Motor Smoking After Rebuild. Any Ideas?
12-22-2003, 08:10 AM
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Motor Smoking After Rebuild. Any Ideas?
okay, just rebuilt a b16a about two weeks ago. jdm sir2 block with usdm b16a2 head. brand new everything in the block and the valves and valve seals were replaced in the head at the machine shop. timing is straight and valves were adjusted. running a ctr intake cam and b16 exhaust cam with i/h/e and fpr. the car has 600 miles on it since the rebuild and it's smoking.
thought it would be normal for a little smoking at first until the seal were broken in and the rings were seated but starting to wonder now cause we've had to add 2 quarts of oil before the 500 mile oil change. i've searched and every thread either says rings or pcv valve. i installed the rings according to the helms manual so that can't be it. if it's not the pcv valve, what else could it be? i'd hate to have to tear down this motor again. someone help me out!
thought it would be normal for a little smoking at first until the seal were broken in and the rings were seated but starting to wonder now cause we've had to add 2 quarts of oil before the 500 mile oil change. i've searched and every thread either says rings or pcv valve. i installed the rings according to the helms manual so that can't be it. if it's not the pcv valve, what else could it be? i'd hate to have to tear down this motor again. someone help me out!
12-22-2003, 08:20 AM
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Re: Motor Smoking After Rebuild. Any Ideas? (vtecb20coupe)
you may have to take the motor down. And just reck all the seals, and rings. or you can take it to a mechnic and explain it to him and have him figure it out.
12-22-2003, 08:22 AM
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Re: Motor Smoking After Rebuild. Any Ideas? (sohcvtec1995)
yea, before you take it to a mechanic and get charged an arm and a leg, check the obvious stuff first... no head gasket leaking oil... man thats so defeating to have something like that happend when your totally finished w/ a project'
12-22-2003, 08:29 AM
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Re: Motor Smoking After Rebuild. Any Ideas? (kKdARIAN)
nope, the head gasket isn't leaking. oil pan not leaking, valve cover gasket not leaking either. i 've been talking to a honda mechanic and he's told me to replace the pcv valve. if that doesn't work, any other ideas?
12-22-2003, 09:33 AM
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Re: (snoochtodanooch)
right now, using 10w30 regular, not synthetic. changed the oil after the first 50 miles, then 100, now 500. then, it'll be 1000 miles and so forth.
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12-22-2003, 10:34 AM
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Re: Motor Smoking After Rebuild. Any Ideas? (chirp3rd)
Maybe I missed it, but what pistons and rings are you running?
I hate to be the topic's ***, but I seriously doubt the rings will miraculously seat all of the sudden.
Did you have the block checked for roundness? Did you have the block bored? Honed?
I just rebuilt a high miled D16A6 and used all new O.E parts including pistons, rings, etc. and it has never smoked at all - not even upon initial start up.
I think you've got a serious problem. Either you did not gap the rings correctly, or the block itself has some cylinders out of round bro.
My advice is tear it down, take it to a GOOD maching shop and have the block checked and bored and honed if need be, and that also means you'd be buying new .025 over pistons and rings too.
I hate to be the topic's ***, but I seriously doubt the rings will miraculously seat all of the sudden.
Did you have the block checked for roundness? Did you have the block bored? Honed?
I just rebuilt a high miled D16A6 and used all new O.E parts including pistons, rings, etc. and it has never smoked at all - not even upon initial start up.
I think you've got a serious problem. Either you did not gap the rings correctly, or the block itself has some cylinders out of round bro.
My advice is tear it down, take it to a GOOD maching shop and have the block checked and bored and honed if need be, and that also means you'd be buying new .025 over pistons and rings too.
12-22-2003, 10:37 AM
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Re: Motor Smoking After Rebuild. Any Ideas? (B18C5-EH2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I think you've got a serious problem. Either you did not gap the rings correctly, or the block itself has some cylinders out of round bro.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have seen a couple motors do this and it was bad ring spacing, they were done to OEM specs, not rebuild specs.
I think you've got a serious problem. Either you did not gap the rings correctly, or the block itself has some cylinders out of round bro.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have seen a couple motors do this and it was bad ring spacing, they were done to OEM specs, not rebuild specs.
12-22-2003, 10:37 AM
#11
Former Moderator
Re: Motor Smoking After Rebuild. Any Ideas? (B18C5-EH2)
Couple of quick Qs:
Do you have any sparkplugs that are wet?
If so then you might have a problem on one or more cylinders along the lines of a busted ring landing from installation, etc.
Building an engine isn't rocket science, but there are many areas that you can make mistakes and it's not uncommon for a rebuilt engine to smoke from the start if something's not right.
This is why I'm the # 1 fan of an O.E built engine such as the B18C5, B16B, etc. because the O.E honda build is impossible to beat IMO.
Do you have any sparkplugs that are wet?
If so then you might have a problem on one or more cylinders along the lines of a busted ring landing from installation, etc.
Building an engine isn't rocket science, but there are many areas that you can make mistakes and it's not uncommon for a rebuilt engine to smoke from the start if something's not right.
This is why I'm the # 1 fan of an O.E built engine such as the B18C5, B16B, etc. because the O.E honda build is impossible to beat IMO.
12-22-2003, 10:45 AM
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Re: Motor Smoking After Rebuild. Any Ideas? (B18C5-EH2)
I'd start by pulling the plugs and see if they are covered in oil. if they are than the sparkplug seals are leaking. oil could be running down the plugs.
hopefully this helps.
hopefully this helps.
12-22-2003, 11:07 AM
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Re: Motor Smoking After Rebuild. Any Ideas? (B18C5-EH2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Maybe I missed it, but what pistons and rings are you running?
I hate to be the topic's ***, but I seriously doubt the rings will miraculously seat all of the sudden.
Did you have the block checked for roundness? Did you have the block bored? Honed?
I just rebuilt a high miled D16A6 and used all new O.E parts including pistons, rings, etc. and it has never smoked at all - not even upon initial start up.
I think you've got a serious problem. Either you did not gap the rings correctly, or the block itself has some cylinders out of round bro.
My advice is tear it down, take it to a GOOD maching shop and have the block checked and bored and honed if need be, and that also means you'd be buying new .025 over pistons and rings too.</TD></TR></TABLE>
ok, it's a jdm sir2 block. so, we stuck with the p30 pistons with a new set of oem pr3 rings. but no, the block was not sent out to the machine shop and we did not bore it over. the cylinders were however honed. i swear i followed the helms pics and instructions.
I hate to be the topic's ***, but I seriously doubt the rings will miraculously seat all of the sudden.
Did you have the block checked for roundness? Did you have the block bored? Honed?
I just rebuilt a high miled D16A6 and used all new O.E parts including pistons, rings, etc. and it has never smoked at all - not even upon initial start up.
I think you've got a serious problem. Either you did not gap the rings correctly, or the block itself has some cylinders out of round bro.
My advice is tear it down, take it to a GOOD maching shop and have the block checked and bored and honed if need be, and that also means you'd be buying new .025 over pistons and rings too.</TD></TR></TABLE>
ok, it's a jdm sir2 block. so, we stuck with the p30 pistons with a new set of oem pr3 rings. but no, the block was not sent out to the machine shop and we did not bore it over. the cylinders were however honed. i swear i followed the helms pics and instructions.
12-22-2003, 11:08 AM
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Re: Motor Smoking After Rebuild. Any Ideas? (1 point 6)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1 point 6 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I have seen a couple motors do this and it was bad ring spacing, they were done to OEM specs, not rebuild specs.</TD></TR></TABLE>
ok, what do you mean rebuild specs? what is the difference?
I have seen a couple motors do this and it was bad ring spacing, they were done to OEM specs, not rebuild specs.</TD></TR></TABLE>
ok, what do you mean rebuild specs? what is the difference?
12-22-2003, 11:12 AM
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Re: Motor Smoking After Rebuild. Any Ideas? (vtecb20coupe)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtecb20coupe »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
ok, it's a jdm sir2 block. so, we stuck with the p30 pistons with a new set of oem pr3 rings. but no, the block was not sent out to the machine shop and we did not bore it over. the cylinders were however honed. i swear i followed the helms pics and instructions.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well you can follow the Helms all day, but if the block's cylinders are not perfectly round you're not doing any good by simply honing them.
What kind of shape was the engine prior to tear down and rebuild, or was it something you purchased with an unknown history?
ok, it's a jdm sir2 block. so, we stuck with the p30 pistons with a new set of oem pr3 rings. but no, the block was not sent out to the machine shop and we did not bore it over. the cylinders were however honed. i swear i followed the helms pics and instructions.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well you can follow the Helms all day, but if the block's cylinders are not perfectly round you're not doing any good by simply honing them.
What kind of shape was the engine prior to tear down and rebuild, or was it something you purchased with an unknown history?
12-22-2003, 11:12 AM
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Re: Motor Smoking After Rebuild. Any Ideas? (B18C5-EH2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Couple of quick Qs:
Do you have any sparkplugs that are wet?
If so then you might have a problem on one or more cylinders along the lines of a busted ring landing from installation, etc.
Building an engine isn't rocket science, but there are many areas that you can make mistakes and it's not uncommon for a rebuilt engine to smoke from the start if something's not right.
This is why I'm the # 1 fan of an O.E built engine such as the B18C5, B16B, etc. because the O.E honda build is impossible to beat IMO.</TD></TR></TABLE>
hmm...i will need to check the plugs today and see if there is any oil on the pistons too.
Do you have any sparkplugs that are wet?
If so then you might have a problem on one or more cylinders along the lines of a busted ring landing from installation, etc.
Building an engine isn't rocket science, but there are many areas that you can make mistakes and it's not uncommon for a rebuilt engine to smoke from the start if something's not right.
This is why I'm the # 1 fan of an O.E built engine such as the B18C5, B16B, etc. because the O.E honda build is impossible to beat IMO.</TD></TR></TABLE>
hmm...i will need to check the plugs today and see if there is any oil on the pistons too.
12-22-2003, 11:14 AM
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Re: (LIFER)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LIFER »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">rings probably need to seat (takes a little time)</TD></TR></TABLE>
Doesn't take 600 miles for rings to seat.
Doesn't take 600 miles for rings to seat.
12-22-2003, 11:15 AM
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Re: Motor Smoking After Rebuild. Any Ideas? (B18C5-EH2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Well you can follow the Helms all day, but if the block's cylinders are not perfectly round you're not doing any good by simply honing them.
What kind of shape was the engine prior to tear down and rebuild, or was it something you purchased with an unknown history?</TD></TR></TABLE>
the longblock was in good shape when it was purchased. the head came out fine and this block appeared to be fine. if i were to remove the head, is there anything i can use to measure the roundness accurately of the cylinders?
Well you can follow the Helms all day, but if the block's cylinders are not perfectly round you're not doing any good by simply honing them.
What kind of shape was the engine prior to tear down and rebuild, or was it something you purchased with an unknown history?</TD></TR></TABLE>
the longblock was in good shape when it was purchased. the head came out fine and this block appeared to be fine. if i were to remove the head, is there anything i can use to measure the roundness accurately of the cylinders?
12-22-2003, 11:16 AM
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Re: (R_EG)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by R_EG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Doesn't take 600 miles for rings to seat.</TD></TR></TABLE>
now, i've been told different things on how long it takes the rings to completely seal themselves. i've heard anywhere from 50 miles to 500 miles to a few thousand miles.
Doesn't take 600 miles for rings to seat.</TD></TR></TABLE>
now, i've been told different things on how long it takes the rings to completely seal themselves. i've heard anywhere from 50 miles to 500 miles to a few thousand miles.
12-22-2003, 11:21 AM
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Re: (vtecb20coupe)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtecb20coupe »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
now, i've been told different things on how long it takes the rings to completely seal themselves. i've heard anywhere from 50 miles to 500 miles to a few thousand miles.</TD></TR></TABLE>
As far as how long it takes for rings to FULLY seat, that's debatable. Some say it's 500 miles, some say 1000 miles, some say more - tough call. I can tell you that if the engine is smoking and using oil like you're saying it is I seriosuly doubt that it's a matter of the rings not being fully seated.
I gave my D16A6 1000 miles of easy stop and go driving before I gave it hell. At no point has it ever smoked. I have yet to change the oil (I'm a few hundred miles past 1000) but i'm sure everything is fine.
I hate to be the bearer of bad new like this, but again I'm thinking a full tear down and rebuild with the cylinders checked and possibly bored is your only correct fix. It's tough to admit that there is a problem, and surely tearing it all back down and rebuilding it sucks, but that's how it goes sometimes.
Good luck bro.
now, i've been told different things on how long it takes the rings to completely seal themselves. i've heard anywhere from 50 miles to 500 miles to a few thousand miles.</TD></TR></TABLE>
As far as how long it takes for rings to FULLY seat, that's debatable. Some say it's 500 miles, some say 1000 miles, some say more - tough call. I can tell you that if the engine is smoking and using oil like you're saying it is I seriosuly doubt that it's a matter of the rings not being fully seated.
I gave my D16A6 1000 miles of easy stop and go driving before I gave it hell. At no point has it ever smoked. I have yet to change the oil (I'm a few hundred miles past 1000) but i'm sure everything is fine.
I hate to be the bearer of bad new like this, but again I'm thinking a full tear down and rebuild with the cylinders checked and possibly bored is your only correct fix. It's tough to admit that there is a problem, and surely tearing it all back down and rebuilding it sucks, but that's how it goes sometimes.
Good luck bro.
12-22-2003, 12:23 PM
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Re: Motor Smoking After Rebuild. Any Ideas? (vtecb20coupe)
****, well since i keep getting different opinions. does anyone have a chart or diagram for the correct way to place the rings around the pistons?
12-22-2003, 12:30 PM
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Re: Motor Smoking After Rebuild. Any Ideas? (vtecb20coupe)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtecb20coupe »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">****, well since i keep getting different opinions. does anyone have a chart or diagram for the correct way to place the rings around the pistons?</TD></TR></TABLE>
If you specifically follow the Helms diagrams then the ring gap probably isn't the problem.
Again you're dealing with an unknown history block that wasn't checked for roundness.
There is also the possibility that you could have damaged a ring and/or piston upon installing the pistons into the block. Did the pistons go in without any troubles whatsoever? What type of ring compressor did you use?
If you specifically follow the Helms diagrams then the ring gap probably isn't the problem.
Again you're dealing with an unknown history block that wasn't checked for roundness.
There is also the possibility that you could have damaged a ring and/or piston upon installing the pistons into the block. Did the pistons go in without any troubles whatsoever? What type of ring compressor did you use?
12-22-2003, 12:37 PM
#23
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Re: Motor Smoking After Rebuild. Any Ideas? (B18C5-EH2)
Wait wait wait....
you said the block was not sent out....yet you said it was honed????
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not tell me you berry bushed it!
If you used the drill attachment to hone out a very well used block....then that's your problem right there also. Did you even check the piston to wall gap either??? Ring end gap??/ Etc.
I can put pistons in a fresh block all day with proper ring location....but if the clearances aren't within spec...I'm screwed.
you said the block was not sent out....yet you said it was honed????
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not tell me you berry bushed it!
If you used the drill attachment to hone out a very well used block....then that's your problem right there also. Did you even check the piston to wall gap either??? Ring end gap??/ Etc.
I can put pistons in a fresh block all day with proper ring location....but if the clearances aren't within spec...I'm screwed.
12-22-2003, 01:54 PM
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Re: Motor Smoking After Rebuild. Any Ideas? (vtecb20coupe)
here's a pic of the plugs. no oil though. so now what? i'll spray them with carb cleaner and retorque, start the motor till it gets warm and see what happens again.
