ekillah

just a quick question i heard around that it would be better to boost a dx d16 non vtech... rather then to boost a ex dseries with vtech. is this true?

Libertariat

the non-vtec has lower compression, so theoretically you could boost it more. But IMO just use whichever one is in better condition.

6 of one, half dozen of another. Doesn't matter.

99 Civic EX

the ex d16y8 would have better gearing though, i would say go with the ex motor but non-vtec or vtec just buy whichever you can readily get thats in better condition.

bcpEG

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ekillah &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">just a quick question i heard around that it would be better to boost a dx d16 non vtech... rather then to boost a ex dseries with vtech. is this true? </TD></TR></TABLE>

vtech

sharik

also, the dx has longer gears, better for boost

Libertariat

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sharik &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">also, the dx has longer gears, better for boost</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's a myth. In any sohc setup none of the gears are too short unless you hacve custom ratios. All the d-series oem ratios blow, some are slightly better, but none short enough to limit boost potential.

the difference between an ex tranny and a dx tranny is minimal. I've driven both on my current car.

For intents and purposes, either will work. I recommend whichever is in better condition.

JDM_SOHC

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ek forever guy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That's a myth. In any sohc setup none of the gears are too short unless you hacve custom ratios. All the d-series oem ratios blow, some are slightly better, but none short enough to limit boost potential.</TD></TR></TABLE>

False my friend... Thats a fact...

Short Gears = Faster Acceleration
Longer Gears = Shitty Acceleration but being in gear longer results in more boost

some mista bone info for ya..

EX/Si
1st-----3.250
2nd-----1.900
3rd-----1.250
4th-----0.909
5th-----0.750 for Si HB and Del sol Si
or------0.702 for 2 dr or 4 dr sedan
Final Drive---4.250

DX/LX
1st-----3.250
2nd-----1.762
3rd-----1.172
4th-----0.909
5th-----0.702
Final Drive---4.058

CX /VX
1st-----3.250
2nd-----1.761
3rd-----1.066
4th-----0.853
5th-----0.702
Final Drive---3.250


from the DX to EX tranny
1st is the same
2nd is shorter in the EX
3rd is a tad shorter in the EX
4th and 5th same

but the main thing is Final Drive

a 4.058 DX to a 4.250EX is a pretty big difference...

With that said, i think u can see for urself that there are infact noticeable differences in tranny ratios..

Also, here are the speed/shiftpoints at full throttle in each of the trannys.. "also mista bone's info"

DX
1st----3.250---0000/6800---34.8mph
2nd---1.761---3685/6800---64.3mph
3rd----1.172---4526/6800---96.9mph
4th----0.909---5274/6800---124.5mph
5th----0.702---5251/6800---161.3mph

Si/EX
1st----3.250---0000/7200---35.2mph
2nd---1.900---4209/7200---60.2mph
3rd----1.250---4739/7200---91.6mph
4th----0.909---5236/7200---125.9mph
Choose your 5th
5th----0.702---5560/7200---163.0mph
5th----0.750---5941/7200---152.6mph
5th----0.771---6107/7200---148.4mph

Hybrid using ZC 3rd and 4th gears
1st----3.250---0000/7200---35.2mph
2nd---1.900---4209/7200---60.2mph
3rd----1.346---5101/7200---85.0mph
4th----1.033---5526/7200---110.7mph
5th----0.750---5228/7200---152.5mph


I think its clear enough to see that for speed/acceleration you should go with the EX/SI tranny... But if gas mileage and staying in boost are your goals than you could persue a DX tranny...

darkelvis

ding ding ding...
we have a winner folks.

JDM_SOHC

also you wanna take into consideration turbo size... cuz if you didnt know, the bigger the turbo you go, the higher the rpms your gonna feel it... in other words, your rpms are gonna drop on their face if you go with to long of gears and a bigger turbo... a little t25 which pretty much spools right away would be perfect for a DX long geared tranny cuz ur boosting almost instantly so that boost allows extra help to get those rpms up... however; i've had every tranny that would fit on a single cam on all my single cams, and the 95 ex/si tranny for me is by far the best one i've had "and still have".. even with my D15B rockin the T3/T4, when i shift at 8 grand im pretty much shifting right back into full boost... stock rev'd ECU, and DX tranny, I bet i'd be falling all On My FiZzZace.... Hope I helped...

ekillah

so umm... the engine really doesnt matter, whats really important is what tranny to go with. am i correct?

Libertariat

then tell me why my roomate's boosted LS setup at 350whp gained A WHOLE SECOND in the 1/4 mile by switching from an LS tranny to an Itr tranny,.


YES at a certain point longer gears do help. But unless your hitting sub 10's you shouldn't be worried about having longer gears. For anyone slower than 12 seconds the faster geared tranny is USUALLY optimal.

ekillah

so does vtech matter?

DCSportEJ1Civic

all vtec is, is a higher cam lobe, you could boost a non vtec and upgrade the cam. its kinda like being in vtec all the time. but this doesnt compensate for the other differences between the two motors. this only explains the vtec, non vtec aspect. and this is a vague description. but hopefully it will help you understand what your asking.

shadohconspiracy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ekillah &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so does vtech matter?</TD></TR></TABLE>

its
VTEC damn it

DCSportEJ1Civic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ekillah &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so does vtech matter?</TD></TR></TABLE>

if you have it yes, if not no. if you dont have vtec tuning is easier. why do you think so many people prefer to boost ls motors instead of gsr's. theres less **** to deal with.

99 Civic EX

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DCSportEJ1Civic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

if you have it yes, if not no. if you dont have vtec tuning is easier. why do you think so many people prefer to boost ls motors instead of gsr's. theres less **** to deal with.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i think people boost ls motors because of lower compression and its cheaper, however vtec heads flow better and the gearing is tighter, its not necessarily that there is less stuff to deal with.

JDM_SOHC

TRY AGAIN MUDDAFUKKA..!! lol j/k dude, but yeah ur wrong.. engine does matter to a certain extent... D15B's on record, are known to be pushed to 8k redline, ur d16z6 on the other hand is rated to only be pushed to 7200, you could just tune it and reset redline to 8 grand, but for me that wasnt good enough. I wanted a motor that I KNEW would handle the extra power while at the powerbands tip.. And D16Y8's are known for their shitty oil component setup so I wouldnt even waste my time with one... D16Z6 or D15B would be you'r best bang for the buck...

Now take into consideration the tranny ratio's I gave you... You're not gonna want a tranny that takes forever to max out, with a motor thats built for high rev's, your gonna wanna get to that max rev as fast as possible...

Not necessarily... I've confirmed with my tuner that actually if you have VTEC it makes tuning easier... The older tuning programs that are somewhat outdated with newer technology made it hard to use for most VTEC app's but todays tuning programs have within themselves specific tools for Boost and Vtec... And my tuner claimed, that when you have vtec its easier to set ur idle while tuning, not sure why but he's pretty smart so I believe him...

Well what you meant to say was YOU wouldnt be worried about it, but this guy asked for the best bang for the buck so im just giving him info tryna get him as quick an ET as possible... And if that means EX tranny over DX tranny, than im gonna tell'm that and give plenty of supporting info..

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong... lol...

EX motors arent proven anywhere to have better "gearing", and as far as goin with an EX motor but not sure Vtec or non Vtec, you dont really have a choice considering all civic ex motors are vtec...

D16Y7 would be a huge waste of time IMO, comparing to all the other readily available motors and parts... If you're goin boost i'd actually recommend a single cam vtec motor... 92-00 ex/si or D15B....

You can build any motor to make any substantial power, but trust me trial and error has proved that single cam vtec motors are the better of the bunch to boost... Usually just a little more aggressive... But that little more, might just be enough to make the difference to ya... GL dude...

Edit: I kno some are gonna say on this one, an throw the D16A6 out there as the best to boost, but lets take into good consideration... You think your gonna find a D16A6 with under 100k miles on it..?? One that's ready to be boosted without being built first now that were in 2007 considering those motors are like ancient... And with a good tune, like REALLY good tune, your z6 or d15b will handle that **** just fine... Just make sure to do you'r precautionary checks... "compression, fuel, ect.."

Libertariat

The d16z6 is the motor of choice for boost often enough.

And the EX DOES have shorter gearing than the y7 tranny. Why are you arguing that slower gearing is going to make him faster? How long he is actually in boost has nothing to do with that.

The difference in gearing is minimal however.

JDM_SOHC

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ek forever guy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The d16z6 is the motor of choice for boost often enough.

And the EX DOES have shorter gearing than the y7 tranny. Why are you arguing that slower gearing is going to make him faster? How long he is actually in boost has nothing to do with that.

The difference in gearing is minimal however.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I know the EX has shorter gears, and i supplied the information to prove my statement..?? I'm not sure what ur talking about...?? If ur talkin about the guy that said the EX has BETTER gearing, than ur both wrong because he didnt say that the TRANNY had better gearing, he said the MOTOR had better gearing... And nowhere in this world is there any written statements that prove a Y8 to have anything better than a Z6... If anything it would be the Z6 over the Y8.... Now if we're talking about tranny's i'd still take my chances with a Z6 tranny and steel shift forks that break, instead of the Y8 and aluminum shift forks that bend.... But thats just me...

I have plenty of supporting information if you'd like to see...??

Also, D16Y8's have smaller combustion chambers which resist detonation, but the ports are tiny and they're offset "often called Swirl Ports".. Unlike the D16Z6 which has straight ports "tumble ports" which are made for wayyyy better flow... And with that said I'm sure if you could put 2 and 2 together ud see that since the ports are **** in the Y8 thats SEVERELY gonna affect your top end... D16Z6 is gonna be better for ur high end power, flow, and rpm..

Libertariat

^^ Either way, both motors have been tried and trued to make reliable turbo setups.

And that bent shift fork talk is absolute nonsense. Find me more than 2 threads in the entire history of this website entailing anything other than simply concerns. Happy searching.

Get off my case, what is your beef?

JDM_SOHC

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ek forever guy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">^^ Either way, both motors have been tried and trued to make reliable turbo setups.

And that bent shift fork talk is absolute nonsense. Find me more than 2 threads in the entire history of this website entailing anything other than simply concerns. Happy searching.

Get off my case, what is your beef?</TD></TR></TABLE>

well dude, i never have had beef wit u i just figured id drop in my .02 on some facts.... u disagreed but wtf bro, thats why they're called FACTS... because they have been proven and recorded... i dont tell people B/S just to make'm feel good, i tell'm **** i KNOW to further their education in the game... im not hating on u, and i've actually agreed with and commented you on tons of **** you've done before... sideskirts and grill paintjob

and yo, I bent a shift fork and I'm sure i'm not the only other person in the world whos done it... i actually found out that i wasnt by searching on here and finding out that it was normal with y8 trannys, thats why i went back to a z6 tranny...

i have no beef wit u dude, i just dont understand why u keep dissin my info when its all proven ****...

Libertariat

I'm not dissing your info man. I'm just telling what you're leaving off. For 99% of people boosting d-series the shortest tranny will be most beneficial.

Longer gears are only necessary when you start shifting into 5th at trap time.

In all I've found TWO, in the entire history of the largest honda site there is of broken/bent shift forks. One was a steel breaking, and the other one bending. Either way you have to dismantle the tranny to fix it.

Six of one, half-dozen of another.

I don't think I'm spurting BS man, i don't like to fill empty cups with hopeless dreams. I always try to add a little reality. Because I've been there. Not necessarily for car stuff, but life in general. We both need to take a chill pill.

JDM_SOHC

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ek forever guy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I don't think I'm spurting BS man, i don't like to fill empty cups with hopeless dreams. I always try to add a little reality. Because I've been there. Not necessarily for car stuff, but life in general. We both need to take a chill pill.</TD></TR></TABLE>

agreed.....

and just as luck may have it, i found some chill pills for us..

JDM_SOHC

also dude, i wasnt tryna claim dx better than ex, just claimin that its gears are about as long as I-95... haha.... i've had ex/si tranny's like 10/1 over dx trannys and ill stay that way.. i love short gears, i was just offering different routes and what to expect upon entering those realms of long geared trannys...

redlinexd

so a greddy/edelbrok turbo that fits on a d16 will fit on ANY d series?