B18EG6

<FONT COLOR="blue"><FONT SIZE="5">Problem SOLVED </FONT>

I switched the TDC and CYP sensor signals within my wiring Even though they were switched I was still getting spark on one cylinder and my injectors to fire on 3 and 4. I switched the signals and it fired right up </FONT>

Hello-

EDIT- The car has spark now, but will not turn over. I now have a NEW starter, NEW distributor, and am troubleshooting with OEM injectors. The ECM worked on a friends car, and I am using the same basemap for my car that I did his. I tried moving grounds around, no luck. Any help would be immensely appreciated!!!

<u>Facts:</u>
OBD1 GSR with an OBD1 distributor, in a 95 hatch.
Hondata s300, basemap confirmed to be on the ECU. ECU works on friends car just finnnne so I know its not the ECU.
Cams and crank are at TDC together.
OEM ignition, new cap and rotor. 750CC injectors (kind without resistors needed)
Battery in trunk with 0ga running to remote terminal on firewall, then 4ga to fusebox and 4ga to alternator/starter.
Tranny and cylinder head grounded to chassis using 4ga wire soldered to copper lugs without using flux.

Seen here:



<u>Observations / Tests:</u>
ALL fuses have continuity.
Cams do indeed turn while cranking.
Fuel pump primes, and also is on while cranking. Fuel pressure observed with in cabin gauge and on regulator gauge.
Slight humming coming from engine bay only after cranking for ~10s.
12v is seen at blk/yel distributor wire, and at given locations within distributor.
Coil resistance is nominal, and spark plug wire resistance varies from 6.5kohms - 12kohms.
NGK BKR7E plugs gapped to .32.
Continuity between ECM and alternator
Continuity between ELD and ECM

Changed - now have spark
NO spark when holding plug near valve cover, more tests to come using spark plig tester.
No spike to 12V on distributor cap while cranking, more tests involving removing the cap and observing rotor.

The blue wire on the second dizzy plug (tach signal) does not connect to anything... I found this short, but do not know where to connect this to. I am hoping this is the problem

<u>Questions</u>
<FONT COLOR="green">The thermostat has all the sensor grounds and shield drains on it. Should I connect this straight to ground?

Does the blue wire leaving the distributor go anywhere but the gauge cluster? How does the ECU see RPM?</FONT>

Modified by B18EG6 at 11:57 AM 7/1/2007


Modified by B18EG6 at 2:37 PM 7/9/2007


Modified by B18EG6 at 2:38 PM 7/9/2007

HCivicSi23

Check the distributor.

B18EG6

please be more specific. I followed the troubleshooting for the distributor per the hemls instructions.

scratch that... I have a solid cel


Rotor and cap are new


Modified by B18EG6 at 10:11 PM 6/26/2007

HCivicSi23

Um... lets see here. When it cranks over it should turn and create a spark which then transfers at diffrent intervals to the ignition wires. You can take just the plastic housing off and eave the distirbutor in place, but dissconnect all the ignition wires. Then crank the engine over and see if it rotates and sparks.

HCivicSi23

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18EG6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">please be more specific. I followed the troubleshooting for the distributor per the hemls instructions.

NO solid cell

Rotor and cap are new </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well... if there new, did you get the gap timing correct on it when you re installed it? It's possible that you have lost conductivity in the spark plug wire itself.

B18EG6

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18EG6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I cannot get spark at the plugs. I yanked one of the plugs and held it real close to the VC and saw no sparks. I also put a multimeter into the dizzy cap, and saw no spike to 12V while cranking.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Were you implying you want me to remove the cover and look at the actual rotor spin?

I actually have not checked the spark plug gap brb I will check the wires too while I am down there

HCivicSi23

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18EG6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Were you implying you want me to remove the cover and look at the actual rotor spin?

I actually have not checked the spark plug gap brb I will check the wires too while I am down there</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yea. See if the rotor itself is spinning... it's possible that its not. If the engine cranks over but theres no spark out of the ignition wires... I would say its either the distributor or the ignition wires itself.

B18EG6

plugs gapped at ~.34 and the wires have resistance ranging from 6.5k-12k

trrbl1bmx

One of the worst things your can do a plug is hold it near an engine/chassis ground and try to get it to spark. You can induce a flyback voltage and fry your ECM/ECU. If you are sure you ECU is providing a signal for your igntion coil, then actually try a known goog coil. More time than not a helms can steer you wrong. You say you aren't getting any SOLID CELs, What kind are you getting? Hope I could help you a little bit. I am not sure with out looking at a pin out or wiring diagram what that blue tach signal goes to, but in theory if that is not plugged up, your ECU doesn't know when to signal the coil. Fix your blue tach signal problem and report back! Good Luck!!

Here is a spark tester

B18EG6

I just rechecked and found some possible bad news?

I jumped the service connector, and turned the key to IGN. The fuel pump primed, but the CEL stays solid. Without jumping the connector, the CEL stays on while priming and then turns off.

This is a socketed p72 for hondata s300. Could this be a faulty basemap, hondata, or socketing?

What could cause a solid CEL, other then a crapped ECU? Any wiring problems I can trace?

Thanks for the link for the spark plug tester, I will see if autozone has one similar

seb

trrbl1bmx

What motor are you running? GSR?

B18EG6

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by p00n &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What motor are you running? GSR?</TD></TR></TABLE>

OBD1 GSR

HCivicSi23

The blue tach wire goes straight into the distributor... which brings me back to the point, I think you have a bad rotor or distributor itself. I looked it up on a wire diagram. I have a book of every wire diagram for ever Honda.

B18EG6

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HCivicSi23 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The blue tach wire goes straight into the distributor... which brings me back to the point, I think you have a bad rotor or distributor itself. I looked it up on a wire diagram. I have a book of every wire diagram for ever Honda. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I was asking on the other end of the blue wire.. where does it go? Only to the gauge cluster? or to the ECU?

The rotor and cap are brand new, and the distributor checks out according to the helms.. any other tests you recommend me doing?

BTW a buddy with an obd1 uberdata ECU has a solid CEL when he jumps his OBD1 ECU


Also to note, the spark plugs did NOT smell like fuel when I removed them.

HCivicSi23

Alright... flipping through more pages. The blue wire then runs to the tachometer and continues its journy... To the Vss ( obviously ) and apparently the solid blue wire ends at the tachometer.

B18EG6

I don't want to come off as rude, but the blue tach wire does not go to the VSS

So its showing the blue goes nowhere but the tach? How does the ECM get engine RPM then?

Chase

okay, im sure you've checked fuses, ALL grounds (thermostat, VC, and trans)

open up the ecu and look at all the little solders, make sure u dont see anything wrong in there. Open up the dizzy and make sure all the solders inside are still good.

Im kinda iffy on it being the tach wire, but reconnect it and see. Who knows?!

hmm....

B18EG6

Thanks for the reply Chase

ALL fuses good, or at least good enough to trick my continuity tester. VC, trans are grounded to the framerail using 4ga wire. All of the sensor grounds and shielding are grounded to the thermostat housing (<FONT COLOR="blue">do I need to flat out ground the t-housing to the chassis? I was under the impression to only ground one side</FONT>)

I'll crack the ECU up but last I had it open all looked well. I opened up the dizzy, and can give pictures of anything inside of there. The dizzy also checked out by all of Mr. Helm's tests.

I can't seem to find the elusive blue tach wire going to anywhere but the cluster (in all of my wiring diagrams). I'll track down the cluster RPM lead and reattach it to there to see if it helps.

Any ideas on this solid CEL? My buddy has a solid cel when he jumps, and his car runs fine.

I should really clean my replies up in this thread

Seb

edit - BTW the cylinders do not have fuel in them, indicating the injectors are not firing

Lou_EM1

Blue wire has me stumped.
I however had the same problem before without a spark and a solid CEL without it being a crap ECU... it was the igniter for me.
You said it was within spec.. well I don't know exactly what that entails since the question still remains.. do the internal components of the dizzy work? I am not asking if it's within spec, I'm asking if you know for sure it's not the rotor, the cap or igniter.
What I had to do was replace each one by one...

Chase

im going to a party to get drunk and think about this...i shall return!

B18EG6

Last time the dizzy worked was three years ago

The 'within spec' aspects of things meant I had 12v where I was supposed to, and the coil had an impedance within the range deemed allowable for operation.

I cannot say whether or not the individual components come together to make a functioning distributor...All I know if the rotor and cap are new. Its been a little while since this thing has seen a road

Where can I source a new distributor that wont cost me an arm and a leg?


Drink it up man I gotta go to work tomorrow so im goin to bed

ME=ADRIAN

iTrader: (1)

egay.

HCivicSi23

Let me know what code your getting. Pull it off with a odb diagnostic tool.

hatchi

did you try another ecu yet??

Lou_EM1

Dizzys are a lot, and it's almost more (if not, more) if you were to buy individual parts (which is what I did to troubleshoot the problem).

This could just be me, but no spark makes me go right into the dizzy. The rotor turns on when cranked - there's almost no chance of it be faulty here. The cap... well, as long as it's screwed on, we can also rule that out as the culprit, plus it's new. The other factors I am still not 100% convinced is not the problem.

I just noticed you said the car hasn't cranked in 3 years, and did a wire tuck and battery relocation... hmmm wow well, having no spark does deal with the main negine harness and the battery; I don't know what to say about that... that's a lot of everything in terms of possible issues.

What I would do FIRST is borrow the igniter, coil pack, and ecu from a friend and swap it (if not... yes, buy em all) since this is the easiest/quickest way to troublshooting.
If it's not that, the problem has to be something to do with electrical wires, either engine harness or that unknown blue wire.