B18C5-EH2

I posted this in a multi-page comparison of the EG vs. EK, but since nobody's replying to it then I'm starting another topic.

I'm such a bitch

Anyways:

*Disclaimer***
I usually refrain from calling all 1992-1995 hatches EG, but for this thread I'm going to and FYI when I say EG I mean the 1992-1995 hatch. I also don't usually call all 1996-2000 hatches EK, but again for this thread I am because I don't feel like calling it EJ whatever.

***End of disclaimer***

Okay I figured I would go ahead and chime in with my thoughts on the whole EG vs. EK thing.

First of all I'm typing this up on notepad at work without access to H-T right now, so forgive me if I repeat something that has already been said in the debate. I'm pulling this from my head mostly since I cannot yet verify specs and whatnot, so if I'm off a bit I'll come back and fix anything I might have missed.

I also want to say that I like both the EG and EK hatches and in no way does anything I say in this post mean that I don't like the EK, but I like the EG better and here's why:

1. Cost. Initial cost of an EG is cheaper than an EK. I personally know of 10 or more locals here in GA that have purchased good bodied, running 1992-1993 hatches for $2,000 or less - I got mine for $300.00 after selling out the B16A that it had in it along with the HalTech stand-alone ECU in it too. Barring miraculous deals though, the EG will be cheaper than the average EK. The older the car is the cheaper the insurance is too.

For the price of an EK I can get an EG and swap in a decent motor like a SOHC VTEC, LS swap, or even a second-gen 170hp B16A for $1850.00 plus $240.00 for shipping and customs from http://www.osakajdmmotors.com

Makes sense?

2. Weight. The EG hatches are lighter. This is a fact that you cannot dispute. I am very weight conscious, and I like knowing that my car with full interior will weigh the same as a gutted EK hatch - gutted EGs will always weigh less than gutted EKs. The amount that you let weight influence your buying decision is probably different from myself and others though. Remember though, lighter = quicker and better braking with less fade if both cars are modded equally.

3. Anything and everything from an Integra pretty much bolts into the EG - not so with the EK. In an EG the entire suspension and brakes can bolt directly up to an EG from an Integra. This gives the EG owner 1994-2001 to look for sus and brake stuff. The EK needs 99-00 Civic Si rear trailing amrs, correct? If not then you'd have to press hubs and swap hub parts, right? Integra seats bolt right into then EG, but not in the EK, right? A 5-lug conversion on an EG bolts right up from the ITR, but not so for the EK because of the rear longer LCAs, right? Bolt-on stuff makes the EG less headache-proned.

4. While we're talking Integra stuff, let's talk swaps. Swaps in the EG are simply easier. You can bolt any hydro-trannied B-Series into an EG and pretty much keep any USDM engine harness too - OBD1 or OBD2 harnesses will plug right up in the EG. Not so with the EK since they all have the long-*** engine harness that goes through the firewall. EK needs either to use the stock engine harness and add plugs and wires, or convert it all to EX-specs. The EG will use either the Integra mounts (timing cover side mount and front and rear Integra brackets are a must) and the rest can be stock Civic mounts. You will have to mix and match mounts for the EK. Again if you don't mind the extra effort, then go ahead.

If you're lucky enough to get a 1992 Civic or any 1993-1995 VX, Si, or EX then the wiring for a swap is super easy for any USDM motor and JDM motors aren't that hard either. My USDM B18C5 swap PLUGGED in and I did not have to wire one single wire because I run a re-chipped kenji P28 ECU.

5. EG is OBD1 while the EK is OBD2. Not a big deal? Well depending on where you live yes it can be a big deal. "But I can just buy a convertor harhess and an OBD1 ECU in my EK, right?" Well not in certain parts of the country where emissions tests require a connection with an OBD2 scanner and it needs to communicate with an OBD2 ECU.

OBD2 limits the range of motors you can use. How are you going to smog a JDM motor? Damn you'll miss all those great deals on 1994-1995 motors and 1996-under JDM motors too! See what I mean? An EG allows you to run any OBD1 or OBD2 motor with either the OBD1 or OBD2 ECU if you like. Since the EG is OBD1 though, why bother? Can you say $1850.00 JDM SiR/SiRII second-gen 170hp B16A swap directly into a 1992-1995 hatch? Hell the price difference between the EG and EK is probably more than that!

OBD1 is more tuner friendly. Want to argue with that? Go argue with Hondata, Spoon, Mugen, Jun, etc. who all use the OBD1 P28 ECU to base their ECU stuff off of. Also to go OBD1 in an EK will cost a pretty hefty amount of loot. The jumper harness will be roughly $250.00 or so and a re-chipped P28 is about $300.00, right?

6. Lowering an EG is less hassles. I'm crazy, right? No actually with an EG you can lower it and choose a few cheaper front end camber correction kits. EKs require the purchase of all-new upper A-arms with camber adjusters in them. EGs can use the cheaper and just as effective upper "knuckle" kits that cost 1/2 as much. Plus the EK comes from the factory with almost full negative rear camber already - meaning after you lower it and you try to correct the rear camber you will need much more correction, and you're more likely to need to roll the fenders because EKs are more proned to scrubbing than an EG with the same exact wheel/tire combo.

How do I know? Because I've done plenty of lowered EG and EK alignments with the famous Rota/205-50-15 Falken Azenis combo, and the EKs are always the ones that scrub more which requires raising the car up or making it have more negative camber than Honda allows, which is -2.0 for the EK in the rear and -1.3 for the EG. This is from experience, not hearsay.

7. If you like a factory moonroof, rear disks, cruise control, and a 125hp SOHC VTEC motor then the 1992-1995 Si is your choice. EK never had anything better than a DX to offer. This doesn't mean much to most people though - myself included.

8. Black interior standard on many EG hatches. This is not so with the EK. Hope you like light grey only, because that's all you'll get. I personally love the hell out of the EG black interior. You like light grey or even bluie? The EG offers that too.

9. Stock seats in the EK sit you up too high and have absolutely no lateral support. For those who cannot buy seats, the EG has much better stock seats IMO in terms of hold and comfort. The EK style seats feel like Accord seats. While the EG seats might be uglier with the unibar headrest, they do support/hold better in the turns.

10. All USDM EKs had dual airbags. So what? Well if you remove the airbags for weight reduction then you'll have a gaping hole in the passenger side of the dashboard. 1992-1993 EGs had one airbag, making it as easy as locating a 1992-1993 dash to fill the hole where your airbag would have been. Airbag delete trays are available for the EK, but they are hard to find.

Let's talk body real quick, shall we? Most of this will be factual, but some of it will have my own personal opinion injected too.

1. Body parts and pricing. I called the local Honda dealer and asked them about list pricing on a bunch of common body parts for the 1992-1995 hatch, the 1996-1998 hatch, and the 1999-2000 hatch for comparison.

My list included:

Hood
Fenders
Bumper Covers front and rear
Headlights
Corner lenses for the 1992-1995 for fair comparison vs. the 1996-2000 integrated assy.

The 1992-1995 and 1996-1998 were only $2.15 apart, but the 1999-2000 was about $115.00 more than the 1992-1995 hatch stuff. Oh yeah and add in the costs of the 1996-2000 grille crap and it's easily over $200.00 to fix an EK type front end over an EG.

Once I get the comprehensive list faxed over I'll list the various parts and prices - these are normal list prices straight from Honda. I'm interested to see which parts costed more for each model and which ones were the cheapest.

2. The EG had no distinct exterior changes from 1992-1995 like the EK had. This comes in handy when looking for used parts because it gives you a total of 4 years to look through as opposed to just 3 for the 1996-1998 hatch or worse, just 2 years for the 1999-2000 hatch. The very distinct front end splits from 1998-1999 on the hatch may be a good or bad thing depending on who you ask. there are some who don't like the 1996-1998 front end as evidenced by the common 1996-1998 front end conversions to 1999-2000 specs, while some like the 1996-1998 style because they can use the JDM wrap-around bumpers. I personally like the 99-00 style better, but I must admit that the wrap-around bumpers look great with the SiR-type front lip in matching black.

3. The EG was available without side moldings in the CX and VX models which some may love, while all EKs had side moldings which some may not like.

4. The EG had a black strip that ran along the entire bottom of the car including the front bumper, side skirts, and rear bumper. Now I know this sounds picky, but I really dig that a lot. I'm all about flow, so the EG is better in this department IMO. Why? Because the EK doesn't have the black strip on the front or rear bumper covers, yet the side skirt is unpainted black plastic. Unless you paint the side skirts it looks weird IMO, but I'd still like a black trim all the way around the bottom like the EG has if you're running unpainted black side moldings. The 1996-1998 hatches with the SiR-style black front lip look killer, but then you get to the rear bumper cover and it doesn't flow well with the rest of the bottom of the car that's unpainted black plastic. 1999-2000 hatches pretty much limit you to buying a pre-painted Si front lip that you either have repainted, but then it doesn't match the black side skirts. In other words in order to make the bottom of the EK flow better, you'll be painting some stuff.

5. The 1992-1995 hatch has separate headlight and corner lens assemblies. The 1996-up has an integrated headlight and corner assembly. I will not even touch on the looks aspect, but I will say that it's easier to deal with rock chips in a 1992-1995 hatch when all you might have to do is replace a corner lens if a rock hits it. Not so for the 1996-2000 hatch. If you catch a rock on the very corner of the turn signal, you're buying an entire much more expensive headlight/corner combo assembly. Not a big deal to some, but after seeing a lot of broken corner lenses on 1992-1995 hatches those $40.00 fake visions look awefully better than having to buy an expensive-*** 1996-2000 entire headlight assembly.

6. The 1992-1995 Civic does not have a front grille in between the front bumper cover and hood, but the 1996-2000 hatch does. Looks aside, in the event of an accident the 1996-2000 Civic parts will cost more because you have the grille molding, and the grille itself to replace. Now in terms of looks I like the non-grilled 1992-1995 front better because it looks more sleek to me, but that's strictly my opinion.

How much do those grille parts cost?

1996-1998 - $76.00 for the grille, molding, and emblem.
1999-2000 - $131.00 for the same stuff

Now in terms of stock colors available, the EK or EG might have the upper hand depending on who you ask.

The 1992-1995 hatch came in:

2 different light teals - Tahitian Green and Aztec Green
1 darker teal - Paradise Blue-Green
Dark Blue - Harvard Blue
Dark Grey - Phamntom Grey
White - Frost white
Red - Milano Red
Lighter Blue - Captiva Blue
Black (Si only) - Granada Black

The 1996-up EK style hatch came in:

Light Green - Midori Green
Dark Purple - Dark Amythest Pearl
Better then EG black - Flamenco Black Pearl
White - Frost white, right?
Red - Milano and Roma, right?
Silver - Vogue Silver Metallic

So IMO it's a toss-up on which generation has the upper hand in terms of colors. The EG has the bad-*** blues and a pimp dark grey, while the EK has the love it or hate it green and a bad-*** Silver. I have had both Granada black (stock 1992-1995 Si black) and then Flamenco Black (had my 1992 Si repainted that color) and IMO the Flamenco is much better - that's the EK black.

The EK had the questionable Dark Amythest Pearl while the Eg had 3 variations on teal. Some like these colors while others hate them.

Then again if a total color change is in your plans who gives a damn, right? I took my favorite O.E color from the 1996-up hatch, Vogue Silver Metallic, and repainted my 1992 CX that color.

Now if I had to list any plusses for the EK, it would probably go like this:

1. Newer so more quality hatches available with lower miles. If you have the loot and you want the newest car possible, the EK is for you. Get a super low mileage 2000 EK and don't worry about a repaint. Also there's less chance that you'll get a rusted newer EK then the older EGs.

2. The Civic Type R in Japan. Really cool JDM CTR goodies to make the EK better. O.E quality is unmatched, so those bad-*** CTR body parts like headlights, bumpers, lips, etc. are definately a plus.

3. EKs are less likely to be totalled in a not so major accident. Egs are older, cheaper, and thus less valuable to the insurance company, so in the event of a halfway serious accident you have a higher chance of getting to keep your EK. This comes in handy if you have a swap or a shitload or parts on the car that you'd like to keep from having to transfer onto another shell. I know that if my EG is totalled or worse, stolen my check will be not so great.

4. *IF* you are a JDM buff then the EK might appeal more to you. Why? Because there are more NEW JDM EK parts available than the EG. Plus the JDM EK parts really stick out above the EG parts. Like the headlights, side moldings, rear spoiler, and especially the JDM 1996-1998 wrap-around molding bumpers. The EG stuff is hard to find new, and although the used stuff is cheaper than the used EK stuff it doesn't look or perform much better than the USDM counterpart.

Example?

I wanted new headlights for my EG. I could not find brand new JDM plastic ones, so Igot USDM ones because they were new. I like the plastic ones better for weight, but I don't like the liklihood of them looking really used.


Overall when we compare mods and parts avaliability, the EG and EK are about the same. Most anything you can get in carbon fiber for an EG can be had for an EK too, and vice versa.

So there you have it. My discertation on the EG vs. EK debate. A little of my info was tainted with some opinions, but they were usually based on facts from what I've seen and experienced first-hand. In closing I'm still an EG guy for sure, but again I'm saying that I do like the EK. The EK might require more work and cost more, but to some people it's worth it.

If I had an unlimited budget I'd still build an EG based on my personal opinions in terms of styling, and of course because of weight. That's just my opinion though.

...End of copy and paste.

mantic6t9

hahahahaha. Didn't get enough respect in the other thread so you made your own. I would too if i put that much effort into it

JDM92CX

Such good info man

BeerBaron105

i gave u props so SHUT UP!! jk

mikwon

much props, it would of took me a day to write that

civic duty

It looks like you put a lot of effort and thought into this post. There is a lot of good info.

JDM92CX

Why us EF guys can't get something like this..... I have a question for you B18C5-EH2. Have you thought about putting your car in the magazine?

Paranoid Android

what the hell was that all about...

what do you DO at work...

i read the disclaimer and that was it...you have rambled about this matchup too much.

97hb

Thats how it is in Texas . I asked the guy if the motor was obd1 in an obd2 car and he said it is illegal and the connector will not work. He also said it is federal law that if it cannot hook to the scanner for some reason then they have to dyno smog test it , witch is even worse.

SpoonFedHatch

wow....very informative...makes me glad that i have a 92!!! aztec green pearl eh2....btw tom, why am i at 95%???!!!!!

JDM_Sol

awesome thread.....

Blue-Civic-Hybrid

iTrader: (1)

Good article, and i enjoyed reading it very much. It's always good to read apost like this, let's me know there are people out there who are still car nuts like myself

N1NjA TuRtLE

damn B18C5-EH2 are you like the smartest Honda guy in this whole goddamn honda-tech.com forum?

SlowazzGSR

Dude, that was one of the most informative posts Ive ever read compsring 2 very popular choices for hybrids. Your a moron and a fucknut for bashing this guys work which obviously took him some time. Who cares what he does at work, that is irrelevant to his comparison so stfu.

MADEinJAPAN

Good Review! Thanks for making me feel all bad for buying a 96 Dx....Just kiddin. Just for your info....the 96-98 was available in Granada Black too...thats what color mine is...and yes flemenco is better(thats what color my 99 GSR was)

1.8EG-T

Damn...that was a good review...love my EG.

spoonef

Can we make this a sticky or whatever? so noobs can see it before they ask questions.Theres a lot of good info thank you Tom

ransack

very informative Tom. i didnt know that the "EG" hatch has so many compatabilties with all the civic and tegs. I was a a point of getting a 95 Si. Clean clean as one too. it was 6500 from a dealer..I know its alot, but it has 70,000 on it and was just plain nice. I really wanted a EK, but I needed a car(IT HAD to be a civic hatch). Well that EG sold and then next week I found a EK.

I dont regret buying my EK. I love it. My attraction is towards the EK, but wow. If I ever want a good project civic, EG is the way to go!

great post Tom

-Whitey-

i read #1 and 2 then i decided that eg's own

mycivicstoo(s)low

Great post, Tom.
Very informative.

vladd

sweet article! just one correction, 96-98 was granada black, only 99-00 was flamenco black pearl.

FDragger

i actually read the whole thing. all your info is pretty much correct. but you forgot to mention that the EK > EG when it comes to looks

97hb

Yeah, but I may be biased .

POLLO

*clap*clap*clap

The best informative post that I have ever read from any car related BBS moderator.

No offense to the other great mods/admins of this site, but I feel this thread deserves a huge

x 100

Bleed Black

Got time?


I like the EKs for daily cruising(IE looks good with some go power) and EGs for go fast period. MY opinion . I love them both but still prefer EKs (hence I have one).