slowerthanu

So non Subaru owners Cant know anything about the WRX, but you can know or atleast stereotype what type of person drives the above mentioned cars? Sounds a bit hypocritical to me. I have Driven countless WRX's and 2.5 RS's, some at SCCA events (No Rallicross as of yet). They are excellent cars in general, but nothing to scream about, they give me a feeling of driving a Sport ute, very high and straight up driving position, Soft rolly polly suspension and NO top-end. On the other hand, the fit and finish is great, the color choices are excellent, the low-end Torque is magnificant and the fact that you can Take your whole family out in the middle of a snowstorm without worry is a great thing too.

The WRX is a good car at best, an excellent platform to build a fast daily driver, but while it ma be dependable stock (this is yet to be proven) start drag racing and ralliXing and soon enough things will start to break, Shocks will get blown, trannys will destroy themselves (Seen it happen many a time) and parts will fail. Better yet, start upping the boost and the engine wear will increase drastically, along with the turbo.

the WRX is great, but so are Honda's and I for one LOVE the people here on H-T and love the people I race and work on my Car with.

P.S. In three times before the lock!

B18C5-EH2

All you guys see are words on a screen. You guys have no idea if I'm worked up or not. I think you guys read into my rants a tad too much.

I'm just bored at work and I want to see if the guy that's talking all that crap actually has any experience or logic to back it up, which it seems he does not.


[Modified by B18C5-EH2, 10:51 AM 8/9/2002]

B18C5-EH2

Where's anthologyEK at?

jonas

isnt this Will? yellow CTR replica?

YOU built a few hondas? you told me you were 17, i dont know how many honda's you can build/drive in one year. last time i asked you about your motor you said, "i dont know, my friend made it like stock". last time i asked you about your 5 lug conversion.. same answer.

what did you build?


[Modified by jonas, 6:26 PM 8/9/2002]

B18C5-EH2

Jesus anthologyEK, I think you've been owned twice now.

Nice call Jonas - tell us more!

Round 3!

DING! DING!

jonas

17 with having a CTR paint job, CTR/ITR mirrors, JDM CTR recaro seats, 5 lug conversion, ITR motor (can't confirm, never seen), etc etc etc.

now in my state, people under 18 are only allowed to work a certain amount of hours. so in 1-2 years you worked to "build" all of that stuff? that's about 25k+ worth of mods, you even said yourself you spent more/less the price of a WRX for your car to be where it is right now. not accusing you of anything, i'm just wondering.

shawnhayes

No love missing here either. WRX factory is cool, and modded it will even be better. But.....the level at which it is starting is so high and so expensive. Spend $25,000 on building a hatch, and you got a supercar. I don't mean you have a super...car either - I mean a supercar that competes with the likes of porsche, lotus, and ferrari (in certain performance areas of course). Given, if a WRX started base price of $9000 or less, this would also be the case with the WRX, but it doesn't.

Especially with someone who doesn't understand the point in the first place.

Shawn


[/QUOTE]

Blue-Civic-Hybrid

iTrader: (1)

So much hate...it's a free world...drive what you like and prove your skill at an A/X or dragstrip.... life is too short to be arguing over such petty things...

POLLO

*read on*

I totally agree that you do not have to own a certain type of vehicle and still know about them. But you can separate those that are knowledgeable about a car and others that just spew pure bullsh*t about some article they read on another web board or just read a magazine instead of going to the real world source, such as Auto X and other events to find out out to the real world drivers actually handle them and react on those vehicles and getting the feedback on how they perform which diffent drivers, instead on relying on paper and ink. You said it yourself, you have driven a countless of times different cars, so you should know my comment was not directed at you.

Hypocritical ?

I am not the one who is getting out of Honda's because they are getting sick of the honda crowd. Do you see my point. If by any change that I am switching to modify another type of car its simply because you want to learn about how the other car is engineered and how different it is from what I already know based on the Honda that i used to have, that's how you learn.. not just because you are sick of being "Stereotyped" or you just don't like the crowd. Lame excuse.

Please do not let the my post count fool you. I have been around long enough that I remember the beggining of what people like to call the "Import Scene". So when I mentioned those stereotypes, is because I am good friends with people who are into those different groups which in by no means I was criticizing but was rather using them as an example for those that are leaving honda/mitsubishi/audi/vw/subaru to jump in another car manufacturer for silly reasons such as the people involved.


Hope this clears your questions and if I still sound hypocritical. What can I say ? Im an old bastard.

blacksoul

The way i look at it is, payments vs. no payments. Ive had a car i had to make payments on, then it broke down, tires wore out, etc, so i had to spend more money on the car.
Now i own i honda with no payments and im much happier.
J/W, but didnt civic si's come brand new for 16,500? (maybe depending on year) And they want 18k for that black used s/c civic si?


[Modified by blacksoul, 6:50 AM 8/10/2002]

vtecvoodoo

Ryan-who just cracked open a beer and kicked his shoes off. This is gonna be fun

Quik89Si

WHEEEE!!!

<----------along for the ride. I love these threads! So much good reading for late at night.

Alex

diabolik_Projekts_93

i will have to agree with b18c5eh2 on this one

but also abstraktEK a FF will never out handle a AWD car but the advantage we do have is that we can drop weight and pull harder out of corners then they can and if abstrakEK trys and disagree with me on this i have one thing to say Roger FOO took a FF car and beat some bad *** Audi's and **** all racing is about power to weight ratio i may not be able to out handle some cars but the majority of them i can pull like a mother on the way out

this is just like dising some one who owns a NSX its about 80,000 brand new and you could have the ultimte civic hybrid for that much but it will never be A NSX just like a civic hybrid will never be a WRX toatly different cars can't really be compared but if people must read above




[Modified by diabolik_Projekts_93, 10:09 AM 8/10/2002]

shawnhayes

Now that's about the most retarded thing I think I've heard in a while.

Bullcrap. The secret is relative handling. A FF car with the proper modifications and a good starting chassis has an excellent chance of outhandling many stock AWD cars. Now given, a well massaged and worked out AWD car will do much, much better, but it will also cost a HUGE amount of money (look at WRC cars) because of three properly tuned differentials, and takes a lot more work to sort out in the long run. But, all you can manage is "a FF car will never out handle a AWD car". I hand stock Subaru Impreza's their lunch on turn in and track out.

FF cars are easier to tune for handling.

Understood and true, but that's the point. FF cars can be superiorly driven and tuned for the right situation and can put the smackdown on AWD cars if properly worked on. But that's not what you BELIEVE is it? (see first quote above).

Shawn

EG6-SiR

Any fool can launch a 4wd down the 1/4...
If you're planning on running 1/4's a lot, hope you know a good gearbox specialist... then again, u guys don't get evo's over there... sigh...

B18C5-EH2

For the guy that said "so much hate..." and whatnot, it's not hate at all.

It's all about stopping the MISINFORMATION that runs so rampant around not only here, but everywhere in the world.

I'm just trying to stop some misinfo in a forum in which I feel I have enough experience to offer up intelligent arguments based on personal and close friends' experiences.

I think Shawn Hayes adressed the FF vs. AWD handling thing very well.

Here's a question:

Where have the AWD Mistubishi Eclipses/Talons/Lasers been all this time?

If it's just about AWD outhandling FF cars, why haven't these cars mentioned above been handing us FF guys our asses at the local auto-X events?

And drag racing?

I can't remember how many times I've been reading results of drag races and seen "DNF - broken tranny" on so many AWD cars like the Diamond Star AWD cars.

Snap right back at me for a broken tranny if you must, but there's huge difference in my situation and someone who breaks their AWD tranny.

The part I broke in my tranny was an aftermarket 4.929 final drive by ATS. True I broke the stock piece long ago, but it had 50,000 hard miles on it and I did not have the wheelhop issure adressed yet I dragged anyways on street tires.

My tranny won't be nearly as costly to repair as an AWD tranny that explodes, and since I have no car payments the repair is more affordable since I don't have $400+ going towards a car note monthly.

What is the warranty on a Subaru? You'd better drive the **** out of and and break all you can while under warranty, because that's going to suck if you break the expensive **** on it after the warranty runs out.

I just can't imagine having to scrounge up well over $400 a month for the payment, God knows how much for the insurance on a $25,000+ brand new sports car with AWD and turbo, and STILL try and afford mods on it just to get into the 13's.

And you'd still need some very well thought out and developed suspension parts in order to compete with good FF cars in the handling department.

I'm still waiting on the 17 year old's reply to all of this. So you might have a $25,000 EK or whatever, but it sounds like it's mostly all cosmetic stuff so why wouldn't you think that a hatch handles worse than a stock WRX? Why wouldn't you think that a stock WRX would be faster than my car when all you know is a 15-second hatch like yours? When I was 17 I was into this car stuff too, but I took a totally different approach to it - I didn't open my mouth and speak when I had no clue what I was talking about.

My advise to anthologyEK would be to stop reading Super Street like a bible and DRIVE the cars we are discussing, or if you can't get your hands on a WRX then at least ride with someone or talk to someone at an auto-X that seems to do well in his or her WRX. Re-examine WHY you feel like your hatch is inadequeate and adress why with carefully thought out mods rather than "JDM Wong from Super Street says this mod is "JDM Approved y0!"

What I'd really like to hear from is an actual WRX owner that has auto-X'd their car and what it takes to get the car to handle really good.

I think a lot of the WRXs that we will see at auto-X probably remain stock in terms or suspension because they don't want to void that warranty.

That's understandable for the reasons mentioned above.



[Modified by B18C5-EH2, 9:53 AM 8/10/2002]

POLLO

Good morning Fellas !

B18C5-EH2

Nice one!

oldB18EF

B18 and Jonas, you guys are so RIGHT.

I wouldnt post any thing either if I would of gotten owned that bad! to you

B18C5-EH2

Let's make this fair:

I'm going to try and IM a few WRX owners on the MB here to see what they have to say about all of this.

I know this started out as a "for sale" thread, but it's already in the classifieds and this thread has turned into a nice debate.

It's just so one-sided because the sole arguer for the WRX camp doesn't even own one and has no clue about what's being argued.



Insert WRX owners soon!

POLLO

I you guys !

Kei-EF8

iTrader: (2)

love ur couple

shawnhayes

Tom, I think WE have touted the known good portions of the WRX - excellent power, AWD, superb rallycar capability, good weight balance.

I've driven the WRX - I LIKE the WRX, but I won't pay $25,000 for a car that cannot outperform mine in the form it is now.

Shawn

threeclaws

B18C5-

I think your right on one thing only, your hatch may be a better on track vehicle than any wrx on the planet $ to $, but why don't you compare something at least in the 2k era. How about a stock 2002 Si to a 2002 Wrx, stock for stock even you can't say the car's are even comparable, and the price difference is much slimmer than your hatch and a new wrx.

I mean I can go by a 92' cx and dump 10k into suspension and 10k into the engine and I'm sure I will beat a lot of cars out there. On the other hand a new SI and a WRX what would you put your money into?

I just see it as being really pointless to argue that a 10yr old car is better than a 2k2 car when in reality it isn't. If you put the money aside of the initial investment into the car (ie 22k for the wrx and 4k for a 92 civ) then which car do you think mod for mod would turn out better overall?

And for whoever said the ITR is a better car than a wrx mod for mod? What are you smoking, stock for stock i personally think an ITR is a better choice for auto-x but once mods come into the picture the wrx will overtake it. The ITR is a "race" car from the damn factory, it's an all out track beast and can handle extremely well, but to upgrade the susp. on the itr will cost the same as it would to upgrade the wrx and you will end up in the same spot, but the wrx will have AWD which will make a difference and it has more power.

Mark


[Modified by threeclaws, 5:23 AM 8/11/2002]

B18C5-EH2

three calws:

I apprectiate your attempt to add some more good points, but please do us a favor and READ the whole thread next time. Selective reading doesn't do much good because you might miss some key points.

The initial statement that started this whole debate was this:

"so now i have a stock 4 door that will smoke the majority of cars on this board, and i dont have one dollar out of my pocket invested in this car besides the monthly payment"

So this is what he means:

My STOCK WRX will smoke (meaning beat by a large margin, not just edge out ) most of the cars on this board.

I know the guy who said that so I thought I'd snap back at him in good fun by telling him that my car is a good deal quicker than every stock WRX I've ever encountered, and that my car is far from the quickest car on these boards.

Then some dipshit enters and starts making retarded claims like stock WRXs are faster than my 13.3 second hatch and that stock WRXs will outhandle my car even though I've never seen one turn the times I have at auto-X.

THAT is why a 10 year old car that's modded is being compared to a stock 2002 model car.