quad

Ok, I have a 2000 Honda Civic LX 4AT 4dr.
- 140k miles
- replaced o2 sensor a few years back
- replaced timing belt two months ago (well overdue)


It all started about a week ago. I was backing out of my driveway when my car died.

I tried starting my car and it just cranks and cranks.

I checked for spark, no spark. I followed the guide for checking my dizzy. My coil tested good. I tested my ECM, determined it was bad and replaced it. I checked the fuses that seemed to have anything to do with ignition and they are good.

I also replaced the spark plugs because they were shot. I used the exact NGK plugs when I replaced them.

Ok, now I'm getting spark and my car still won't start.

It just cranks and cranks like a normal engine, it just doesn't start.

I can smell fuel when trying to start my car so I figure I'm getting fuel. I have no idea how to check for proper fuel pressure.

When I turn the key on I can hear the fuel pump kick on and my check engine light comes on. After about 2-3 seconds my fuel pump kicks off and my check engine light goes off.

I also took off my air filter and sprayed some starting fluid into the intake and it still doesn't start.

I'm running out of ideas......

thanks,
quad

antiricer

did you check your main relay

quad

I pulled out the Main Relay this morning. I will try to test it with an ohm meter today while at work.

Searching for the pin out now.

evilsolb16

if main relay was bad the fuel pump would not turn on. do you have any codes? have you check timing you may have jumped a tooth. did you take off you spark plug wires. if so did you put them back in the right fireing order?

quad

No I don't have any codes. I guess I will try that when I get home.

Ok, so you are saying if the fuel pump is cutting on and off it's not the Main Relay. That's one more problem to eliminate.

I'll keep reading about getting codes.

I found a post from JDMLyfeStyle I'll look for this plug when I get home.

According to his post I should have a OBDIIb because I have a 2000 Civic. It also says I have three connectors. I guess they are all under the carpet of the passenger kick panel.

thanks,
quad

evilsolb16

when you first turn the key to the on postion without starting it the fuel pump should come on to prime the fuel system. when the system is primed then the pump will turn off untill the car is turned on and running. so the main relay is not to blame.

bmoua

i had similiar problem but it was becuz of the dizzy/timing....grab a timing light and check your timing bro...

evilsolb16

the car doesnt run so he cant use a timing light, he will have to check machinical timing. he may have to firing order wrong if he told off the plug wires, and didnt put them back right.

quad

I changed the plugs one at a time to make sure I didn't mix up the wires. Also, the way the wires are laid out, they can't go to the wrong plug, it would be too obvious.

I never removed the other end of the wires, the end connected to the dizzy.

I don't know how to check the timing, but it sounds like I'd better start searching how because my problem keeps leaning towards a timing problem.

Now when I removed the dizzy, I did mark it where it needed to be before unbolting it. I didn't mark the rotor. After looking at it, the piece that fits inside the motor can only go one of two ways. So, I tried both ways and I could only get it on one way, so I figured I have it on properly. If I didn't put it on properly, then it would make sense that it would be 180 degrees out of timing.

Can anyone verify if it can be put on wrong. Sorry but I don't know the proper names of all of the parts.

Let me try to clarify what exactly I'm talking about.

When you unbolt your dizzy (the 3 - 12mm bolts) an pull it off of the engine. The piece that come out of the engine has two notches on it. It can only go back two different way because of the notches to line up with the groves.

Like I said, I tried putting it on both ways and it seemed to only go on one way. If no one can verify this I may go home and try it again to put it on the other way to double check myself.

thanks,
quad

quad

Ok, I tried and tried but can only get the dizzy to mount one way. I guess this is done for the reason of not getting it mixed up.

So I tried getting the codes just like pdiggitydogg says. https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/1901557

Heres the catch. I jump the connector and I get a solid check engine light. It does not blink at all.

Any idea what that means? My wires are brown and black like in the picture for the EK.

Would a non-blinking light mean it's not picking up any bad code?

The SRS light goes off the comes back on once. If I leave the key on and pull the jumper both the check engine light and the SRS light go out.

thanks,
quad


Modified by quad at 5:03 PM 3/13/2007

quad

I'm still trying to figure out how to check the mechanical timing.

Someone also told me to check the camshaft sensor. Does a civic have one and what does it look like?

Still trying to get my car running.

thanks,
quad

evilsolb16

with machanical timing you need to put cyl.1 at tdc (top dead center) then check you camshaft to make sure that it is lined up with the marks on the head. i know that on obd 1 hondas have camshaft sensors in the dizzy. with obd2 there may be one in the dizzy. if not then there may be a crankshaft positioning sensor by the crank pully.

b16nonoy

check your dizzy....take out a spark plug wire from the spark plug end...stick a screw driver in it...and put the screw driver by a metal surface on your chassis...crank the car and see if you have spark...

quad

Well I just verified that all four spark plugs are getting fire.

I took out all four spark plugs, set them on the manifold and had someone else turn the key. I had a pretty little light show since it's dark here.

quad

Is this normal?

If I turn the key to the on position and leave it, I can hear some type of buzzing sound. Maybe like some sort of pump running or something.

I can't put my finger exactly on it. It's coming from around the air intake.

Any ideas? This maybe normal for all I know.

thanks

quad

Well I found out that the Crankshaft Position/Top Dead Center/Cylinder Position Sensor is found in the distributor cap.

quad

If I'm getting fuel at the rail, I guess it's safe to say I'm getting fuel to the engine, right?

quad

Could this be the problem?

I unplugged the neg battery cable when I reconnected my main relay.

I guess that cleared my codes and I can't get any new codes because my car won't start.

As far as the OBD2 scanning tools, does your car have to be running for it to work?

or Does it work just by turning the key to the on position?

evilsolb16

to check code the key has to be at the on position, just cause you get fuel to the fuel rail doesnt mean that you are getting it in the motor. if the injectors are not spraying then the motor wont have fuel

quad

RECAP
Ok, it's time for me to rule out some possible causes......

I verified spark to all four plugs - so the problem has nothing to do with the dizzy

I verified my fuel pump comes on then off when I put the key in the on position.

I verified I can hear my main relay click 1st when I put my key in the on position and second when the fuel pump cuts off.

******************************************

What I need to verify
- fuel getting to the engine
- the timing

am I missing anything?

What's the best way to verify I'm getting fuel to the engine? I can smell fuel when I try cranking the engine. Do I need to buy some type of pressure gage and get a reading of the fuel pressure?

Since the car doesn't run I need to check the mechanical timing. This sounds like a tough job.
Do I need to remove all of the belts to be able to see if the camshaft is lined up with the marks on the head?

I tried spraying starting fluid into the intake then crank the engine, still nothing.

Is there something I'm leaving out?

If I'm getting spark can I rule out fuses? I did check a few but I have no idea how many fuses effect the ignition system.

I have a computer coming in Friday evening, hopefully that will help.

I tried getting CEL codes but all I get is a constant check engine light, I'm guessing it's because it cleared the codes when I disconnected the battery earlier.

I'm trying to come up with a plan and get everything I need before hand so when Saturday comes I'll have everything to troubleshoot and hopefully fix my car.

thanks,
quad

evilsolb16

to see it you are getting fuel in the motor try starting it then take out a spark plug and smell it or see if there is gas on it. i would say try and do a compression test. there are 4 things needed for a motor to run. 1) air,2)fuel,3)spark,4)compression. if you have all of them then it should start may not run that great or for that long but it should.