CTR_B

iTrader: (1)

Im trying to narrow down my issue Im having. The other day I was on the freeway and did a 5th gear excel, got to about 3-5psi tops and when I got off and back to crusing it had a bad missfire. I shut the car of and turned it back on and the miss fire went away. I drove for about 25 more mins and got to my destination. Left the car for about 2hrs and when I went to leave I had a real bad miss fire again. Well I thought it as just a bad or fouled plug and continued my way home about a 1/2 mile down the road I noticed smoke so I pulled over and it was coming out my valve cover.

I did a compression test today and it was 1.175 2.173 3.165 4.100 After that I put a little oil in the cyl and it maybe went upto 105. I checked the timing and its dead on. Plugs look a little suity but that kinda typical for turbo right? there was no oil pressent on them at all. People are telling me its the head/valve others are telling me its the rings/pistons/block.

I want to know what you all think. B16 t04e

Kendall

Your cylinders are numbered backwards, renumber them first.

Your smoking problem is that there is blow by in cylinder one. The fix involves tearing the motor down.

CTR_B

iTrader: (1)

Lol ok I got them backwards Im sorry

Tearing the motor down, I already knew this. It stated that Im trying narrow the cause down.. Block, Head, piston, Rings, valve, Valve seal Ect...

Kendall

It's most likely a ring issue.

CTR_B

iTrader: (1)

If its a ring issue how does it cause a blow by to the valve cover then?

Not douting just wondering/learning

CTR_B

iTrader: (1)

ttt

h-duced

you said you wanted to break it before the season was over you werent joking lol that sucks man sorry to hear that

CTR_B

iTrader: (1)

lol but its not the end of the season yet

B18C5-EH2

You'll basically need to tear it down in order to determine what broke in the engine.

You could have combination of piston damage, piston ring damage, cylinder wall damage, burnt/bent valve, etc.

I mean if you want to know how the engine can smoke through the valvecover the explanation is fairly simple - if you've got a busted piston/ring then it can allow pressure to escape into the crankcase/oil pan during the compression stroke. That pressure will find a way out, expelling smoke along with it.

CTR_B

iTrader: (1)

Lol I knew you would reply sooner or later..

I can't see bending a valve as the timing is dead on,
i could see blowing a piston ring though.. thanks for the help

B18C5-EH2

Well in your case a burnt vlve is much more likely than a bent valve, but I was just giving some different scenarios.

CTR_B

iTrader: (1)

I hate to be a pest or noobish but could you explain how you get a burned valve (Turbo application)

Im just looking to find a place to begin searching for and now I think its down to a valve or piston ring

h-duced

When you figure out what the problem is take your motor to LAM Engines in kenosha for your machine work!!! Russ is the fn man

fastrc2

ok here is the lowdown on what your problem is, you havent done enough testign but youve done some, you have good compression on 3 out of 4 cylenders, the cylender that has the 100 psi, thats the one to watch. you put in oil, which was good, this is to see if its the rings, if it is the oil temporarly simulates a better seal, and the compression wil be better for a test. well you repeated and it didnt get better, so now lets verify this with a leakdown test, geta leakdown tester, or if your crafty some compression testers, you can take the valve out of the end of the hose that threads into the plug hole. then put that cylender at TDC of compression, then put shop air to it, check the throttle body for air coming out, check the exhaust pipe, and then take off the oil cap, and check there. when you check each, listen and feel the area with your hand. this lets you know where the air is going, for sure. if not any of these places, check the radiator, but based on what you've said i doubt it. if the air comes out of the throttle, then you have a leaking intake valve, if the air comes out of the exhaust pipe, then you have a leaky exhaust valve, if the air is coming out of the oil hole then it should be rings, and then the oil should help, but it didnt, assuming it did coat the entire ring surface. now as for your smoking, some is normal, but that port where you said smoke was coming from, that is supposed to me routed into the air intake pipe between the air filter and the throttle body. do this checks and let me know what you find. this way you know how deep or of what major assemblies of the engine need attention. good luck

fastrc2

o and to ctr 8, reguardless of turbo or not, a burned valve is this, when a valve opens, the wide flat area that is facing the combustion, is exposed to immense heat, for the fleeting moment the vlave is shut, this heat is transferred to the seat, and then to the head. well especially when using NOS due to high combustuion temperature, or high RPM, the valves time shut is less, and its tendency to float even the slightest bit, [floating is when the valve moves so fast, it cant fully seat shut before cam says open again] and when floating occurs even less ehat can be absorbed intot he head, and so more and mroe heat loads up in the large flat face of the valve that the softest spot of the valve kinda mushes over and most compression is gone, and then the motor goes wonk wonka chug chug, and your upse that you have a bad misfire. and a burned valve is more likely to happen to exhaust valves because when they open more hot goes by whereas the intakes, when they open, they get relatively cool air and wet fuel mist. so they are inherently cooler running valves.

CTR_B

iTrader: (1)

I have a leak down tester.. I work at a shop so I have about any and all tools at my access.

This problem just confused me as it, Runs with a miss fire or chugg like it jumped timing (but didnt) Smokes out that port that goes the the intake pipe and has low compression in that cyl.

From the ideas that Im getting Im starting to assume that I burned a valve.

CTR_B

iTrader: (1)

This just sucks cause this is my second head in a month, My first head was due to a timing belt breakage and now this.

CTR_B

iTrader: (1)

Well today was slow here at the shop do I decided no better day then today to tear into her.

So I pulled the head off and I dont see and problems with the vales? No mushroom or bent issues that are visual. Im going to go deeper in to the head later this week.

Pulled the motor and got it on a stand. There is some minor scratch's in the cyl walls but they still look alright? The cyl that had 100 compression doesnt have any noticable marks but Tomorrow Im going to go further into it as this is where I think my problem lies... I will take some pics and put them up later for everyone.

Now that its apart what is the easiest way to investigate into my issue?

EkFG

burnt valve. or ring .... do a leak down test

fastrc2

well now that you took it apart you CANT do a leakdown test, i am not trying to bust your *****, but if you had done the leak test as i had suggested prior to you "racing for the clitoris" as some put it, you would know as to weather or not to be looking tat the cylender walls and rings or the valves. and i had explained that the valves can burn, a minor burnt vlave, cannot be seen if its bad visualy while its closed and installed into the head, you would have to remove the valves that the leakdown test had suggested. but anyhoo, here is the next trick, if the head is off, wiotht he cam out of it, so all valves are shut hard by springs, have spark plugs in, and then flip the head over, and fill each chamber with solvent. dont use anything else than brake cleen or parts solvent, as the solvent is so thin, it fits into tiny spaces water cant. and if the level drops either instantly or within 10 minutes, look as to which ports its coming out of. fi the head holds solvent, then i would just yank all rings, and measure the cylender wall s for out of round, taper, and if the cylenders measure out fine, then hone them and put all new rings on all pistons.

CTR_B

iTrader: (1)

Just so Im understanding correctly,

Im to put brake cleaner or parts cleaning fluid in each chambers as if Im duing a water leak down test correct? Why cant I just use water?

If this is correct then I know what and how to do the test as I have done this with water before. Also I know which cyl it is thats bad so worse comes to worse I could just swap out those 4 valves. But if I were to do that I would just fix my built,ported gsr head that has a bent valve lol.

fastrc2

okay dont take any of this the wrong way, you dont know enough for a long lasting repair for head work, when i said fill the chambers, i want to clarify that i meant the chamber of the head, with the head upside down, and not into the block ont he pistons. anyways, when i said solvent was thin, what i mean is, that its all about viscosity, you know how there is like a 5w30 thats thinner weight oil, [easier to flow] than lets say gear oil, commonly 90weight, well this weight, the rating of the liquid ability to flow throught a specific hole at a specific temperature at a cpecific rate of flow, is a measure of that. water is very thin, but not like solvent, you know how when you spill water on the floor, it generally "stands" there, or it can bead up, or stoand over an edge before it gushes over, whereas solvent, just creeps out and soaks in and floows the slightest bit of gravity. solvent can penetrate the smallest of holes or clearances, so i guess a way to put it is if the head leaks a little couple drops of water over 10 minutes, the solvent will flow out as fast as you pour it in. and once you determine the location of the leak, you have to find out what the cause is, bent valve? or burned valve? there are many ways to find this stuff, you also need to measure the valves contact surface using prussian blue, and also how thick is the valve margin,a nd sealing area on the valve seat. all this info healps you know as to qweather or not you need to cut the valve seats, or replace the valve seats or lap the valves or replace the valves. if this is too much for you i reccomend a reputable shop, if you can take it on great lets get it done! btu we need to verifyt he problem, to know if you got it fixed, otherwise it would be very sour to see that after you reassemble its the same or slightly better. also i forgot to add, if its a burned valve, we need to find the cause, a weak or broken valve spring, or a hung lifter, improper valve adjustment? or just a lot of high revving driving?

CTR_B

iTrader: (1)

I understand what you are saying, well most of it. One thing Im confused on, Do you want me to use Brake cleaner/Parts cleaner or Water

I am capable of handling this, If I run into something that I don't know how to do I usually pick up / Learn fast Also we have a master tech at the shop but he only works part time. He wasn't in today and one of the reasons I didnt dig any further into the engine.

When I get to the shop tomorrow I will do as you said with his supervision.
Thanks

CTR_B

iTrader: (1)

Well today I tried what you told me and Are master tech agreed and supervised.

It took maybe 3hr for the brake cleaner to pass threw the head on each cyl and about the same for the block. So if it took that long to pass threw what is the problem?

fastrc2

so all cylenders of the head dont leak the solvent? or did you just put solvent in the low compression one? if all cylenders are ok, then either its the rings, but i have never ehard of using th solvent to check the rings. so either its the rings, or valve timing, or bad valve adjustment on that cylender. the valve adjust ment was already destrioyed and cant be checked bacuase you already took that stuff apart. you use the solvent not water, because its easier for solvent to leak through the valves. when you poured the solvent intot he block on the piston, where was the piston at? was it at TDC? or BDC? try comparing it witht he piston at top, bottom and in the middle