gunterelectric226

I am working on a 97 civic ex,auto(almost all stock). When the car hits any kind of bump(ripples in asphalt) it sounded like the shock was not dampening at all. You can also feel it in the steering. This is all driver's side BTW. I finally got the rotor off(really stuck) and I see the steering gear boot is ripped.( I am using Haynes for guidance) I also noticed before taking the tire off there is a good amount of play in the wheel front to back, which is what got me looking at steering.
After getting to where I can see the play is in the tie rod, not the tie rod end. I am wondering where to go now. The joint(almost like a hiem joint) looks kinda dried out. Is this where my clunk(what I thought was the shock) is coming from? Is this replaceable? The Haynes goes from tie rod end replacement to steering gear boot replacement to steering gear replacement. I am wondering if I can fix this with out replacing the whole gear.
I do not think the gear is bad at all. ALL the play is in the joint(again, like a hiem). Anyone have any suggestions......am I barking up the tree with the steering play to fix the clunk? I am just trying to get my wife's dd back on the road so I can get her out of my 10mpg Bronco.

trustdestruction

definitely sounds like the ball joint. it's replaceable.

gunterelectric226

You mean a ball joint or the joint in the steering I was referring to? or a ball joint(suspension)? if you are talking about the joint in the tie rod(steering) how the heck do you replace it?

trustdestruction

Well it sounds like the problem is either your upper or lower ball joint (suspension). I don't know what part you are referring to on the steering. Pictures of the problem area would help.
Free play with the wheel usually indicates a bad ball joint.

gunterelectric226

ok I understand. I appreciate the help. I am still curious about the play in the steering. The joint I am talking about(sorry have no way to get pics online) is inside the dust boot on the tie rod. The Haynes manual refers to the boot as the steering gear boot.

gunterelectric226

Any one got any suggestions about the play in the steering. I really wish i had a way to get pics on the computer.....I am sure it would be alot easier to describe.

gunterelectric226

I am stuck on the steering issue. I can't find any further descriptions of the set-up. I am hoping that someone that has done work on their steering and recognizes what i am talking about will chime in with some suggestions.

As far as the ball joints, how do I test them. I have tried to wiggle the wheel(hands at 12 and 6) and there is no play. With hands at 3 and 9 I have quite a bit of play in the steering joint in the tie rod. I can't find the info in the Haynes and am just trying to get some advice to get me to a positive conclusion cause I do not believe in throwing parts at problems.


Thanks

trustdestruction

Well about 3 weeks ago i went to get an alignment and the mechanic (one i trust, he's solved a couple problems on my car that i couldn't figure out for the life of me) said that doing an alignment would just be a waste of my money because my lower ball joints were bad and that I need to replace them before I get an alignment. Both front wheels had play with hands at 3 and 9. He said it was my lower ball joints.

El_Capitan

Inner tie rod or inner socket on the rack and pinion...number 1?? unless it is the outer tie rod..
http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...ERING+GEAR+BOX

Either way it isn't the end of the world, but a trip to the alignment shop is in order after replacement of either one...

gunterelectric226

I will check on that. I do appreciate the help. I can physically see the play in the tie rod. I am curious about the ball joints as they are stock as far as I know. I know enough to know that the joint in the tie rod is not normal and it needs to be fixed but from what information I can find I haven't figured out if the tie rod is replaceable. I have yet to get far enough into the gear to see if there is something that releases the tie rod but it doesn't just come out. I am hoping that someone has the information that I cannot find that will save me the trouble of trying to replace the whole gear or even trying to pull it to figure out what the solution is.

I just want to get my wife's DD back on the road as soon as possible.

gunterelectric226

THANK YOU El Capitan!!! That page just got bookmarked. The elusive "joint" that is the problem is part #1 on the exploded view.... the rack end set. Most of my suspension and steering experience is with 4 wheel drives.

Again thanks for the help.

El_Capitan

If is the outer (closest to the tire/knuckle) just go to your local parts house and get a outer tie rod..Then make an appt at your local alignment shop (yes it will need to be aligned after replacement of any parts) I doubt your ball joints are bad you say you have play left to right not up and down.. If it's the inner it's bit more involved but still totaly do-able.. Check out Hondahookup.com for -good- manuals Anything steering suspention wise is replaceable on a honda..

gunterelectric226

Does anyone have any advice for getting the rack end set off the rack? I have both sides torn down and am having a little issue getting it off. The above exploded view isn't helping me figure out how it comes out. I am 98% positive that this is my issue, the driver's side is shot and both are getting replaced with new.

gunterelectric226

bump

El_Capitan

You'll need a tool like this it's called a crows foot. You can prob rent one from your local parts store. Remember to loctite the threads on that inner socket when you put it back together..

http://www.matcotools.com/ProductImages/TRT49.jpg

gunterelectric226

thanks again. I will be going to the parts store tomorrow and getting two inner tie rods and boots and hopefully renting the "crow's foot"

gunterelectric226

I got all new MOOG inner tie rod and one MOOG boot. The store only had one. I got the driver's off but now need to go rent the tool so I can torque them down properly. I also have some blue and red thread locker. I will use the red and probably regret it if I ever have to replace these again. Oh Well better than having them back out.

The install instructions for the new inner tie rod says to pack grease into the ball socket. I have some Ford grease that i use in all my steering and such on my truck......will this suffice. I also have some tractor grease that i use in my hubs on my truck(uber sticky nasty stuff). If necessary I can get some import grease but would assume that the Ford grease in my gun would be sufficient but don't want to assume anything with the steering on my wife's car(in which my kids are transported). Anyone have any suggestions?

gunterelectric226

OK I guess no one has an opinion or suggestion for the grease question.





bump

iluvmyhnda

well im not an expert on grease but it sounds like it should do... btw, depending on how long you drove with bad inner tie rods, that may not completely fix the problem... it could have actually damaged the p/s rack

gunterelectric226

I don't think it was very long but..... who knows. A few months ago she ran it so low on oil that it wasn't registering on the dip stick. I don't think that the rack is damaged. Would there be any play in it if it was damaged?

iluvmyhnda

if there is, you wont be able to notice until there is load applied (on the ground)

gunterelectric226

Well, we will see. Tomorrow after Orieley's gets my MOOG bellow kit in. I truely hope there isn't any more damage. I have got my eye on a set of axles for my truck.lol

gunterelectric226

I finished it. I really appreciate the help from those able to help.

I got the new MOOG inner tie rods installed with new MOOG poly bellows(man these are hard to install as they have NO stretch). I also installed new Wagner ceramic pads. I did a quick driveway alignment(tape measure) and although the steering wheel isn't straight the car drives,stops, and accelerates perfectly straight. The steering is incredible. Nice and tight and responsive again. I drove at least a 1/4 mile down my street without a hand on the wheel and it didn't budge an inch through braking or acceleration. I also cleaned up an erratic(sp) idle and the stumbling acceleration with a new fuel filter.

Thanks again,
Jeff

El_Capitan

^^^ Good deal! Make sure you get someone to set the alignment for you..

gunterelectric226

I have only driven it around the block a couple of times until I can get laser aligned. The rear squats a little bit so I am going to look into that next.

Tonight I am installing a heavy duty brake booster in my Bronco. it never seems to end but I enjoy it(most of the time)


Thanks again,
Jeff