Spoilers don't do anything on FWD?
12-12-2003, 06:53 AM
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Spoilers don't do anything on FWD?
People always say spoilers are useless for fwd cars for the obvious reason that they are FWD. But does a wing really help on a rear wheel drive car? If you have a rear wheel drive car and a spoiler I don't think it would help increase traction a noticable amount at speeds less than 50 mph or so. So a spoiler would only really become effective for traction in dragging at the top of 2nd gear or so, whatever is around 50mph. Also, when you are on the race track the only time you are accelerating and turning at the same time is when you are coming out of a turn, so if a rear wheel drive car comes out of a turn at low speeds then the spoiler won't help rear wheel traction because of the slow speeds when exiting. Anyway what I'm trying to get at is, is a spoiler really that stupid on a fwd car? Isn't it more to just stablize the back end of the car as opposed to only helping gaining traction to limit wheelspin on a rear wheel drive car when going in a straight line? I figure that the only time a spoiler really is helpful at reducing rwd cars spinning their tires is when they are spinning them at high speeds, when they are making a lot of power to spin the tires at high speeds and exiting turns at high speeds. I'm not too good at explaining things but my point is that spoilers belong on fwd cars and rwd cars and improve the handling of both about the same, their job is to stabilize the back end of the car at high speeds. Anyway I just want your opinions about my logic and conclusion if you can understand my bad explanation.
12-12-2003, 07:03 AM
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Re: Spoilers don't do anything on FWD? (PriMaTe)
well i don't think they put them on all cars for traction and at speeds of 50mph plus its gona have to be one narlly car to break loose at that speed. It is why if you look at NHRA underclass RWD cars not alot of them have huge wings and what not but when you get up into the pro classes at 1500 hp + they need help. and on road race cars i think it has to do with downforce and keeping tires planted more then anythings.
i never really thought the huge wings on Top fuel drags/ and funny cars did much. but i was talking to my uncle, who is a crew cheif for a NHRA funny car, and he showed me a video were a dragster had broken one of the smaller adjustment things on the wing and it went WAYYY out of control. pretty crazy. This is a reason for many of the unepected wild crashes in NHRA people think but when you crash at 300mph EVERY except for the lil cage you sit in is destroyed so its kinda hard to tell
i never really thought the huge wings on Top fuel drags/ and funny cars did much. but i was talking to my uncle, who is a crew cheif for a NHRA funny car, and he showed me a video were a dragster had broken one of the smaller adjustment things on the wing and it went WAYYY out of control. pretty crazy. This is a reason for many of the unepected wild crashes in NHRA people think but when you crash at 300mph EVERY except for the lil cage you sit in is destroyed so its kinda hard to tell
12-12-2003, 07:03 AM
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Re: Spoilers don't do anything on FWD? (PriMaTe)
WOW! One word...Paragraph. I got a headache reading your novel without any paragraph breaks. Anyways, spoilers DO have a purpose on both fwd and rwd cars. FWD cars should have a front spoiler a.k.a. "front lip" and RWD cars have "rear spoilers". Either way, both spoilers are mere looks until you reach a certain speed.
12-12-2003, 07:24 AM
#4
I really don't know
Re: Spoilers don't do anything on FWD? (Kalokohan)
spoilers do stuff to FWD
1) cause drag
2) keep your *** seated when turning at high speeds
3) look cool
4) use them as a handle to push when your car is broken
5) read number 2
6) read number 5
1) cause drag
2) keep your *** seated when turning at high speeds
3) look cool
4) use them as a handle to push when your car is broken
5) read number 2
6) read number 5
12-12-2003, 07:54 AM
#5
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Re: Spoilers don't do anything on FWD? (JDM EK9)
If you want to know what kinda of spoilers work on FWD cars, just look at what professional touring cars use!
12-12-2003, 07:57 AM
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Re: Spoilers don't do anything on FWD? (Marauder)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Marauder »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you want to know what kinda of spoilers work on FWD cars, just look at what professional touring cars use!</TD></TR></TABLE>exactly 
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12-12-2003, 08:03 AM
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Re: Spoilers don't do anything on FWD? (JDM EK9)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM EK9 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">spoilers do stuff to FWD
1) cause drag
2) keep your *** seated when turning at high speeds
3) look cool
4) use them as a handle to push when your car is broken
5) read number 2
6) read number 5</TD></TR></TABLE>
well said
1) cause drag
2) keep your *** seated when turning at high speeds
3) look cool
4) use them as a handle to push when your car is broken
5) read number 2
6) read number 5</TD></TR></TABLE>
well said
12-12-2003, 08:18 AM
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Re: Spoilers don't do anything on FWD? (Marauder)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Marauder »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">See what they use for a spoiler on the RealTime RSX Touring Car
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I figured they were useful, just wondering if my logic was correct, thanks for the replies. The touring car thing is a good point too. Sorry my post was poorly written.
</TD></TR></TABLE>I figured they were useful, just wondering if my logic was correct, thanks for the replies. The touring car thing is a good point too. Sorry my post was poorly written.
12-12-2003, 08:37 AM
#10
yeah, increase understeer on a car that comes with plenty already. ok, those touring cars have JIC etc. suspension. noone needs that **** on a street civic. RIIIIIIICCCEEE........... 
FWD cars have understeer, RWD cars have oversteer. Increasing drag and downforce on the rear end increases understeer. a rear spoiler helps a RWD car by getting rid of some of the oversteer. putting one on a FWD car thats not equipped with all other spoilers, diffusers, and suspension is ****
FWD cars have understeer, RWD cars have oversteer. Increasing drag and downforce on the rear end increases understeer. a rear spoiler helps a RWD car by getting rid of some of the oversteer. putting one on a FWD car thats not equipped with all other spoilers, diffusers, and suspension is ****
12-12-2003, 08:48 AM
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Re: (ShadyEH2)
At speed, a rear wing on a fwd car will help keep the rear end planted. Also the sides on the wings help with straight line stability.
As for keeping the rear end planted, believe it or not, but not everyone wants a buttload of oversteer on a car. I don't know why everyone thinks that understeer is evil. Also, by keeping your rear end planted, the car will be more stable when making quick maneuvers such as trying to pass someone at speed. Ever seen someone make a lane change too fast and start to fishtail? I have it isn't pretty.
Anyways, wings/spoilers are useful when done properly for the application. Doesn't matter if your car is fwd, rwd, or awd. The only thing rice about them is those big non functional (some are angle wrong, so they would actually create lift) park bench wings that you see people riding around with.
As for keeping the rear end planted, believe it or not, but not everyone wants a buttload of oversteer on a car. I don't know why everyone thinks that understeer is evil. Also, by keeping your rear end planted, the car will be more stable when making quick maneuvers such as trying to pass someone at speed. Ever seen someone make a lane change too fast and start to fishtail? I have it isn't pretty.
Anyways, wings/spoilers are useful when done properly for the application. Doesn't matter if your car is fwd, rwd, or awd. The only thing rice about them is those big non functional (some are angle wrong, so they would actually create lift) park bench wings that you see people riding around with.
12-12-2003, 08:53 AM
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Re: (ShadyEH2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ShadyEH2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah, increase understeer on a car that comes with plenty already. ok, those touring cars have JIC etc. suspension. noone needs that **** on a street civic. RIIIIIIICCCEEE...........
FWD cars have understeer, RWD cars have oversteer. Increasing drag and downforce on the rear end increases understeer. a rear spoiler helps a RWD car by getting rid of some of the oversteer. putting one on a FWD car thats not equipped with all other spoilers, diffusers, and suspension is ****</TD></TR></TABLE>
umm, i guess?
so adding more traction to the rear means understeer? ok...
anyways, no one really needs a wing for street. now if you are road racing then maybe. if you get
a wing for looks go **** yourself and get your shopping cart out of here.
FWD cars have understeer, RWD cars have oversteer. Increasing drag and downforce on the rear end increases understeer. a rear spoiler helps a RWD car by getting rid of some of the oversteer. putting one on a FWD car thats not equipped with all other spoilers, diffusers, and suspension is ****</TD></TR></TABLE>
umm, i guess?
so adding more traction to the rear means understeer? ok...
anyways, no one really needs a wing for street. now if you are road racing then maybe. if you get
a wing for looks go **** yourself and get your shopping cart out of here.
12-12-2003, 08:54 AM
#13
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Re: (kommon_sense)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kommon_sense »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Anyways, wings/spoilers are useful when done properly for the application. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, like when I saw one of those civic spoilers from the first FNF movie on the roof of a hatch! It was hard not to laugh my *** off!
Modified by Marauder at 10:12 AM 12/12/2003
Yeah, like when I saw one of those civic spoilers from the first FNF movie on the roof of a hatch! It was hard not to laugh my *** off!
Modified by Marauder at 10:12 AM 12/12/2003
12-12-2003, 08:57 AM
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Re: Spoilers don't do anything on FWD? (PriMaTe)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PriMaTe »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I figured they were useful, just wondering if my logic was correct, thanks for the replies. The touring car thing is a good point too. Sorry my post was poorly written. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Most Touring cars also have Huge front Splitters,
Such as the one on this car
And this is the one on the real time car
which create better airflow and more downforce on the front, so they need a rear spoiler on the back to help balance out the car, if out have a fornt splitter and are having a hard time keeping the back planted or it is rotating too much you <U>may</U> need a rear spoiler. But to have a rear spoiler on a steet car that does not see Road Race Track with high speed corners is just stupid. Its all about balance and airflow.
I figured they were useful, just wondering if my logic was correct, thanks for the replies. The touring car thing is a good point too. Sorry my post was poorly written. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Most Touring cars also have Huge front Splitters,
Such as the one on this car
And this is the one on the real time car
which create better airflow and more downforce on the front, so they need a rear spoiler on the back to help balance out the car, if out have a fornt splitter and are having a hard time keeping the back planted or it is rotating too much you <U>may</U> need a rear spoiler. But to have a rear spoiler on a steet car that does not see Road Race Track with high speed corners is just stupid. Its all about balance and airflow.
12-12-2003, 09:02 AM
#15
Re: (ShadyEH2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ShadyEH2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah, increase understeer on a car that comes with plenty already. ok, those touring cars have JIC etc. suspension. noone needs that **** on a street civic. RIIIIIIICCCEEE...........
FWD cars have understeer, RWD cars have oversteer. Increasing drag and downforce on the rear end increases understeer. a rear spoiler helps a RWD car by getting rid of some of the oversteer. putting one on a FWD car thats not equipped with all other spoilers, diffusers, and suspension is ****</TD></TR></TABLE>
You have no idea what you are talking about.
Oversteer and understeer are not conditions of what wheel drive a car is. I can make ANY car BOTH oversteer and understeer.
Talking out of your *** about something you dont understand makes YOU the ricer.
FWD cars have understeer, RWD cars have oversteer. Increasing drag and downforce on the rear end increases understeer. a rear spoiler helps a RWD car by getting rid of some of the oversteer. putting one on a FWD car thats not equipped with all other spoilers, diffusers, and suspension is ****</TD></TR></TABLE>
You have no idea what you are talking about.
Oversteer and understeer are not conditions of what wheel drive a car is. I can make ANY car BOTH oversteer and understeer.
Talking out of your *** about something you dont understand makes YOU the ricer.
12-12-2003, 09:04 AM
#16
Down Since Day 1
Re: (tonyXcom)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tonyXcom »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Oversteer and understeer are not conditions of what wheel drive a car is. I can make ANY car BOTH oversteer and understeer.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
100% true.
Oversteer and understeer are not conditions of what wheel drive a car is. I can make ANY car BOTH oversteer and understeer.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
100% true.
12-12-2003, 09:06 AM
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Re: (tonyXcom)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tonyXcom »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You have no idea what you are talking about.
Oversteer and understeer are not conditions of what wheel drive a car is. I can make ANY car BOTH oversteer and understeer.
Talking out of your *** about something you dont understand makes YOU the ricer.</TD></TR></TABLE>
spoken like a true racer.
drive on
You have no idea what you are talking about.
Oversteer and understeer are not conditions of what wheel drive a car is. I can make ANY car BOTH oversteer and understeer.
Talking out of your *** about something you dont understand makes YOU the ricer.</TD></TR></TABLE>
spoken like a true racer.
drive on
12-12-2003, 09:27 AM
#18
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (Mr. Choi)
now thats some great info in this thread.. i've always had ideas of "why a spoiler?".. most of my ideas seem to be true.. keep up the info
12-12-2003, 09:38 AM
#20
be professional
Re: (ShadyEH2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ShadyEH2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah, increase understeer on a car that comes with plenty already. ok, those touring cars have JIC etc. suspension. noone needs that **** on a street civic. RIIIIIIICCCEEE...........
FWD cars have understeer, RWD cars have oversteer. Increasing drag and downforce on the rear end increases understeer. a rear spoiler helps a RWD car by getting rid of some of the oversteer. putting one on a FWD car thats not equipped with all other spoilers, diffusers, and suspension is ****</TD></TR></TABLE>
Um, no.
Understeer and oversteer have nothing to do with where the drive wheels are.
I make my FWD cars oversteer at every autocross I attend. Similarly, I can make any RWD car understeer like a pig.
Few people want a car to be biased for either understeer or oversteer. In most, if not all cases, a neutral-handling car is best. Stock suspension is typically tuned for understeer, simply for the fact that it is safer for all of the uneducated drivers out there.
And yes, a rear spoiler does benefit a FWD car, particularly during high speed braking. All of the air rushing under the light rear-end of a FWD car creates lift - and when you brake, weigh transfers forward, which further reduces the load on the rear tires. With all of this loss of grip in the rear, the car becomes very unstable. Thus, a spoiler is necessary to create downforce, in order to combat the lift created by air moving underneath the vehicle.
These are the reasons Volkswagen had to add a spoiler to the Audi TT, after drivers complained of the car tending to swap ends during high speed braking. The Volkswagen Beetle Turbo and the Acura Integra Type-R also have rear spoilers for the same reason.
An ITR can actually be quite dangerous at high speeds without its spoiler, as proven by a few members of Honda-Tech who have done HPDEs with a wingless ITR.
Now, with that said, the rear spoiler has to be properly tuned. Installing a 10-foot double-decker APC wing backwards on the top of your hatchback is certainly not going to help any.
FWD cars have understeer, RWD cars have oversteer. Increasing drag and downforce on the rear end increases understeer. a rear spoiler helps a RWD car by getting rid of some of the oversteer. putting one on a FWD car thats not equipped with all other spoilers, diffusers, and suspension is ****</TD></TR></TABLE>
Um, no.
Understeer and oversteer have nothing to do with where the drive wheels are.
I make my FWD cars oversteer at every autocross I attend. Similarly, I can make any RWD car understeer like a pig.
Few people want a car to be biased for either understeer or oversteer. In most, if not all cases, a neutral-handling car is best. Stock suspension is typically tuned for understeer, simply for the fact that it is safer for all of the uneducated drivers out there.
And yes, a rear spoiler does benefit a FWD car, particularly during high speed braking. All of the air rushing under the light rear-end of a FWD car creates lift - and when you brake, weigh transfers forward, which further reduces the load on the rear tires. With all of this loss of grip in the rear, the car becomes very unstable. Thus, a spoiler is necessary to create downforce, in order to combat the lift created by air moving underneath the vehicle.
These are the reasons Volkswagen had to add a spoiler to the Audi TT, after drivers complained of the car tending to swap ends during high speed braking. The Volkswagen Beetle Turbo and the Acura Integra Type-R also have rear spoilers for the same reason.
An ITR can actually be quite dangerous at high speeds without its spoiler, as proven by a few members of Honda-Tech who have done HPDEs with a wingless ITR.
Now, with that said, the rear spoiler has to be properly tuned. Installing a 10-foot double-decker APC wing backwards on the top of your hatchback is certainly not going to help any.
12-12-2003, 09:39 AM
#21
Re: (Burke)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Burke »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">12 sec honda for sale
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...69488 </TD></TR></TABLE>
I bet if your civic had a wing on it you might have gotten at least ONE bid.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...69488 </TD></TR></TABLE>
I bet if your civic had a wing on it you might have gotten at least ONE bid.
12-12-2003, 09:48 AM
#22
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Re: (tonyXcom)
yea there were some bids on it, but i ended it early for a local buyer. he was gonna gimme 10g's then his loan fell through. so until he comes up with the cash, its still a work in progress. FYI - i just bought a built z6 and should be hitting 11's by april.
thanks and **** you
thanks and **** you
12-12-2003, 11:05 AM
#24
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Re: (-BEN-)
hey guys have you ever seen the spoiler on the VW corrado? i had one about a year ago, and when you reached a speed of i think it was 47mph a small spoiler popped up in the back. it went through lots of testing when it was built and it was said that it help out a considerable amount at speeds over 50mph. the car is fwd of course.
i think a rear spoiler does just as much on a fwd car than a rwd car if hp numbers are the same.
i think a rear spoiler does just as much on a fwd car than a rwd car if hp numbers are the same.
12-12-2003, 11:10 AM
#25
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Re: (ShadyEH2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ShadyEH2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">putting one on a FWD car thats not equipped with all other spoilers, diffusers, and suspension is ****</TD></TR></TABLE>
obviously you dont know that most cars create more frontal downforce already , sometimes the rear spoiler helps to balance that out.
you actually want aerodynamic understeer , care to tell me why ?
obviously you dont know that most cars create more frontal downforce already , sometimes the rear spoiler helps to balance that out.
you actually want aerodynamic understeer , care to tell me why ?