jodyboy

I searched, but as usual, I found similar, but not many helpful posts.

1996 Civic D16 1.6SOHC

My distributor was giving out on me so I replaced it. Followed up with adjusting timing. Did the whole timing light shebang, set the crank to 16degrees, and it ran even better than before.

Now the problem is when I get to high RPMs, about 5-6k, I'll suddenly feel something lugging, almost like hydroplaning, or tires burning out. If I keep foot on gas, nothing happens and it drops to low RPM and sputters.

When I let off and the RPMs get low, it will shoot up to a high idle (1.5-2.5k) and stall unless I really work the clutch and gas in a certain way, kind of like starting from a dead stop in 2nd gear.

After this, if I turn the car off, then back on again, it's back to normal.

Now my first instinct was the timing is a little bit off. I set the crank pulley to exactly TDC, lining up the single mark on the lower timing cover. Next I moved on to check the camshaft timing. I know there is a discrepancy with this. Some say set the timing marks (there is one on the right side of the cam gear and left side) level with the top of the head, and some say set them offset a little bit with the offset marks on the timing cover. On the left side, the mark is about an eight of a inch below and on the right side it's about an eight of an inch above. I measured the distance between one tooth, and it's a quarter inch (one eighth plus one eight). If you know anything about civic timing you should know what I mean, sorry I couldn't get any pics.

Right now my marks are lined up with the top of the head, but I'm thinking my timing could be a tooth off. Should I advance it one tooth? Does this problem sound like a "one-tooth off problem?"

Thanks in advance guys, I know it's a long read.

Only code is for the bad downstream o2 sensor, but it's been bad for over a year and I've never had this problem so I don't think it could be that. Also, from what I've heard, this is only used for emissions data or something that I don't have to worry about

jodyboy

I guess the main thing that I'm trying to figure out is... is this something that one tooth retarded would cause? Like I said, it runs well, but as soon as I push it up to about 5500 rpm and then bogs down/stalls.


Is the ECU trying to adjust the timing? This started happening as soon as I changed the dizzy and adjusted timing with the light. It never happened before.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Where did you get the distrubutor? What brand? Cheap units are hit and miss.

Does this only happen at high throttle? Try as little throttle as possible. Put it in 1st and creep up to the higher RPMs and see if there's still an issue. I worked on a car with a clogged cat that would sputter and rev limit at like 6k if you jammed on it...but would rev to the limit if you eased on it.

VTEC solenoid screen may be dirty.

Oil in spark plug holes or bad plugs.

jodyboy

Thanks for the reply.

It is boosted (8-9 lbs...high school days) so I am stepping on it a little bit, but I'm not hardcore racing it... just having a little fun.

The dizzy is duralast, which I have heard are okay...brand new from autozone, not reman.

No oil in spark plugs. However, two of them are new(er) than the other ones. In hindsight, this probably isn't ideal. Would that be something that could cause my problem?

I've only experienced this in second gear, only because thats the only gear that I really get to almost redline.

I'm going to put her back together and try it in third and maybe fourth with new plugs and get post the results. Hopefully some other guys have helpful input as well.

carlos8

Did you feel like it is breaking at 6k @9psi after put your distributor at 16*?

If this is what you are experienced try to gap your plugs a little more close, give you set the time correctly maybe you are blowing the spark.

This is not related with the high idle and the stall, but maybe help in boost.

jodyboy

No the acceleration and speed feel completely normal to me. I don't think I have a loss of performance. Only up until the bogging happens and then the idle/stall.

Update: replaced all spark plugs, it's still messing up.

It boggs down in third gear too, didn't try it in fourth and it didn't do it in first.

tony_2018

What was your ignition timing before?

kyden

Is it tuned?

jodyboy

Ignition timing felt okay before. I knew the dizzy was going bad because I would intermittently have problems with it. When I replaced it, and before I adjusted it, it was probably 3-5 degrees off. I drove around a couple of days between when I changed the dizzy and adjusted timing, but I didn't push it past 3krpm.

and yes, it is tuned. I did not have this problem before I swapped dizzy+adjusted timing. It's been boosted for a few years now. I know next to nothing about tuning/ECUs though.

tony_2018

Than I suggest you take back to the tuner and explain to them that you swapped the dizzy and need help getting it back to what is was previously. No point dicking with it

jodyboy

It still feels the same as it has before except for the bogging/stalling issue. If the tune got "wiped" or whatever, I feel that the performance would be drastically reduced and very obvious.

I checked the vacuum lines and they all seem to be ok.

Could it be the MAP sensor? Do these things randomly go bad?

jodyboy

Update: played with it a little bit more, figured out that it only boggs/stalls while warm. After I turn the car off then back on again, it's back to normal. This makes me believe it something electrical related, AKA not vacuum issue. I can't even accelerate past 4k rpm and its making me angry.

Any ideas?

crazyhouse2011

Sounds like an ECU issue if it doesn't do it right after you turn it back on.

jodyboy

How can the ECU screw up if I didn't do anything with it?

crazyhouse2011

idk. but when i get a CEL for my speedo sensor, the idle raises up, the car runs less than ideal, but if i turn it off, then turn it back on, the car runs normal, until the ECU figures out that the speedo sensor is still jacked up.

jodyboy

So it's not your ECU... its your sensor...

jodyboy

Update: Just threw a CEL code. Why it took so long I have no idea, but it's p0108

Absolute Manifold pressure
Troubleshooting:
1. Vacuum hose leaks - I visually inspected them all, seem good. I have heard of spraying carb cleaner around suspected area and looking for an idle speed change. Has anyone tried this?

2. Mechanical Timing off - Checked and every mark is dead center. (with plastic timing cover)

3. Throttle Body intake tube loose or off - I'm sure its fine

4. MAP or MAF sensor defective. This is what I'm leaning towards. Has anyone had luck with pulling these parts from a junkyard? Good ways to test this? I'm assuming it's as simple as checking for correct voltage.

Any other common issues/problems related with this condition would be appreciated.

I'll get to work and update you guys (if anyone cares haha)

crazyhouse2011

No.

jodyboy

Update: Just came back from a two month long deployment... so

Ended up replacing MAP sensor, CEL code went away but still have the problem. :/

Realized that if I slowly raise the RPMs up, the problem doesn't come

Also, what's interesting is that I had my turbo temporarily disconnected (compressor piping disconnected from intercooler) and the problem didn't come up at all. I took RPMs to just short of red in almost every gear multiple times and everything was good to go.

Any ideas?

95accordCE6

Do you have an afr gauge? If anything you should pull timing rather than advancing it being that is turbo'd, and since you had it tuned that's probably why the timing was off 3-5 degrees before you readjusted it

jodyboy

Yes I do have an afr gauge. Can you explain to me why I should pull the timing/why you suspect that?
I assumed it was slightly off because I had just replaced the distributor.

95accordCE6

Once you hit vetch the timing becomes over advanced under full boost, not only can it be dangerous for the engine but you start losing power. Ideally I'd set timing retarded one degree per psi of boost then advance it until you find the sweet spot

95accordCE6

I should also mention since you're map referenced the ecu advances timing base do n all the air it's seeing (full boost) that's why it doesn't happen with the turbo disconnected

95accordCE6

Vtec...damn auto-incorrect

nub

So this set up is supposed to be tuned...but you threw a P0108 code ,which means OBD2 ecu, which can't be tuned.

How is this tuned?

Base ignition timing for all OBD2 D's is 12* btdc.