93EH6

I have done a rear disc swap from a 93 del sol si to a 92 civic dx and i was wondering if i needed to change the master cylinder as well cause i was told i didn't but i was having a problem with it here is the thread https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=715844 i bled the brakes for the forth time and fixed the one leak that it had it has fine pedal pressure when the car is not on so i know it is bled right but the pedal pressure goes away right when i start the car so i was wondering if i needed to change the master cylinder


Also does anyone have experience with the del sol ebrake cables on a hatch cause mine arn't long enough???

FF DRFT

u need to change the proportioning valve. that's it. u might have to build a custom-bracket for the ebrake cable also.

93EH6

will that help cause it is mushy when the car is on but not when it is off so will that fix the problem

Hybrid96EK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93EH6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">will that help cause it is mushy when the car is on but not when it is off so will that fix the problem</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is your second thread on this issue? Just start one. No need for two.

Hybrid96EK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by e1even &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">u need to change the proportioning valve. that's it. u might have to build a custom-bracket for the ebrake cable also. </TD></TR></TABLE>

And no, you don't need to change the porp valve. Should you? Yes, certainly. Ideally you should convert the whole system over to match. But do you need to change the porp valve, no. Will it solve his issue? No.

93EH6

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid93Eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

This is your second thread on this issue? Just start one. No need for two.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sorry man this is a different question and my experience with putting a second question in the middle of a thread is that it doesn't get answered

AzntaggeR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93EH6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also does anyone have experience with the del sol ebrake cables on a hatch cause mine arn't long enough???</TD></TR></TABLE>

you will have to get the e-brake cables from a 92-95 civic Si. whenever you do a rear disc brake conversion you have to get the e-brake cables for the model of your car with rear disc brakes. example: when i put rear disc brakes from an integra on my del sol i had to order my e-brake cables for a del sol si or vtec. also, the e-brake cables that were on ur drum brakes will not work with your rear disc brakes.

as for me, i didn't change anything such as the master cyllinder, brake booster, prop. valve and it works fine. hope that helps.

kommon_sense

In order to do this conversion *CORRECTLY* you need the following :

1) Master Cylinder + Booster from donor or 92-95SI
2) Prop valve from 92-95SI
3) E-brake cables from either 92-95SI or 92-95EX w/ABS

Drews Bitch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kommon_sense &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In order to do this conversion *CORRECTLY*</TD></TR></TABLE>

*CORRECTLY* is the key word here
i've been driving around using my stock HX master cyl and i have a gsr set-up on all 4 corners.
i'm <U>not</U> saying this is the right way however i've been driving like this for 3 months now and i have'nt had any problems.
sad thing is i have a gsr MC and i'm just to lazy to put on on

kommon_sense

I just feel that brakes are too important to do halfway. Do them right, or leave them stock.

Jim Truett

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kommon_sense &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I just feel that brakes are too important to do halfway. Do them right, or leave them stock.</TD></TR></TABLE>

No ****! It really bothers me that I know I am sharing the road with people who have half-*** brake setups.

Why would you want residual pressure on your rear discs simply because you don't want to change the proportioning valve? It will lead to increased pad wear and they will not engage at the proper time in relation to the front.

Shocka1998LX

I just bought a swap from someone. It comes with trailing arms, the hubs, rotors, calipers, master brake cylinder, prop valve, and ebrake cables. Is this all I need? All from a 2000 civic si. Someone was telling me about some rubber hoses in the wheel wells?

Jim Truett

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Shocka1998LX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I just bought a swap from someone. It comes with trailing arms, the hubs, rotors, calipers, master brake cylinder, prop valve, and ebrake cables. Is this all I need? All from a 2000 civic si. Someone was telling me about some rubber hoses in the wheel wells?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, the hydraulic hose that connects the caliper to the brake line on the chassis. You will need two, one for each side.

Hybrid96EK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jim Truett &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

No ****! It really bothers me that I know I am sharing the road with people who have half-*** brake setups.

Why would you want residual pressure on your rear discs simply because you don't want to change the proportioning valve? It will lead to increased pad wear and they will not engage at the proper time in relation to the front. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Porp valve has nothing to do with residule pressure. Not changing it will simply make the rear brakes less effective as it will not allow for increased fluid flow. Disc brakes require more hydraulic pressure then drums to work. Thats the idea behind the porp valve.

Shocka1998LX

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jim Truett &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yeah, the hydraulic hose that connects the caliper to the brake line on the chassis. You will need two, one for each side.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Do I have to have that exact hose? Can I get it at autozone or something instead?

Jim Truett

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid93Eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Porp valve has nothing to do with residule pressure. Not changing it will simply make the rear brakes less effective as it will not allow for increased fluid flow. Disc brakes require more hydraulic pressure then drums to work. Thats the idea behind the porp valve.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Generally, there are two kinds of proportioning valves when dealing with rear drum brakes. One would operate in the "hold off" method. this valve delays fluid flow to the front discs until the rear drums develop a pre-determined amount of pressure. The other is a "residual pressure" method. This holds around 10psi on the rear drums to allow for faster drum engagement.

Hybrid96EK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jim Truett &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Generally, there are two kinds of proportioning valves when dealing with rear drum brakes. One would operate in the "hold off" method. this valve delays fluid flow to the front discs until the rear drums develop a pre-determined amount of pressure. The other is a "residual pressure" method. This holds around 10psi on the rear drums to allow for faster drum engagement.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Your terminology is actually incorrect. The first valve you have described is not actually a porp valve, its called a metering valve. Metering valves are primarly used on front disc/rear drum setups on rwd vehicles. It basically delays pressure to the front because disc brakes are "fast acting" where as drums are slower acting due to spring tension and linkage clearance that they must first overcome. Its important to understand that this is NOT a proportioning valve. A proportioning valve controls the actual PRESSURE that is sent to either the front or rear brakes.

The second type of valve you are talking about is a residule check valve. These are the oldest types of valves used on four wheel drum setups. I gaurantee you he won't have this on his civic.

I am ASE certified in a few areas, one of the happens to be brake systems

Edit: Again, not changing the proportioning valve is not going to make or break your setup in this case. The difference is minimal between a 4030 and a 4040 poroportioning valve. Should it be done? Yes, you should always match the components in the system. My point is simply that there is no need for someone to get "pissed off" because someone failed to change the proportioning vavle on his civic when he did a brake upgrade.

kommon_sense

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid93Eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Edit: Again, not changing the proportioning valve is not going to make or break your setup in this case. The difference is minimal between a 4030 and a 4040 poroportioning valve. Should it be done? Yes, you should always match the components in the system. My point is simply that there is no need for someone to get "pissed off" because someone failed to change the proportioning vavle on his civic when he did a brake upgrade. </TD></TR></TABLE>

This statement may be true when braking in a straight line, but things change when braking while cornering/turning. No one is here to upgrade their car to drive like grandma. If you don't change the prop valve, you can end up in a situation where the rears lock-up faster than the fronts which is not good in the middle of a corner.

Also, not changing the mc/booster can actually make your braking worse than the stock setup. Whether you are braking in a straight line or whatever.

Hybrid96EK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kommon_sense &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

This statement may be true when braking in a straight line, but things change when braking while cornering/turning. No one is here to upgrade their car to drive like grandma. If you don't change the prop valve, you can end up in a situation where the rears lock-up faster than the fronts which is not good in the middle of a corner.

Also, not changing the mc/booster can actually make your braking worse than the stock setup. Whether you are braking in a straight line or whatever.</TD></TR></TABLE>

All the 4040 proportioning valve does is allow more pressure to reach the rear brakes. I don't know why people say it will cause the rears to lock up first? I put the rear swap ONLY on my hatch and tested this out on several surfaces and in different conditions. I could NEVER get the rears to lock up before the fronts and I tried as hard as I could. I drove this setup for a couple weeks on the stock MC and booster and never had any issues. The pedal felt exactly the same as with the drums.

Assuming ALL he changes are the rears, then please explain to me how not changing the master cylinder or booster will make braking worse?

street dreams

out of all these post no one has really answer this guys question. now as far as the master cylinder goes it might have went bad or was already bad but if i where u i would look up the thread about the 91 civic ex mc on the 92-95 brake booster i did it and it works great its a 15\16 mc instead of the 92-95 civic mc w/ is a 13/16 i think and as far as the proportioning valve goes there is no needto change it but it is recommend. but i did not change mine because i could not get the brake lines off but it still stops fine

hope this answers your ?

Hybrid96EK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by streetdreams02 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">out of all these post no one has really answer this guys question. now as far as the master cylinder goes it might have went bad or was already bad but if i where u i would look up the thread about the 91 civic ex mc on the 92-95 brake booster i did it and it works great its a 15\16 mc instead of the 92-95 civic mc w/ is a 13/16 i think and as far as the proportioning valve goes there is no needto change it but it is recommend. but i did not change mine because i could not get the brake lines off but it still stops fine

hope this answers your ?</TD></TR></TABLE>

You reviewed everything I already said. And yes, I did answer his question. He put the parking brake cables on and it works perfectly.

. o 69 o .

if your pedal is mooshie, you possibly have a brake fluid contamination problem. possibly water in the line, or just plain dirty fluid. check there as well.

93EH6

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by streetdreams02 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">out of all these post no one has really answer this guys question. now as far as the master cylinder goes it might have went bad or was already bad but if i where u i would look up the thread about the 91 civic ex mc on the 92-95 brake booster i did it and it works great its a 15\16 mc instead of the 92-95 civic mc w/ is a 13/16 i think and as far as the proportioning valve goes there is no needto change it but it is recommend. but i did not change mine because i could not get the brake lines off but it still stops fine

hope this answers your ?</TD></TR></TABLE>

well since the one off the del sol is a 13/15 also it makes no difference

93EH6

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid93Eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You reviewed everything I already said. And yes, I did answer his question. He put the parking brake cables on and it works perfectly.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yep you are right everyone else i wrong

street dreams

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid93Eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You reviewed everything I already said. And yes, I did answer his question. He put the parking brake cables on and it works perfectly.</TD></TR></TABLE>

thats because we posated at the same time so i did not see your post