W95civicEXcoupe

Something I want to post about that happened yesterday. I was driving my car along.. all was normal. Gas gauge showing 1/4 full.. nothing out of the ordinary. I felt the engine running below the idle RPMs, which are quite low. I gave it some gas.. it took a second or two, but then revved up. However.. it went right back to "idling low" (while driving down the road) and.. sensing something was wrong, I pulled into a parking lot, to attempt to diagnose.

Short version: Now has "Crank no start." Will check after work today, to see if it starts back up. Had that happen with plenty of cars.. it won't start then, no matter WHAT you do.. come back the next day, it starts perfect. ? - But this is my first Honda.

Longer version: 1) I checked for Spark. I have spark.
2) I scraped all the money I had, and added 1.666 gallons of fuel, courtesy two trips to a gas station, on foot, with a loaned gas container.

Now, the odd part: When I FIRST added the gas, it acted like the engine wanted to start/catch. It didnt. (I also did PLENTY of "priming the fuel pump," turning key to ignition, then back.. must have done that like 30 times.)

I had to get pushed by a Dodge Caravan good samaritan to a safe parking space (safe parking space = car not towed, in a place I never been before.)

I want to thank this board, as it has some incredibly knowledgeable members.

Now.. I must go back to work, but the next time I check this thread, will be sometime in the evening, or tomorrow. Not sure yet. Phone is out, service is off. So, IF it starts.. I will drive it.. cautious about why this happened.

Any thoughts or ideas about this behavior?

*The engine seems healthy, just won't start...

No overheating..
APPEARS to have gas..
Has spark...
Have NOT yet checked fuse, I need to get pliers to do all that...

Check Fuel Pump fuse first? Which one is that? Why would that blow, anyways? ...

tony_2018

Any signs of oil on the spark plugs? Ohm out the spark plugs for resistance, check the FAQ section to confirm your distributor is healthy and within spec. Check main relay.

lostforawhile

sounds like the fuel pump quit, have you been running it really low on gas a lot? they need the gas in the tank to keep the pump from overheating, a bad pump will make it feel exactly like you are out of gas or running out of gas, you need a test light, I say test light, because it' easier to see from the drivers seat, or someone to turn the key over, to verify current at the pump connector while priming, if there is current, and the pump doesn't make noise, it's the pump

edwinie26

second the fuel pump: check if the fuel pump primes when you turn the key.

JohnSamTest

Pump or filter

W95civicEXcoupe

I love it when you guys are on point. I will tell you that:

1. YES I have been running it low on fuel. As much as I want or wanted to believe that "that would not hurt the fuel pump on a Honda." So.. Yes, guilty on the low fuel situation. I did that primarily to help the Redline SI-1 super fuel system cleaner that is really that good, but... sometimes, I go to excess.

2. I can say, now, that.. I actually *was* listening for the "hrrrmmm" or a fuel pump engage at key turn. I can tell you that I heard nothing. My Blazer? I hear it. Pretty much any other car? I can hear it (although I have met the car with no "whirrrr" that starts right up. Just saying.) But.. this is true.

And the third clue: As much as I did or did not want to say anything, I can tell you that the gas gauge has been fluxuating, ever so slightly. I have had enough vehicles to know - off the top of my head: 1. 1989 Nissan 240SX, where EXACTLY this happened; 2. 1991 Chevy S-10 Blazer, where I RAN OUT OF GAS when the gas gauge said I had 3 bars of gas, or almost a quarter tank. That one really got me... 3. Another Nissan, 4. My Jaguar needed to run, period. So... The FUEL PRESSURE is what I understand makes the gas gauge fluxuate. Yes, there is a float or something, but.. IF the fuel pump is "on the way out," then that changing pressure makes the gas level... change. And I HAVE seen this. Not just on sharp turns..

So, we have a somewhat strong case to suspect Fuel Pump. As I had kept telling my passenger: "It really feels like out of gas. Really feels like out of gas."

And, FWIW, when we FIRST. FIRSTfirstfirst introduced more fuel.. it briefly ALMOST started. Then.. it didn't.

So, next question: I have a guy I trust that will diagnose. What am I looking at for a 1995 Honda Civic EX... fuel pump.

$150? $300? I have paid both for fuel pump jobs. (Nissan: Was NOT in the tank.. there was an access door. Blazer? .. Oh God.)

Thank you... ?

W95civicEXcoupe

This will be the perfect time to change those plugs.. I was told that "they look burnt up." Spark looked weak to me...

Did not see oil, but that was like 4000 miles ago, lol.

Engine seems really healthy. It is from a 2000 with what WAS 79,000 miles.

lostforawhile

gas gauge has nothing to do with fuel pressure, the windings inside these pumps are open armature, the fuel actually cools the windings, so with low fuel they start to get hot, like I said before you need something to verify current at the pump connector when you first turn over the key, there will be current for a couple of seconds, if there is current, then listen at the pump when someone turns over the key, no sound pump is gone

Outrun

I had similar symptoms but it was oil in the distributor.

NexusRift

I'm new in HT.com, but i'm not without experience regarding this issue.
All good points of diagnosis from everyone, but it does seem to be a FP issue. You're practice of not keeping your tank full exacerbates and eventually causes the failure of the FP unnecessarily sooner rather than later. Try this............

While your cranking the engine, get a buddy to whack the fuel tank with a rubber hammer. This procedure temporarily dislodges crud from the FP and allows to get fuel to the engine. This however is only just to tell you that the FP is indeed failing and not a cure.

Running a tank deliberately low for long lengths of time allows the condensation and such within to flake off more debris and therefore clogging the fuel delivery system. Usually the first thing to go is the overworked FP. You'll have to go over, and possibly replace all the components related to such.

MadVladCivic

[QUOTE=

So, next question: I have a guy I trust that will diagnose. What am I looking at for a 1995 Honda Civic EX... fuel pump.

$150? $300? I have paid both for fuel pump jobs. (Nissan: Was NOT in the tank.. there was an access door. Blazer? .. Oh God.)

Thank you... ?[/QUOTE]

So, I take it you are not going to do the repair yourself.....

More Information for DENSO 9510004

The fuel pump is accessed via a service panel under the rear seat
involving several (4 ?) screws. An electrical connection and a couple of
fuel lines. The pump is secured by 5 or 6 nuts. Tools needed are
Philips screwdriver, pliers, 10mm socket & extension and one or
two other common tools. Cruise youtube for a how-to vid.

egsleepercivic

check fuel pressure first, when the ignitor went on my 94ex it died like it was out of gas

delsolintegra

Don't buy a fuel pump yet.
93 to 95 civics have a fuel pump fail to prime problem that is related to the capacitors in the ECU being shorted due to moisture and heat over time (Now 20 years old). Specifically capacitor C14 in the fuel pump priming circuit. Borrow a known good ECU compatible with your car and try it first.
It's probably a P28 ECU. Check the label on the side of the ECU casing.

lostforawhile

this is why I suggested checking to see if current is reaching the pump on prime, easiest thing to check, if there is current when there is supposed to be, then that rules out electrical

edwinie26

i guess yea... if you are worried about money check with another ecu if you dont have another ecu get a meter to read current/ohms on the ecu connector pins.
As you switch the ignition to on, if you get a reading then its your pump. if you have no reading then it could be the ecu.
i dot recall the ecu pin number or iif it should read 12v to be honest but this is just making it more complicated ...

how about a spare pump that can be refunded?? buy it take it back if it doesnt work.
it will be much faster especially if you dont have much experience with an ohm meter. just throwing out options its hot i barely slept but at least i think im making sense

lostforawhile

if it is your pump try to avoid the cheap box store ones, advance, autozoned etc, unless it's a good name brand.

firehawk618

Grab a can of "quick start", spray a blast down your throttle body. Crank the engine over.

Did it start for a few seconds?

If so you're on the right track with fueling problem.

If not, look elsewhere.

W95civicEXcoupe

OK! UPDATE!!! After "many days" of driving "the gas guzzler" (Ford Expedition lol,) ... I finally got to spend all of about 15 minutes with the mechanic I trust... after business hours, and on his own personal time. (Turns out the politics of the shop there... were an issue. So he was doing me a favor all along by keeping it out of there... ok, moving along) -- and THE ISSUE IS NOT THE FUEL PUMP!!!

The issue is "power to the fuel pump."

The first thing he did was... look in the trunk. (Presumably for a fuel pump access door, like on my 1989 Nissan 240SX hatch.) Well, it was not in the trunk. (Remember, I am going into this, thinking that it will be a nightmare job, like the fuel pump on a 1993 Chevrolet S-10. Dropping tanks. Messy as expletive. Pump in near impossible locations. All that good stuff. Gas everywhere. Gas in eyes. Etc etc. Clothes smelling like gas, one less t-shirt because of acidic nature of gas. Etc. Ok.) -- Well.. The next thing he did was pop out the backseat!! It was a little rusty, very obvious that it had never been touched.

Then out came the test light!

The car started up right away.. about 5 or 6 times. We checked the fuses... and, after some starts and letting it die out (it seemed to at odd times,) the diagnosis was: Either a bad fuel pump relay, or to run an independent power wire to the fuel pump, probably with a switch just for it.

Given that I have next to no money, between:

1. Surcharges
2. Rent
3. Credit payments
4. Gas, etc...

--- Will report back tomorrow, but. Should be able to be fixed for about $50. My mechanic is a cool guy and I appreciate that he let me know WHY it wasn't IN the shop these past 4 days.

Past that, all I need to do is shoot some air in the driver side front tire - it is low and these tires are small but goody - and I am omw.

Heading out now.. this is my update!!!

Thank you all SO MUCH! :D

egsleepercivic

do this or by a new one

Main Relay Fix, Troubleshooting (Honda, Acura) and how to solder

when I did mine I just heated up the solder and added a little more, i didn't remove the old stuff

firehawk618

Main relay is the culprit most of the time.

Re-solder it or just replace it.

W95civicEXcoupe

Ok. Update: The "Fuel Pump Relay" - the one at the front, near the fuses under the dash by the driver's left foot, the one that said "Mitsuba" on it - has been replaced. The new one cost $85. So, that is new.

However....

This morning, upon going to leave for work, the car wanted to crank, and not start.

I lifted up the back seat (still loose, thank GOD - the seat, I mean) - UNplugged the fuel pump connector wire, and put it back in.

Then the car started.

So... what could that be an indicator of?

*This problem started suddenly, .. right about a week ago now. Car sat 4 or 5 days, now it "is starting," but went right back to "cranking but not wanting to start" - until I unplugged that fuel pump connector, at the top, the one with two wires, and plugged it back in.

So.. was that a freak thing, or.. should I get used to doing that?

** This car is a "workhorse." It gets used.. damn near 100 miles a day, sometimes. And the other driver can't get as down and dirty with this stuff as I, do. I need to get it back to RELIABLE starting...

ejv8s10

IMO your fuel pump is failing and needs to be replaced.

The other possibility is a bad (or loose) wiring connection where you checked the plug.

lostforawhile

he's not actually reading this thread, we told him how to access the fuel pump, yet is surprised that it's UNDER the back seat, which we clearly told him, he paid someone to diagnose a problem he was told exactly how to diagnose, he paid 85 dollars for a new main relay, when most likely re soldering the connections would have fixed it, and that was explained

W95civicEXcoupe

HI there, well, you are correct that there have been some internet connectivity issues in this matter. I do not exactly yet have internet access where I moved. This leaves me with accessing this forum through public WiFi hotspots, and trusting the diagnostic advice of the person that does this day in and day out while I am at work.

I would very much love to have the ability to: 1. Have a soldering iron. (At this point, it would be an expense, and my focus is somewhat limited.) 2. Then have the time to apply it. 3. Then have the time to test it, etc. I work a lot and .. transportation is somewhat challenging for my situation.

Now, to all those who say, "Why am I telling you all this." Well.. It is because I am, in fact, interested in the causes of why this happened, and how to remedy it. The mechanic ultimately basically charged me $15 for the labor that he did. Something about how it WAS loose wiring, and the relay was "getting hot" or not making a good connection. I know I had to pull the plug out (where it connects to the fuel pump,) and put it back in.. this morning, for the car to start.

I am testing to see if it continues starting, and so far it is doing that just fine.

So. Now that I have a CHANCE to check this thread, (I also have no phone service, so when I posted that I was "posting from mobile" I also cannot do that right now..) It is not that "I am not actually reading this thread," it is more like "This is how it is for me, and I want to coordinate with my fellow Honda brethren, so that I may gather the knowledge, if my situation changes." (What to look for if it happens again. What to do, if the mechanic suddenly fails me, or dies, or gets locked up, or fired, etc. He IS right down the street from my job. Azevedo Motorsports in Linden, NJ. My car is "badged" with the name of that shop, too. Dominic.)

I am catching up with it now. Posting on my break is all I could manage, thus far. Also, the postings after work, etc. I work 6 days a week and had to put back in girlfriend's gas-guzzler Ford Expedition that needs a tune-up lol.

I know how to change spark plugs. I also have the "spark plug socket," extension, 1/2" drive ratchet, and general know-how as to how to do it. (Cold engine, 1/4 turn past snug, etc etc.)

Let's just say, that.. as my first Honda, I was genuinely scared that a fuel tank would have to be dropped, like TomCat39 referenced on a Cavalier, or, another fine Chevy piece of crap, an S-10 Blazer, which I also have, and have had to have a fuel tank dropped on before.

I had an access door in the HATCH (translate: TRUNK if comparing to) a 1989 Nissan 240SX, which I also had.

WE looked in the trunk first, THEN popped the backseat, and.. voila. Testing then began.

1. I did not pay for ANY diagnosis. It was done for free. Out of the goodness of Dominic's heart. Stayed past a 10-hour day to do it, too.
2. He had a test light. I did not. We walked out to the car with: The test light. It did it's thing.

Power to the fuel pump was determined to be the problem, after moving the wire made the car start right up. I was pleasantly surprised.

Much better than a dead fuel pump on an S-10. Or Cavalier.

That HAS to be the thing that said "Mitsuba" on it, which was precariously hanging from the fuse area.

Cost breakdown:

1. I paid $100.
2. $85 was likely shop price, for that relay.
3. That means $15, for the install of it, as well as diagnosis.

If your point is that I MAY not have had to buy that, then I accept that. However, I will say that, a new part gives me peace of mind, on a car with unknown history. That may be stupid, but, this car gets used.. so much. 1000+ miles a week.

I hope this is an OK update. This thread is going very very well, IMHO.

As to "fuel pump failing".. If I could, i would check for fuel pressure, correct? Maybe to determine? ... (I am not stupid, you just need to understand why I am like this, and the present hit-and-run posting style. It is genuine. I already know some like to plot to kill those that do this. This is why I go to a great length to explain.)

Everything on this thread seems good so far, and I accept it.

W95civicEXcoupe

I would agree. Testing seemed to indicate loose connections, as well as a power issue to fuel pump.

The backseat remains not put back in place, so that I/we can be satisfied that the matter is now wired correctly.

Having a Chevrolet S-10 Blazer (1993,) this is why I was having heart attacks and panicking about prices until I saw the access door. More like a Nissan than a Chevrolet! And this is good.

**I am catching up on my reading of what has been posted since I last came on, at this time.