Need some knowledgable/experienced help, timing troubles.
08-06-2007, 06:13 AM
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Need some knowledgable/experienced help, timing troubles.
Alright, apparently there is a fairly common fix for my situation but I've yet to find it. Heres a rundown
-Car is a 1999 Civic EX with OBD2b engine harness.
-It has a d16z6
-p28 and converted to OBD1. It has a chip for tuning chrome, but I completely disabled that by cutting the jumper.
-Everything on the motor is OBD1 except for the Intake and Exhaust manifolds, PS pump, and Alternator.
-There are no aftermarket parts on the motor (ie stock internals, all pulleys, etc etc etc..)
I've tried like crazy to set the timing on this bastard, but haven't had any luck. The situation I am in is that the Dizzy has to stay a bit more retarded than it should be to get the motor to run smooth through the rpms.
It doesn't hesitate during acceleration much, only at low low rpms and usually only during warm up. It does hesitate at Idle though, especially during warmup. And overall, it's just not as smooth as a honda motor should be.
The mechanical timing seems to be set correctly. At TDC the notch on the crank gear is aligned with the arrow on the oil pump. The Cam Gear "7 oclock" mark is aligned witht he plastic arrow inside the timing cover, however the lines that are supposed to be level with the head, are not level.
Am I missing something?! Is there some random sensor or some **** that needs to be swapped to OBD1 to run right?
I'm just at a loss. Theres a piece missing from my puzzle, and I can't find it for the life of me
-Car is a 1999 Civic EX with OBD2b engine harness.
-It has a d16z6
-p28 and converted to OBD1. It has a chip for tuning chrome, but I completely disabled that by cutting the jumper.
-Everything on the motor is OBD1 except for the Intake and Exhaust manifolds, PS pump, and Alternator.
-There are no aftermarket parts on the motor (ie stock internals, all pulleys, etc etc etc..)
I've tried like crazy to set the timing on this bastard, but haven't had any luck. The situation I am in is that the Dizzy has to stay a bit more retarded than it should be to get the motor to run smooth through the rpms.
It doesn't hesitate during acceleration much, only at low low rpms and usually only during warm up. It does hesitate at Idle though, especially during warmup. And overall, it's just not as smooth as a honda motor should be.
The mechanical timing seems to be set correctly. At TDC the notch on the crank gear is aligned with the arrow on the oil pump. The Cam Gear "7 oclock" mark is aligned witht he plastic arrow inside the timing cover, however the lines that are supposed to be level with the head, are not level.
Am I missing something?! Is there some random sensor or some **** that needs to be swapped to OBD1 to run right?
I'm just at a loss. Theres a piece missing from my puzzle, and I can't find it for the life of me
08-06-2007, 09:00 AM
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Re: Need some knowledgable/experienced help, timing troubles. (Forty04)
by the way, Dizzy is OEM and new. Same goes for plugs and wires.
I've got sufficient fuel pressure
Any ideas??
I've got sufficient fuel pressure
Any ideas??
08-06-2007, 09:14 AM
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Re: Need some knowledgable/experienced help, timing troubles. (Forty04)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Forty04 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">however the lines that are supposed to be level with the head, are not level.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
sounds like you just said what the problem is....
</TD></TR></TABLE>
sounds like you just said what the problem is....
08-06-2007, 09:42 AM
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Re: Need some knowledgable/experienced help, timing troubles. (94hatchling)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94hatchling »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
sounds like you just said what the problem is....</TD></TR></TABLE>
The problem is that I've read a ton of contradicting threads both here and across the net. Basically the arguement is which lines need to match up for the z6 to be timed correctly
A - the 7-oclock notch aligned with the pointer in the timing cover
or
B - The horizontal lines being flush with the head
From what I've seen, you can't have both. So which marks am I supposed to be aligning?
sounds like you just said what the problem is....</TD></TR></TABLE>
The problem is that I've read a ton of contradicting threads both here and across the net. Basically the arguement is which lines need to match up for the z6 to be timed correctly
A - the 7-oclock notch aligned with the pointer in the timing cover
or
B - The horizontal lines being flush with the head
From what I've seen, you can't have both. So which marks am I supposed to be aligning?
08-07-2007, 02:09 AM
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Re: Need some knowledgable/experienced help, timing troubles. (Forty04)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Forty04 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The problem is that I've read a ton of contradicting threads both here and across the net. Basically the arguement is which lines need to match up for the z6 to be timed correctly
A - the 7-oclock notch aligned with the pointer in the timing cover
or
B - The horizontal lines being flush with the head
From what I've seen, you can't have both. So which marks am I supposed to be aligning?</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's the horizontal lines being parallel to the crack of the head/block.
I never used/seen the "arrow" - though I've heard of it
.
The problem is that I've read a ton of contradicting threads both here and across the net. Basically the arguement is which lines need to match up for the z6 to be timed correctly
A - the 7-oclock notch aligned with the pointer in the timing cover
or
B - The horizontal lines being flush with the head
From what I've seen, you can't have both. So which marks am I supposed to be aligning?</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's the horizontal lines being parallel to the crack of the head/block.
I never used/seen the "arrow" - though I've heard of it
.
08-07-2007, 03:11 AM
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Re: Need some knowledgable/experienced help, timing troubles. (Syndacate)
Alright, then my cam timing is definitely a tad off....Looks like I'm back to ripping the **** apart again.
I also tossed a VSS code on the way to work this morning. Is this just a "replace it to fix it" sorta thing? (I haven't searched yet, but will right now..)
I also tossed a VSS code on the way to work this morning. Is this just a "replace it to fix it" sorta thing? (I haven't searched yet, but will right now..)
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08-07-2007, 03:17 AM
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Re: Need some knowledgable/experienced help, timing troubles. (Forty04)
the arrows need to pont to the left and sit in a straight line with the deck/head just like you said.
yea the vss either take the top part off and replace it or replace the whole thine
obviously you should check to see if there is any chewed up wires or loose wires first
good luck
yea the vss either take the top part off and replace it or replace the whole thine
obviously you should check to see if there is any chewed up wires or loose wires first
good luck
08-07-2007, 03:29 AM
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Re: Need some knowledgable/experienced help, timing troubles. (SIXTY-1HATCH)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SIXTY-1HATCH »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the arrows need to pont to the left and sit in a straight line with the deck/head just like you said.
yea the vss either take the top part off and replace it or replace the whole thine
obviously you should check to see if there is any chewed up wires or loose wires first
good luck </TD></TR></TABLE>
Good deal. Thanks for the help guys.
If it doesn't stop raining soon I'll just pull it into our warehouse and inspect the VSS, it's plug, and the wiring both in the engine bay as well as by the ECU.
The other issue will have to wait till I get home so I can use my impact and all that jazz.
I'll keep you guys posted. Thanks again!
yea the vss either take the top part off and replace it or replace the whole thine
obviously you should check to see if there is any chewed up wires or loose wires first
good luck
</TD></TR></TABLE>Good deal. Thanks for the help guys.
If it doesn't stop raining soon I'll just pull it into our warehouse and inspect the VSS, it's plug, and the wiring both in the engine bay as well as by the ECU.
The other issue will have to wait till I get home so I can use my impact and all that jazz.
I'll keep you guys posted. Thanks again!
08-07-2007, 05:50 AM
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Re: Need some knowledgable/experienced help, timing troubles. (Forty04)
Checked the plug, looks like theres some gunk on the middle terminal.
Reset the ECU, started the car, and the CEL came on solid, no flashing this time. I will pull that code when I go out for lunch.
Reset the ECU, started the car, and the CEL came on solid, no flashing this time. I will pull that code when I go out for lunch.
08-07-2007, 09:06 AM
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Re: Need some knowledgable/experienced help, timing troubles. (Forty04)
Tried pulling the code...no flashing.
Jumpered it, turned key to II position, and the CEL will not flash. Stays solid
wtf?
Jumpered it, turned key to II position, and the CEL will not flash. Stays solid
wtf?
08-07-2007, 09:18 AM
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Re: Need some knowledgable/experienced help, timing troubles. (Forty04)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Forty04 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Tried pulling the code...no flashing.
Jumpered it, turned key to II position, and the CEL will not flash. Stays solid
wtf?</TD></TR></TABLE>
If the CEL stays solid with the car jumped, you have no codes.
Jumpered it, turned key to II position, and the CEL will not flash. Stays solid
wtf?</TD></TR></TABLE>
If the CEL stays solid with the car jumped, you have no codes.
08-07-2007, 10:12 AM
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Re: Need some knowledgable/experienced help, timing troubles. (Forty04)
alright, this **** is getting nutty...
Just started the car, and got a solid CEL.
Jumpered it, and the CEL comes on solid, short pause, then solid for a long time.
Short pause
Solid for a long time. Short pause, solid, short pause solid long time
Just started the car, and got a solid CEL.
Jumpered it, and the CEL comes on solid, short pause, then solid for a long time.
Short pause
Solid for a long time. Short pause, solid, short pause solid long time
08-08-2007, 06:29 AM
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Re: Need some knowledgable/experienced help, timing troubles. (Forty04)
Car is ******* possesed...
It's throwing codes at random, and blinking the codes even without being jumpered. When I do have it jumpered, the CEL comes on and stays solid, as if there are no codes. But when I pull my wire out of the jumper, turn the key to ON, it flashes codes, wtf?!?
I completely removed the ECU last night to let it fully reset. I won't know whether or not that changed anything until around 4:00 when I get home from work.
But have any of you ever heard of such a thing? Showing codes while not in diagnostics mode, and NOT flashing them when in diagnostics mode??
It's throwing codes at random, and blinking the codes even without being jumpered. When I do have it jumpered, the CEL comes on and stays solid, as if there are no codes. But when I pull my wire out of the jumper, turn the key to ON, it flashes codes, wtf?!?
I completely removed the ECU last night to let it fully reset. I won't know whether or not that changed anything until around 4:00 when I get home from work.
But have any of you ever heard of such a thing? Showing codes while not in diagnostics mode, and NOT flashing them when in diagnostics mode??
08-08-2007, 06:36 AM
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Re: Need some knowledgable/experienced help, timing troubles. (Forty04)
Did you jump the service connector while setting your timing?
If not then the ecu will be trying to change your setting.
If not then the ecu will be trying to change your setting.
08-08-2007, 06:37 AM
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I have an unrelated question to the fact that your car is posessed...
When you did your swap, did you get an obd2 oil pump to put in the d16z6, or did you just splice an obd1 plug onto your harness?
When you did your swap, did you get an obd2 oil pump to put in the d16z6, or did you just splice an obd1 plug onto your harness?
08-08-2007, 07:20 AM
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Re: Need some knowledgable/experienced help, timing troubles. (jayjay)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jayjay »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Did you jump the service connector while setting your timing?
If not then the ecu will be trying to change your setting.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yessir, I always jump the connector when setting timing, adjusting idle, etc..
If not then the ecu will be trying to change your setting.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yessir, I always jump the connector when setting timing, adjusting idle, etc..
08-08-2007, 07:40 AM
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Re: Need some knowledgable/experienced help, timing troubles. (Forty04)
Did you use the Z6 or a Y8 camshaft gear? They are different in case you didn't know. As for the ECU CEL issues, sounds like you have a wire or loose connection somewhere. You sure when you cut the jumper that the jumper can't vibrate or whatever and periodically make/break contact?
08-08-2007, 09:27 AM
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Re: Need some knowledgable/experienced help, timing troubles. (Hybrid96EK)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid96EK »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Did you use the Z6 or a Y8 camshaft gear? They are different in case you didn't know. As for the ECU CEL issues, sounds like you have a wire or loose connection somewhere. You sure when you cut the jumper that the jumper can't vibrate or whatever and periodically make/break contact?</TD></TR></TABLE>
That is sort of what I'm thinking. I need to take a closer look today when I get home. What will really tell the tale, is when I get the new (virgin) ecu in tomorrow or Friday, and see what that does.
I used the camshaft gear that came on the z6 motor. As far as I know it is stock. Here is a close up pic, not sure if that will help or not..
That is sort of what I'm thinking. I need to take a closer look today when I get home. What will really tell the tale, is when I get the new (virgin) ecu in tomorrow or Friday, and see what that does.
I used the camshaft gear that came on the z6 motor. As far as I know it is stock. Here is a close up pic, not sure if that will help or not..
08-08-2007, 09:50 AM
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Re: Need some knowledgable/experienced help, timing troubles. (Forty04)
still not working huh? i would deffinatly wait and see what the virgin ecu does, where did u get that BTW?
08-08-2007, 10:24 AM
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Re: Need some knowledgable/experienced help, timing troubles. (cpl rampage)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cpl rampage »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">still not working huh? i would deffinatly wait and see what the virgin ecu does, where did u get that BTW?</TD></TR></TABLE>
ef-honda.com Guy out of Ohio was selling it. Pretty random coincidence considering he posted it the day I was having my issues
ef-honda.com Guy out of Ohio was selling it. Pretty random coincidence considering he posted it the day I was having my issues
08-08-2007, 10:37 AM
#23
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Re: Need some knowledgable/experienced help, timing troubles. (Forty04)
That is a Z6 gear. You have the correct gear. Looks like the marks line up fine in the pic also.
08-08-2007, 11:22 AM
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Re: Need some knowledgable/experienced help, timing troubles. (Hybrid96EK)
I think the angle of the shot is making it look more aligned than it really is. I seem to remember it being a bit off. I'll update when I konw for sure.
