the "track" car! The bolts you sent me are going that car instead of the Si. I'll get Beaks bolts for the Si.


[Modified by wakaru, 9:48 AM 3/18/2002]

TurboSedan

Yes, but if someone wants performance now your way is not the way to go. A tie bar itself cannot even be felt. A strut bar, maybe but not likely.

wakaru

From your post, responding to my post...

From my original post...

I get the impression from your statement that "performance now" is something that should be able to be immediately felt, and be found gratifying. I'm not sure where my statement addressing that issue is lacking, but I'm open to suggestions. Performance, unless accurately measured, is usually subjective. One might define performance as ultimately how fast a particular curve can be taken, or how quickly a particular steering transition (lane change) can be accomplished, where another might define it as how fast a car can be driven under a widely varying set of conditions, or how controllable a vehicle may be during either of the above situations while going at an above average rate of speed.

In regards to the original post that started this thread, and the post that you orginally responded to, I did not see an indication that "performance now", as I feel you defined it, was necessarily the goal in regards to braces. Assuming that we're starting with a stock chassis though, and tires that are close to stock in their adhesive properties, the chassis is most likely not being stressed to the point where bracing can be felt or would make a tangible difference in "performance", unless the car is driven to its limits at higher speeds. However, when one does start making modifications that put additional loadings into the chassis (sticker tires, stiffer springs & shocks, bigger swaybars), bracing helps prevent the additional loadings from making the chassis exceed its originally intended stress envelope. Its why I think bracing first is a good idea.

I need to qualify my statement regarding the bracing and the lack of feel one may find after the fact. The "performance" that braces provide may simply not be felt until the car and/or driver are near or at their limits. Almost certainly not at lower speeds. Also, everyone has different abilities, and many don't push theirs or their car's abilities as far as some others do. I do concur that in the case of a stock vehicle, if someone wants to feel something immediately after a modification, then bracing is probably not going to give them what they want.

TurboSedan

I agree with what you said in regards to his post. I myself installed a front tower brace first. That is an area that could use the additional bracing for someone who tests the limits a lot like myself. I then installed springs/shocks after the bar. It felt very nice then, not perfect but nice. All I really need badly now is the ST 19mm rear anti roll bar.
None of my post was intended as flame, just a polite arguement. If you knew you were going to get springs/shocks eventually, I just think it is best to get them first so you have a nice base to start working from.

wakaru

TurboSedan

brcivic411

this is how i would go

Briman2021

The thing is, I have about $1200 right now, I really want coil-overs, but I don't wanna spend a ton of money, what would you guys recommend??

I also want to get an intake or cam or some other basic power-adder.

So basically, if I could get a good coil-over setup for $600-$750 (I don't auto-x, I just need the height adjustability) that would be perfect.

Thanks!!

Spade

Ground control coilovers!

fsp31

Wait!

You have a 6th gen chassis! A lot of contributors to this thread are driving 5G's and Del Sols. Totally different animals. Not that 6G's are that great, but 5G's feel like wet noodles compared to them. Honda put a lot more into the unibody design of the 6G cars, not to mention a massive cross brace underneath the back seat. (only idiots remove it) I don't know all the chassis differences between the 96+ Del Sols and Civic hatches, but the SC'd 97' Del Sol that I drove felt even more flexible than a 5G Civic.

IMO, you will experience no gain in chassis stiffness from strut tower bars in front or rear. Even with the added grip of my Hoosiers I couldn't tell any difference. I ended up removing the rear strut tower brace because it was dead weight and it got in the way. I left the front brace installed because it's pretty. I haven't even bothered with sub-frame braces. Unless you're going with a full track-worthy suspension, chassis braces of this sort are only going to add weight and drain your pocket book.

Briman2021

Those cost $300 for the springs, so what kind of shocks should I get to minimize the total cost.

Also, I am going to put them on myself, do I need to keep and parts of the stock shocks or springs???

Robster

my opinion (but it really all depends how you're trying to set your car up and what type of driving style you do)
1. Sway Bars
2. Shocks Springs
3. Poly Bushings
4. Strut Bars Tie bars

Reason being, civics are fwd and tend to plow like a tractor, sway bars are the most effective way to get rid of understeer and body roll, shocks and springs do somewhat help with weight transfer, but not as much as sway bars. Shocks and springs are used to absorb the bumps on a track. If on a smooth surface, its very hard to tell the difference between 2 different sets of completely different shocks when you have a good set of sway bars on. Stock rubber bushings flex and distort more than the chasis does, whats harder, metal or rubber? Duh, rubber flexes a lot more and rubber bushings flexing does the same thing as the chasis flexing, it throughs the alignment settings off temporarily between the tires/wheels. The bushing starts flexing/distorting well before the chasis does. And last, chasis braces. Actually, I should have put tires as #1 for obvious reasons, its the only thing in contact with the road.

wakaru

You are, of course, entirely correct. In my haste to add my 2 pennies, I should have stated that my experience has been with del Sols, 5th gen and earlier chassis, and a single 7th gen chassis (we have a new EX Sedan). I should have also stated that I have no first-hand experience with the 6th gen chassis. In consideration of the fact that the author of the original post was speaking of his own 6th gen chassis, I retract my earlier statements in regard to his particular situation.

In my defense, the only thing I can say is that sticky tires and suspension modifications can and do impart forces upon a chassis that may be greater than what the chassis has been designed for. For as cheap as it is to do, increasing the rigidity of the chassis, if needed, should be the first consideration. I will maintain that this holds true across all platforms of Civics, and indeed, across most mass-produced cars.

Time for another

tFUnK

i still think that unless you plan to be pretty hardcore with your suspension, just pick up some strut tower bars if you can... again, i probably drive my car pretty soft compared to other people, but it made my car more fun to drive. IMO get a CAI and some strut bars and that'll be entertaining for a while, for a newbie like myself at least.

koni/gc setup will be a tad bit over 8 bills, which, IMO could rather be spent on some "real" c/o's. you can pay 4 bills for some pretty decent shocks, then another bill on some springs, but then you wont get the adjustability you wanted. keep corner weights in mind when adjusting the height on them coilovers, though. it's easier to make your car unbalanced equally.

personally, i havent put on my springs and shocks and sway bars yet, so i can't comment on them, yet

GokuSSJ4

Re: Strut Tie Bars (SuperDragII) (97CivicFerio)

I think the best order to go in is:
1. Springs + Shocks (at the same time)
2. Anti-Roll bars
3. Strut tower bars
4. Lower tie bars
5. Poly bushings


[Modified by 97CivicFerio, 11:45 AM 3/17/2002]