Ryan...

Hey everyone, I'm looking to pick up a Civic in the next couple days to replace my WRX.


Why am I replacing my WRX that I love wholeheartedly? Because bills are catching up, rent is stupid expensive, and I have to start paying off my college loans

Before I begin with the noob questions, let me begin by saying that I'm new to Hondas, but not forum life. I know to search, I know how to search, but the Honda world is so new to me I hardly know where to begin and it's a tad overwhelming. Apparently 30k posts on BMW and Subaru forums dont do squat for learning about Honda powertrains!


There are two cars I'm looking at right now:

1) 1997 Civic that has 209k on the chassis, supposedly has 120k or so on the engine/trans. I know these cars have a B16 motor in it, and the seller is telling me is a Y8 head with Vtec. If that's the case, wouldn't it say "VTEC" on the engine? He would be throwing in $2k on top of his car for my 02 WRX with 213k. (the paint doesn't bother me, I would actually love to learn to paint and this would be the perfect opportunity)
The car in question:





Does that look like a Y8 head? How would I tell other than bringing it to a Honda smart indy shop?





2) The second car is a 2000 Civic SI, blue, with over 200k on the stock motor/trans. He would be adding $1k on top. I know Hondas are damn near bulletproof when maintained so I'm not too worried about the mileage.
Insight into which car you guys would prefer would be nice as would the reason for your decisions!

ej6fade

In 100% honesty, go with the Si. If it has been well maintained, 200k isn't too bad. My dad's 1984 honda accord has been babied, his first car, since he got it, 418k original miles, original motor, only things changed were maintenance items (tires, brake pads, clutch, etc). Still runs perfect, purrs like a kitten. Ironically, within my immediate family, it is the most reliable car aside from my sibling's new 2014 honda fit.

The first one looks like it has been cheaply "built" so to speak, it does look like a d16y8, but I see an ebay strut bar, cheap HID kit, cheap ebay lip, look like konig rims? (rpf1 replicas), and that paint is awful.

I got fucked when I bought my hatch, I didn't know much about cars at 17, "supposedly 127k miles" on the d16y7, threw a rod 10k miles later, my suspension was shot, brakes shot, had the airbag harness removed so I know they had an aftermarket steering wheel set up but didn't fix the srs system, etc (who cuts the damn harnesses? lol), it was in an unreported accident as my radiator support is bent and my radiator was bent. but it is now a money pit and I learned to love it. If i could do it again, I would have looked around more.I'd go with number 2, the 2000 civic si. Even IF the engine in the Si HAD to be rebuilt, OEM or all motor or turbo, imo you would already have the better engine in your car to start with over the d series. The Si looks much cleaner and in better condition, which says a lot about the owner. Is it a genuine Si or a clone the guy/chick is passing off as an Si? Did you get a car fax report and what not? any more pictures of the si?

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

Si all day every day until the end of days over that haggard 97. the 97 looks like a dx, so it has a "mini me" swap (dx block ex head). at those miles, i doubt the motor has been totally swapped, likely just the head. the dx does not have power windows, sunroof, and the front end off the 97 doesn't look as good as the 99-00. the 97 has a D16, not a B16. the si has a b16, and stock for stock is WAY more fun to drive. i see illinois plates on the 97. if you live anywhere near cook county, invest in security for either, especially the si. for either car, request proof of the last timing belt/water pump change, or plan to do both immediately.

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

also, the si is worth twice as much as the 97.

ej6fade

I would also suggest visiting the different sections of Honda-tech, like the suspension/brakes section, 1992-2000 civic section, transmission section, etc. and read the stickies if you haven't already, tons of helpful information, especially since you are new to hondas. Welcome to the forum

96ek.ninja

iTrader: (1)

Hmm let me get this straight, you are trying to trade your wrx in for a civic si(I think we all agree this is the car to go with) and $1000 to help pay for bills, rent and college loans?

First of all you don't even know how hard this thing has been driven and would be taking a huge risk that could cost you more than $1000 to fix potentially, if something were wrong with it.

Second, $1000 isn't gonna help you out with anything. Why not stick with the wrx you have now(which you apparently love), which I am also assuming, that you have had for awhile(took care of it) and just work on a better smarter budgeting plan of your money?

Your post just caught my eye but how exactly is $1000 and a car you have no idea about supposed to help you pay off your bills? 2 cents...

Ryan...

The possibility of getting a POS was kind of what I was worried about regarding the 97, I've had some hack jobs in my life that were unbearable.. Thank you for your insight and I appreciate your comment!

This is the only other pic I can pull off my phone:




Ok, I wasn't sure exactly how big of a difference the mileage part would play. KBB isn't very reliable when it comes to cars like this.


It's not that the $1000 is going to help pay off many bills, but getting rid of that car payment and full coverage for the next 7 months would be HUGE for me right now. I moved to Madison where my rent is 2x what it was up at school, my work commute is almost 2x longer, and my student loans are starting up. The extra $300/month the WRX is costing me just isn't really feasible right now.

The WRX also has some issues which is why it's cheap as it is, needs a new turbo very soon, front rotors are both warped, needs summer tires, bad exhaust leak, and other small misc issues that I can really afford to deal with right now.



You raise a good point about how the SI has been treated. So far my gut feeling from talking to the guy is that he's been very honest with me. I know buying any car is taking a chance (I used to buy and sell cheap e36s and even an M5 that I flipped), so I take my time and really look them over and ask questions.



I really appreciate the answers everyone, and I'm most definitely looking at the SI harder and I'll be sure to read up on them more in the next couple days before making a decision!

deschlong

iTrader: (8)

Something to remember is that many, many Civic owners are cheap and poor. That is why they own a Civic. Ergo, when a lot of Civic owners start to do mods to their vehicles, the mods are also cheap and poorly done. This is the rule, not the exception.

Therefore, when you see a vehicle advertised such as that 1997 with the **** paint job and some bullshit about a head swap, approach it with the attitude that **** work was performed by someone who is cheap and poor. Possibly (probably) they are even selling it because they can't get something to run properly or there are problems they can't fix because they're too dumb, too poor, too cheap, or some combination of the three. Also, they probably "lost interest" in their project mid-way through, which means a bunch of stuff was probably half-assed or left incomplete. On top of it all, plenty of these same hosers over-value their cars by like 5-fold. Someone with experience in Hondas might be able to turn that POS around, however this is not you at the moment and since you need reliable transportation in the near term. You should "next" that junker and find something that looks more stock-like and unmolested.

Which brings us to the Si. This is the top-of-the-line Civic from the era, and hold their value well if they remain stock and well-maintained. Depending on what buddy's asking price is, you may have actually found a gem worthy of considering. Do your research, for sure, but don't wait too long because if it's a good deal then it will be snapped up quite quickly.

tercel95

Very well put sir!

As for the SI when you go to look at it just keep an eye out for red flags. The only one I saw in the pictures you posted was the OEM front lip is missing. You can still get them new from Honda but they are almost $300. If the VINS on the engine and trans match the chassis and there isn't any major rust then you might have a pretty good deal on your hands.

Johnne625

If you don't ****** that SI up i certainly will, no matter how far away i am. In regards to the front lip not being OEM, it's possible that the OEM one could have been cracked, chipped, or broken and was in the process of needing replacement but had not been paint matched yet. As for that black thing of a car, i would say it was midway through being made an SI clone while still maintaining the dx/ex hardware under the hood. The looks of a car can say a whole lot, judging by that rust bucket of a truck sitting next to the 97 i would say that the civic isn't too far behind it in the rust dept. Assuming the SI is near flawless (it's an old car and thus very hard to find perfect ones) that is obviously the better choice in this instance. Will be following to see what decision is made

deschlong

iTrader: (8)

^ Also, a minor point, but the "Si" badge at the rear was replaced with "SiR". Unless it is a Canadian market version of the car (which was badged as an "SiR"), this is a minor mod but its mere existence suggests the owner might have been interested in performing other mods also.

ElectronBlue00

Aside from what everyone has suggested.... it might be worth it to do a compression test on the car of your choice. (If the seller permits) and to watch for any smoke out the exhaust tip.....

Edit: Avoid the EX that you posted on here. As everyone has suggested. It appears theres still some rust on the passenger rear wheel well, and it looks like the lip on the rear bumper is hanging off. Just more notes to point to the fact that it may be neglected.

Ryan...

Great insight from everyone here, I appreciate it!

I'll ask the owner of the blue civic for some under hood shots.

Ryan...

UPDATE: Surprise surprise, the SI seller backed out, as have about 8 other people that had "cash in hand"



If you had to place a value on the first black car, what would you price it at?

If I dont get any other real offers in the next couple days I am considering going to look at it, but wouldn't make any offers or talk deals unless a PPI was done to confirm that for the time being the motor and other components are in good health and road worthy.

I am taking into consideration that the car would need a timing belt done if the owner cannot give me any receipts. The paint doesn't really bother me as I would like to learn to paint, and I'm most certainly not looking for a show car.

spontaneous123

I wouldn't pay more than 2000 for it. Looks like a half-assed project, and like another member mentioned earlier, probably has something wrong that the current owner doesn't want to/can't fix and he's selling it. If you can financially hold out, look around for another month. Buying used Civics is a waiting game. Some may be better than others, while being a little more expensive such as the Si, and you'll thank yourself for sticking it out for a little more in the long run.

Ryan...

Ok that's a very good point, I would most definitely prefer selling outright to pick my car.

Until a PPI is done I guess speculation is pointless as I really have no idea how solid the car actually is.


This is the other car I'm interested in, although the price may be a bit high:

http://madison.craigslist.org/cto/4446669441.html

Seems like it would be a solid little car once the paint is fixed and rust issue(s) are addressed.

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

Stop messing around with these cheap *** cars and get a real one. If this is the level of car you're looking at you might want to think twice because chances are you'll wind up picking up a POS that you will never be able to fix up in lieu of chasing down problems and breakdowns. Especially if your finances are about to become as tight as you say. A project car is really not what you want to be getting into.

deschlong

iTrader: (8)

Grumble speaks the truth.

Listen.

Ryan...

I'm pretty much just looking for a solid runner to last me 12-16 months. If it looks good, great, but I can live without a "cool" car for a while. I've already had plenty of fun with //M cars, turbos, and fast bikes. Once I get my a job in my chosen field I'll be able and willing to find a nicely sorted car to build up to my liking

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

Then pick up the first POS that runs. Do a compression test on it to make sure the engine is good to go. All the rest of it matters absolutely not one iota if the car is just going to be a temporary daily beater.

Ryan...

Well that's what I'm getting at, the SI would have been a nice car that I would have really worked at to make it nice. If another opportunity like that presents itself I would pounce.

However, a nice running car is primarily what I should be looking for right now. If that means a cheap, baby puke green hatchback in good mechanical condition, so be it.

I dont want it to sound like I'm disregarding your advice because I truly do appreciate it, but my situation is perhaps a bit different than your typical potential buyer that posts in these forums.

I have no expectation of creating an Import Tuner quality car.

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

If you don't plan on keeping nor fixing it up then I don't understand why it's appearance even matters. Pick up one that runs solid. End of story. If it's just to get you to and from point A and B then pick up one with a strong drivetrain. And your story sounds EXACTLY like the typical buyer.

Right now this thread is a "Is it worth it?" thread and should have been posted in the sticky up top.

jdmjunkieXL

Why trade a wrx for a civic... Why wtf

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

I wouldn't. I'd get a second job to pay it off.

Ryan...

My apologies, you can close this one down.

If the car runs good and will last me a long time, I'm not against keeping it, lowering it a little bit, getting some nicer looking wheels, and keeping it for as long as it will last me.


It's more or less a dump my payments and just buy something practical that wont draw LEO attention to myself kind of trade.


Refer to response above; I suppose it's less about paying it off and more about getting fair value for my car while finding a reliable runner of the Honda variation.