my build thread
05-31-2014, 08:41 PM
#1
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my build thread
Allrighty then, I'm editing this to clear up confusion and to try and actually get solid information together:
my car is a 95 civic DX, it has a d15b7 engine which cracked an exhaust valve prompting new valves and gaskets in the cylinder head. The short block is in good shape, it holds oil in the cylinders (doesn't leak thru the rings), and it had minimal leakage.
I have read extensively about a common build called "d15beast7" which usually involves an d16a6 (older engine) or aftermarket camshaft. It also involves using either the d16z6 manifolds or again aftermarket parts.
that build usually nets a pretty large increase in MPG, bringing the engine from 30s to 50s! Alot of people seem to think making the manifolds and ports bigger, and using a more aggressive camshaft will only lower MPG but alot of people disagree with that.
if anyone is actually well versed or formally educated in fluid dynamics, air/exhaust velocity, or A:F ratios, I'd like to see what you have to say at this point. I am not an engineer, I'm a business student so that stuff isn't something I know alot about.
my car is a 95 civic DX, it has a d15b7 engine which cracked an exhaust valve prompting new valves and gaskets in the cylinder head. The short block is in good shape, it holds oil in the cylinders (doesn't leak thru the rings), and it had minimal leakage.
I have read extensively about a common build called "d15beast7" which usually involves an d16a6 (older engine) or aftermarket camshaft. It also involves using either the d16z6 manifolds or again aftermarket parts.
that build usually nets a pretty large increase in MPG, bringing the engine from 30s to 50s! Alot of people seem to think making the manifolds and ports bigger, and using a more aggressive camshaft will only lower MPG but alot of people disagree with that.
if anyone is actually well versed or formally educated in fluid dynamics, air/exhaust velocity, or A:F ratios, I'd like to see what you have to say at this point. I am not an engineer, I'm a business student so that stuff isn't something I know alot about.
Last edited by shotoutacc0rd; 06-08-2014 at 03:27 PM.
05-31-2014, 08:49 PM
#2
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Re: my build thread
The first thing I did was test the compression then the leakage, the compression was stupid high. Over 230. Turns out that there was over 1/8th inch of carbon built up on most of the valves and a bit on the pistons too. Along with that cracked exhaust valve on cyl 3.
then I tested the leakage, and the good cylinders were all lower than 10% and I couldn't figure out where it was leaking, no bubble from the radiator, no windy noise from the exhaust ports or intake manifold, no sound from the oil dipstick tube either.
cyl 3 was the exception, with leakage thru the exhaust port. Then I built a blocking plate for the exhaust port, used a paper (literally note book paper) gasket. This lowered the leakage from 100% to about 15-20%.
then I tested the leakage, and the good cylinders were all lower than 10% and I couldn't figure out where it was leaking, no bubble from the radiator, no windy noise from the exhaust ports or intake manifold, no sound from the oil dipstick tube either.
cyl 3 was the exception, with leakage thru the exhaust port. Then I built a blocking plate for the exhaust port, used a paper (literally note book paper) gasket. This lowered the leakage from 100% to about 15-20%.
Last edited by shotoutacc0rd; 06-08-2014 at 03:34 PM.
05-31-2014, 10:07 PM
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Re: my build thread
I like the shiny, I dont like the rough bits I found. Oh well it'l work, prolly just wont last forever
Last edited by shotoutacc0rd; 06-04-2014 at 02:44 PM. Reason: fixing pictures
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06-03-2014, 03:01 PM
#8
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Re: my build thread
if anyone has any advice I'm eager to hear it
06-03-2014, 05:29 PM
#9
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Re: my build thread
So, I typed this up and then read over it and I realized I sound like a huge *******. Please don't take it that way.
original:
Dude, I'm all about the fuel economy BUT you need to make big gains to justify putting money into the mods. Do all the labor you can like you outlined in your first post. That can be fun and it doesn't cost anything but your time. But seriously think about putting money into the car in order to increase MPGs and then save money.
Driving differently, alone, can make ~15% difference.
Say you drive 20,000 miles/year at an average of 40 Miles/gallon. A 15% increase would mean you're now getting 46 Miles / Gallon.
Assuming gas had a constant average of $4.00 per gallon for two years.
The first year at 40 MPG would have cost 20,000 [miles / year] * 1 [Year] * / (40 [Miles /Gallon] ) * $4.00 [1/Gallon] = $2,000.00
Now you're getting 46 MPG. The same equation results in a cost of $1,739.13
A savings of 2000 - 1739.13 = $260.87
That means, in order to justify the cost of the parts you put on the car in order to increase your MPG, you can only spend a MAX of $260.87 in that year. And, you're not going to get much with that.
That's why highly modified hypermiller cars look like ****. They use cheap materials like coroplast instead of taking the time and spending the money to make stuff from fiberglass. I've gotten 50 MPGs out of a stock 95 CX when I was a stupid kid but I was driving 55 - 60 MPH and drafting a semi the whole time. It was dumb.
Honestly, drive differently. I won't promote the techniques of hyper miler forums because I'm not sure how legal they are but, I've got about 3 years worth of data in an Excel file that demonstrates results.
original:
Dude, I'm all about the fuel economy BUT you need to make big gains to justify putting money into the mods. Do all the labor you can like you outlined in your first post. That can be fun and it doesn't cost anything but your time. But seriously think about putting money into the car in order to increase MPGs and then save money.
Driving differently, alone, can make ~15% difference.
Say you drive 20,000 miles/year at an average of 40 Miles/gallon. A 15% increase would mean you're now getting 46 Miles / Gallon.
Assuming gas had a constant average of $4.00 per gallon for two years.
The first year at 40 MPG would have cost 20,000 [miles / year] * 1 [Year] * / (40 [Miles /Gallon] ) * $4.00 [1/Gallon] = $2,000.00
Now you're getting 46 MPG. The same equation results in a cost of $1,739.13
A savings of 2000 - 1739.13 = $260.87
That means, in order to justify the cost of the parts you put on the car in order to increase your MPG, you can only spend a MAX of $260.87 in that year. And, you're not going to get much with that.
That's why highly modified hypermiller cars look like ****. They use cheap materials like coroplast instead of taking the time and spending the money to make stuff from fiberglass. I've gotten 50 MPGs out of a stock 95 CX when I was a stupid kid but I was driving 55 - 60 MPH and drafting a semi the whole time. It was dumb.
Honestly, drive differently. I won't promote the techniques of hyper miler forums because I'm not sure how legal they are but, I've got about 3 years worth of data in an Excel file that demonstrates results.
06-03-2014, 05:32 PM
#10
talks to himself
Re: my build thread
All that being said.
Kammbacks and frontal air dams are probably the only two "cheap" mods you can do that might make a difference. I wouldn't trust a warm air intake. Lowering costs too much. Low resistance tires cost too much. Lighter wheels cost too much. Replacing glass with plastic costs too much and I'm pretty sure isn't legal for a street car. Gutted interiors suck on the highway for commuter cars.
Kammbacks and frontal air dams are probably the only two "cheap" mods you can do that might make a difference. I wouldn't trust a warm air intake. Lowering costs too much. Low resistance tires cost too much. Lighter wheels cost too much. Replacing glass with plastic costs too much and I'm pretty sure isn't legal for a street car. Gutted interiors suck on the highway for commuter cars.
06-03-2014, 06:19 PM
#12
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Re: my build thread
I'm not really interested in turbocharging this engine.
and @ adam I do some of the hypermiling stuff as it is, slowing down early so I dont have to come to a complete stop is probably my favorite thing.
my only problem is that I'm too heavy on the throttle most of the time, but I figure if I change that one thing I could probably get really good mpg
and @ adam I do some of the hypermiling stuff as it is, slowing down early so I dont have to come to a complete stop is probably my favorite thing.
my only problem is that I'm too heavy on the throttle most of the time, but I figure if I change that one thing I could probably get really good mpg
06-03-2014, 06:30 PM
#14
talks to himself
Re: my build thread
I'm not really interested in turbocharging this engine.
and @ adam I do some of the hypermiling stuff as it is, slowing down early so I dont have to come to a complete stop is probably my favorite thing.
my only problem is that I'm too heavy on the throttle most of the time, but I figure if I change that one thing I could probably get really good mpg
and @ adam I do some of the hypermiling stuff as it is, slowing down early so I dont have to come to a complete stop is probably my favorite thing.
my only problem is that I'm too heavy on the throttle most of the time, but I figure if I change that one thing I could probably get really good mpg
aybe get a Scan Gauge? I've got one. It helps. Hyper miler sites list the typical mods that get the most bang for the buck. Scan gauge and kammbacks are up there.
A while back someone was doing an mpguino. Not sure if he finished.
06-03-2014, 07:30 PM
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Re: my build thread
Now I have a second problem:
a valve got stuck! Dunno if its bent, or if the douches at the machine shop I brought the head to fucked up measuring the guide.
how the fuckering do I get this bitch out? I pulled on it really really hard and It won't budge. Slid in a little tight, got the lil valley thru the guide and out the other side, and now it wont budge.
a valve got stuck! Dunno if its bent, or if the douches at the machine shop I brought the head to fucked up measuring the guide.
how the fuckering do I get this bitch out? I pulled on it really really hard and It won't budge. Slid in a little tight, got the lil valley thru the guide and out the other side, and now it wont budge.
Last edited by shotoutacc0rd; 06-04-2014 at 02:47 PM.
06-03-2014, 09:59 PM
#17
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Re: my build thread
gripped the valve's head with a channel lock 440, pulled and twisted for a few minutes and it slid out.
the valve doesn't even seem bent after doing that to it, but I did chew up the valve a little. I'm gonna see if I can warrantee it, then buy a new guide and throw the old guide thru the window of the machine shop.
06-04-2014, 09:29 AM
#19
Re: my build thread
Adam is completely correct... most engine modifications that improve fuel economy have a hard time paying for themselves. If your reasons for "VTEC-E" tier economy are for saving money, then your attention would be better focused on modifying driving behavior and probably some relatively simple aero mods. If you're looking to save fuel to save the planet... then the sky's the limit. 
I would highly recommend an MPGuino, which is available preassembled (though it does need some minor knowledge for installation). It works with OBDI and II engines (and is the only mpg computer option for OBDI). A Scangauge is very nice for OBDII, but is much more expensive.
Weight reduction will have minimal impact on fuel economy. Use the 13" wheels if they're free. Consider lrr tires when it is time to replace your current ones, but it's *not* worth it to ditch good tires for "green" ones if you have plenty of tread left.
A front air dam can make an improvement, but a belly pan would have more impact and look better (depending on your taste).
Learn to drive efficiently, and memorize your BSFC map. Heck, a vacuum gauge would be a great idea.
Or swap in a 3-stage VTEC.
I would highly recommend an MPGuino, which is available preassembled (though it does need some minor knowledge for installation). It works with OBDI and II engines (and is the only mpg computer option for OBDI). A Scangauge is very nice for OBDII, but is much more expensive.
Weight reduction will have minimal impact on fuel economy. Use the 13" wheels if they're free. Consider lrr tires when it is time to replace your current ones, but it's *not* worth it to ditch good tires for "green" ones if you have plenty of tread left.
A front air dam can make an improvement, but a belly pan would have more impact and look better (depending on your taste).
Learn to drive efficiently, and memorize your BSFC map. Heck, a vacuum gauge would be a great idea.
Or swap in a 3-stage VTEC.
Last edited by slogfilet; 06-04-2014 at 09:29 AM. Reason: hella spella
06-04-2014, 10:26 AM
#20
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Re: my build thread
Adam is completely correct... most engine modifications that improve fuel economy have a hard time paying for themselves. If your reasons for "VTEC-E" tier economy are for saving money, then your attention would be better focused on modifying driving behavior and probably some relatively simple aero mods. If you're looking to save fuel to save the planet... then the sky's the limit.
I would highly recommend an MPGuino, which is available preassembled (though it does need some minor knowledge for installation). It works with OBDI and II engines (and is the only mpg computer option for OBDI). A Scangauge is very nice for OBDII, but is much more expensive.
Weight reduction will have minimal impact on fuel economy. Use the 13" wheels if they're free. Consider lrr tires when it is time to replace your current ones, but it's *not* worth it to ditch good tires for "green" ones if you have plenty of tread left.
A front air dam can make an improvement, but a belly pan would have more impact and look better (depending on your taste).
Learn to drive efficiently, and memorize your BSFC map. Heck, a vacuum gauge would be a great idea.
Or swap in a 3-stage VTEC.
I would highly recommend an MPGuino, which is available preassembled (though it does need some minor knowledge for installation). It works with OBDI and II engines (and is the only mpg computer option for OBDI). A Scangauge is very nice for OBDII, but is much more expensive.
Weight reduction will have minimal impact on fuel economy. Use the 13" wheels if they're free. Consider lrr tires when it is time to replace your current ones, but it's *not* worth it to ditch good tires for "green" ones if you have plenty of tread left.
A front air dam can make an improvement, but a belly pan would have more impact and look better (depending on your taste).
Learn to drive efficiently, and memorize your BSFC map. Heck, a vacuum gauge would be a great idea.
Or swap in a 3-stage VTEC.
do u know a good retailer for one? I found a Finnish guy selling them but that's it
06-04-2014, 12:47 PM
#23
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06-04-2014, 01:06 PM
#24
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Re: my build thread
how is 260-$300 even worth the hassle of a super long geared trans and little to no passing ability ?. want more mpg get a new car...you're not doing anything new there's a reason ppl don't waste their time with stuff like this.