Eyal 951

Is it at all possible to run a SOHC Vtec motor with a cam (crower stage 2, and crower valvetrain) on stock engine manegment and adj cam gear for a while, or will some sort of fuel management be critical to running it right.
I understand that without a proper tune, the performance will not be there quite as much, but is it possible without leaning out, or running into drivability issues?
If it matters, this is for a Z6 block with PM6 pistons, y8 head with the cam and valvetrain. It is also a daily driver.
Are these good components?
I appreciate any advice or suggestions. I searched, but really didn't find much.

BauleyCivic

Waste of money. Don't do it.

schardbody

if you dont wanna pay for a tune right away dont put the parts on right away, off the bat the higher compression from the mini-me will make a/f leaner, then add all the extra air from the cam, and its even leaner. honestly though, like bauley said, all that wouldnt be worth the trouble. get some colder plugs, retard timing a little, and shot it. bang for the buck best thing you can do.

Eyal 951

Well, money comes out even since I wont have to rebuild one of my z6 heads, and then I have basically 2 complete mini me swaps worth of parts to sell.
This isn't a mini me. This is an engine swap. its a D16z6 motor with y8 head. If there is a difference from the head, were talking less then 5 hp. Its raising compression, and possible cam... Fuel management would come in not too long, but it actually makes it financially easier to just throw the modded head on right away so that I dont have to rebuild one of my z6 heads, install, pull it off, and sell it later. I hope this clears it up a bit more.

schardbody

and you wanted out opinion why, sounds like you already decided what youre going to do, good luck.

lonefuzzy79

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BauleyCivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Waste of money. Don't do it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

And I thought this was a Honda enthusiasts board. Funny that.

Here's the deal dude. Doing all that will cause driveability issues if you don't tune it properly. That will probably mean injectors, ecu tuning or a piggyback of some sort.

It won't be that fast in the end, much quicker, but you aren't going to be beating SS Camaros or WRXs on an NA single cam.

If you want a car that is going to be fun to drive, is rev-happy great for AutoX and canyon driving and you don't care about 1/4 mile times or top-speed runs, go for it and have a fun car. I take it you have an EX or an Si? If not get an Si/EX tranny, makes a big difference in power delivery.

Eyal 951

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by schardbody &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and you wanted out opinion why, sounds like you already decided what youre going to do, good luck.</TD></TR></TABLE>
and I still do. I have made up my mind to purchase, but I have yet to decide what to do about installing it now, or when i have everything. thats what this thread is for. I added the second post to give a better idea of the circumstances.

lonefuzzy79

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eyal 951 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
and I still do. I have made up my mind to purchase, but I have yet to decide what to do about installing it now, or when i have everything. thats what this thread is for. I added the second post to give a better idea of the circumstances.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would not worry about the "opinions" most people have on this board. I have a mountain of parts waiting to be installed simply becuase I don't have the damn time to do it all. Get your parts, and take your time to do it right, doing a hack job will just frustrate you in the end.

Eyal 951

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lonefuzzy79 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And I thought this was a Honda enthusiasts board. Funny that.

Here's the deal dude. Doing all that will cause driveability issues if you don't tune it properly. That will probably mean injectors, ecu tuning or a piggyback of some sort.

It won't be that fast in the end, much quicker, but you aren't going to be beating SS Camaros or WRXs on an NA single cam.

If you want a car that is going to be fun to drive, is rev-happy great for AutoX and canyon driving and you don't care about 1/4 mile times or top-speed runs, go for it and have a fun car. I take it you have an EX or an Si? If not get an Si/EX tranny, makes a big difference in power delivery. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Exactly the kind of post I was looking for, thank you. Based on this kind of information, I will wait until I have piggy back. I'm really not worried about huge power, My other car should be making 350 rwhp and about that in torque in the follwoing months. (when I get around to installing the larger turbo and such)
The civic is just a daily driver. 130-140-150 whp is perfectly fine, I'm not looking to win races, just something thats fun, not to mention the mods are half the fun. The car is a cx. Sucks for no amenities, but it means its 2100 pounds which will help. I do have a si/ex tranny laying around waiting to go in once I finish the motor as well.

lonefuzzy79

Bitchin, With just I/H/E in my cx I can feel the 10hp... It's cool when little gains in power make such a big difference since you are starting with 70bhp. I loved my 944 8v. It was an 83, no power steering. Sounds like you have some fun cars.

BauleyCivic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lonefuzzy79 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And I thought this was a Honda enthusiasts board. Funny that.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Have you ever installed an aftermarket cam in a d-series, then gone to the track/dyno to test the results?

lonefuzzy79

Personally? no. But what does that matter? I have had enough contact with those that have to know that it's not going to be that fast. You are here to moderate posts, not make sure that everyone is getting their best dollar/hp return that they can. Dude wants to build a strong D. Why is that not worth it? Maybe, just maybe, we don't all want boosted D series. My daily grind is working on and selling parts for subarus, I don't have time for my civic.

BauleyCivic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lonefuzzy79 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Personally? no. But what does that matter?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Uh, are you really asking that?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lonefuzzy79 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have had enough contact with those that have to know that it's not going to be that fast.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Right...I agree with you here.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lonefuzzy79 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You are here to moderate posts, not make sure that everyone is getting their best dollar/hp return that they can.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I can post my opinion in any thread I want, ***.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lonefuzzy79 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Dude wants to build a strong D. Why is that not worth it?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Huh? But you just said...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lonefuzzy79 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have had enough contact with those that have to know that it's not going to be that fast.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Riiighht...you did a good job of confusing me. I'm convinced that your subsequent posts will outdo this one though...somehow.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lonefuzzy79 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Maybe, just maybe, we don't all want boosted D series.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, people that don't like going fast. And don't give me the fuel economy argument, I get better mileage turbocharged than I did NA.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lonefuzzy79 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My daily grind is working on and selling parts for subarus, I don't have time for my civic.</TD></TR></TABLE>

What does this have to do with anything? My daily grind is going to school full-time and dealing with vacation rental agencies' websites...do I get a chocolate dog biscuit too?

SkoundrelUSA

I agree that its totally not worth it. You could've probably gotten a complete turbo kit with the money on the entire valvetrain. Then save up a couple hundred to get it tuned. (which you should do even NA)

But if you're a hardcore N/A guy then go for it

Farmer Brown

D serries 4Life Y0!

Yea getting a cam on a SOHC isnt really worth the gains, unless you have something involving forced induction.

Eyal 951

k, the head with all that **** is 375, were not talking about a lot of money, i will make more then that selling off my two vtec heads, intake manifolds dizzies etc... the only extra money here is a second hand hondata setup, so what, 150 for the whole thing? Projects are fun, modding is fun. If I dont gain all that much cause its D series, whatever. Its the car i drive to school and back in, and occasional track (road courses)
I already have one boosted car, and there probably arent many boosted D series that will be able to compare.
The question really wasn't wether the masses of HT agree with my purchases, it was "how will it run" I appreciate you guys looking out for me, but in this case I'm not spending a substancial amount of money. There is almost no loss, so, in this case this isn't much of a financial burden at all.

schardbody

i already answered your how will it run question and you pretty much said "oh well"

Civicse

everyone stop saying all motor D's arn't worth it. if your going for speed then obviously not. but he seems like he just wants something fun to drive, and in that case i say their definately worth it, of course all you turboers are gonna say turbo is super times funner. i hate seeing all these ppl wanting to go n/a d get slammed into having to go boost or swap. my advice, go to http://www.d-series.org

schardbody

umm, its only worth it for experience really, a slow car is not a fun car, no if ands or buts about it, boosting a D is all you can do to make it "fast".

Sketch_hs

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BauleyCivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Waste of money. Don't do it.</TD></TR></TABLE>



boost is the only way

Civicse

well thats just your opinion. i hear a lot of ppl talk about there n/a d's being fun to drive. R&D racing has a n/a d pulling 210hp and 171lbs of tq. so obviously there are other things to make them faster other than turbo. just a shitload more work and money, which i'm not arguing about. turbo is the best bang for the buck, we get it. if everyone on h-t doesn't know this by now they should be punched in the braces

schardbody

ok, yeah, i should have said boosting the D is the only "practical" thing to do. im not saying everyone has the same goals but after spending $1000 easy on a N/A build nobody is going to be happy w/ the results. a car can be fun to drive and slow, but not usually.

Eyal 951

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sketch_hs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

boost is the only way</TD></TR></TABLE>
K, thanks... look at my sig. 400 HP 944 turbo and it weighs 2800 pounds (probably gonna get lighter too), I don't need a fast daily driver, just something to put around in thats fun. This car will probably be faster than an Integra GSR with I/H/E. Granted, thats not all that fast either, but that sure as hell is enough for my everyday car. If I want to destroy a zo6, I can step into my other car.

Do you guys understand now that I don't want to boost this motor? I also don't want to spend the $ it takes to boost this motor. I also don't want to deal with the reliablity issues, and constant tuning issues involved with boosting this motor.

I understand you guys are trying to help by giving your thoughts, but I posted a few times, I want NA.

Civicse

like i said before go to d-series.org. they answerd all my n/a d questions without anyone saying go turbo. crower is a very good company i would definately go with their cam. zex/comp cams also a good company. what kind of compression are you looking for? your setup looks pretty good to me. without tuning from a dyno you should be able to run it alright, just not the best like you said. just maybe advance the ignition a little.

Eyal 951

I think compression will sit around 11.0. PM6, 2 layer HG should do that. I can mill for more if I want to, but I don't think I will.
Is this enough compression for such a cam?