EFSi

cx, vx dx, si

94HybridEX

Most would tell you the VX, simply because it is the lightest. We would caution you to stay away from getting an SI because they are the heaviest.

B18C5-EH2

Okay, there's a kick-*** topic about this archived, but I could not remember the exact title of it.

Anyways, here's my take on it.

I had a 1992 Si hatch with a GS-R swap a few years back and it had all the usual i/h/e bolt-ons. I had 4 different friends all with GS-R swaps and only i/e and they would always beat me when we raced at stoplights and on the highway.

Why?

WEIGHT

The Si is too heavy because of a few reasons, but the biggest reason is that damned sunroof. Others will say "rear disc brakes add weight" but won't you swap those out anyways if you get a CX/VX/DX? The Si also has power mirrors, much more TAR on the floorpan for sound deadening, heavier 14'' steel wheels (which you'd swap anyways) cruise control, powersteering, etc. that all add your worst enemy:

WEIGHT

So I ended up getting a Type R swap in the car and finally got faster than my GS-R powered buddies in their CX/VX/DX Civics, but I wanted more.

I sold that Si after putting it back stock and bought what is IMO the BEST platform to build a hybrid on:

1992 CX (or VX)

The VX is rated lighter for really only one reason: the lighter 13'' alloy wheels - CX has steelies

ALL 1992 Civics are pre-wired for VTEC even if it's a CX or DX. VX and Si had VTEC, so of course those are pre-wired from 1992-1995. I don't give a **** what anybody else says - ALL 1992 Civics are pre-wired for VTEC.

The 1992 CX has only 2 small pieces of tar on the floorpan - one on each front floorboard. CX is at leats 200+lbs. lighter than it's Si brother.

The drawbacks to getting a CX/VX/DX are the smaller brakes and rear drums, and if you like a sunroof then I guess you'll miss that too, but in the end the overall car will be faster, stiffer, and brake better because of less weight.

You will spend less money to go faster when you're pulling less weight.

I would stay away from the 1994-1995 Civics. They had more tar and dual airbags, which adds weight. Even worse is the 1994-1995 Si with ABS. That porker of a car weighs 2450lbs. or more!

Also, if you like the coupe body then the DX coupe isn't a bad choice either. I personally don't like the coupe style as much as the hatch, but I will NOT lie and say the coupes are heavier always - the DX coupe is lighter than an Si hatch all day. The DX coupe weighs about the same as a DX hatch.

Why not a DX?

I really don't think there's a big difference in weight from the DX down to the CX/VX, but little things like more tar and side moldings (looks based) deter most people from them. Add the higher base cost because the book value is higher than the CX/VX and you see that a CX/VX is *usually* cheaper.

One last thing to consider:

How long are you going to be driving this car before you swap out the motor?

If you know you'll be stuck in this car for a while, then the CX/VX will SUCK. The CX has 70hp and shitty-tall gearing, so it is near dangerous when trying to pass or merge onto a freeway. Same with the VX. While it has 92hp, it's tranny keeps the car dangerously slow too.

The DX would be the BEST choice if you're stuck with it's stock motor for a while. You still have the lighter-than-Si body, but now you've got 102hp and slightly shorter gearing. These cars aern't too bad daily driving.

The Si would be the best choice though if you don't mind the extra weight. I got my old Si to pull 15.6 in the 1/4 mile on the stock motor only with an AEM intake and a Centerforce clutch - otherwise STOCK!. Car was even stock height. Only weight reduction was the removal of the spare tire.

The Si has 125hp and the closest gearing of the 1992-1995 hatches. Problem is that you might get halfway satisfied with it and prolong your wait for a swap - or worse you might try to get more power out of the stock D16Z6 that's in it and waste money on it rather than swap.

Well, I'm off to find that good link that details ALL of the differences between the various trims on the 1992-1995 hatches.

Hope that helps some...

B18C5-EH2

Sorry, but let me add few things more...

I nedd to include probably the most important aspect of this debate:

COST

Another good reason to get a 1992 CX is the price of them. I have at least 5 friends (myself as well) that bought 1992 CX hatches for $2,000 or UNDER! These are straight-bodied hatches with less than 200K miles on them. In a few cases (me included) the cars had 120K miles or so on them.

Book value on the CX will be less than all of the other cars because of its 70hp and lack of options overall.

I sold my 1992 Si in perfect stock condition with 150K miles for $5,000!

The Si still commands a higher price because of all the options and hp.

Insurance on the Si is higher too, while the CX is a good bit cheaper.

For the difference in cost from the Si down to the CX/VX/DX, you could put it towards the swap or make the car safer with a GS-R 4-wheel disc upgrade for $500 or so including the master cylinder, booster, and prop valve.

My new CX should be a much better car overall than my old Si. That hole in the roof compromises stiffness, and adds weight at the worst possible place being the top of the car. That adds body roll and decreases road holding.

I'll let you guys know how much quicker in the 1/4 mile the new CX is - the Si pulled 13.9@100.97 with stock B18C5 and had only i/e and ECU. This was at 2289lbs. New CX should be right about 2020lbs.

Later.

stevecockrill

Excellent post, I have to agree completely. However, and please don't take this as a criticism or flame, to call a Civic a "porker" is really a matter of relative issues. A Mustang, yes a porker, but anything under 2500 lbs (unless we're going for the CRX HF at like 1800!!) is going to give around the same performance. Again, not meant as a flame, but surely the little difference in weight we are talking about is going to equate to a difference in performance that will likely be insignificant once you factor in the driver skill, etc. For example, the CX saves you lets say 150 lbs, which means you can run 0.2 secs faster (numbers from out of my butt, so I am willing to concede I may be wrong here). Then you get a lousy start or something or your clutch doesn't bite. There goes that advantage.

At the end of the day, unless you are a serious track driver or something, I can't (in my opinion) justify having to drive around in a daily driver that offers base-model Civic comfort, convenience, etc even if its 0.2 seconds faster than a similar model.

Now I can't say I've compared all the models at first hand, but for me, since its my daily driver (and doing a 200 mile daily commute!!) I need a little bit of comfort. I have a del Sol, which may be a "porker" but it has nice performance and I like the car as it is (comfort and convenience). So basically its just a personal decision based on the driver's preference. I plan to take all the tar and **** out of my car, but replace it with a really high quality sound deadening like Brown Bread or something - lighter and better comfort (sound wise) but still not sacrificing my overall objective of a fast(ish) comfortable daily driver.

Ok, I think I've rambled on enough. I guess to sum up, you have to consider whether the lack of creature comforts, etc is worth that little performance edge. Does anyone know what all that stuff like cruise control, etc weighs? At the end of the day, has anyone taken a stock CX, VX, DX and Si and done a B series swap and then reweighed them?

Steve

Turbo Laser

Props on the posts guys

B18C5-EH2

FYI:

My 1992 Si weighed 2289lbs. with 1/4 tank of gas and a B18C5 swap with Rota 12lb. wheels at all corners.

My friend's 1992 CX with GS-R swap weighed in at 2060lbs. with Rotas on it as well.

Both cars were identical in terms of mods and full interior, etc. so the difference there was 249lbs.

249lbs. is a bigger dofference than one might think when the horsepower output ranges from 140-200whp.

249lbs. isn't **** of difference when you're talking detriot muscle and 250-400+whp, but we're talking torqueless Honda motors here

I was arguably the best driver of all my pals yet I could never make up any differences between my Si hatch and their CX/VX/DX hatches.

I am not just talking 1/4 mile times either. Think about having 100lbs. (this is an estimate for the sunroof glass, motor, tracks) at the highest point in the car. How would this affect the handling? When cornering you want the weight as LOW as possible. With a heavy-*** sunroof at the highest point on the vehicle you have decreased the lower center of gravity.

How about rigidy? How would a big-*** hole in the roof be as structurally stiff as a full roof?

I had an Si - a perfect bodied and painted Si - and I sold it because I was tired of less powerful lighter hatches running too closely to mine.

In the end Steve is correct in asking what comfort level you're comfortable with.

What about my Si do I miss? Nothing really. The sunroof is the only thing that you can't really add (stock like, not cut-out leaky) to the CX/VX/DX in terms of comfort.

I had already removed the cruise control and the power steering so i don't miss those.

What would be the most important aspect of comfort in the car? I'm thinking seats. For that you can add Del Sol or Integra seats for cheap, or any aftermarket seats you like

gsrvx

Hey B18C5-EH2,

My VX has A/C and the previous owner had a custom cruise control unit put on....do you think these two components add a considerable amount of weight?? Thanks.

-Rod

B18C5-EH2

The A/C is at least 50+lbs. with the A/C compressor, fan and condensor, lines, dryer bottle, and the under-dash evaperator core (which most people forget to remove when they remove the A/C)

The cruise probably doesn't weigh much over 10-15lbs. I'd guess.

shawnhayes

You still have to add one wire to the harness, the VTEC activation wire. (had to on my 1992 Civic CX for sure) Trivial to do, frankly, but you do have to add one. (as opposed to more for the later years)

Shawn

B18C5-EH2

MugenEG, would you care to add WHY the VX is the best? I'm easily persueded if only you could give me more details.

Is it the percieved lighter-than-VX-because-of-the-13-inch-alloys?

Is it the tach that only goes to 8000 for which will be replaced anyways?

I'm just ******* with you, but seriously why do you say the VX is best "hands down?"

tooqwik1

si is the best everything bolts and u have all the extra features just add a couple hop ups and it will make up for the weight and good driving also

Reid

All parts that will bolt into an 92-95 Si will bolt into any other 92-95 hatch. Adding the same "hop ups" in a lighter car will still result in a faster car.

blackDA

I had a DX now I drive an si. the si feels(and is) heavier, but as long as my car is peppy it will do for now. I really like having a sunroof, power steering, and cruise-even if it is heavier.

EFSi

thnx for all the replies. very informative info. i forgot to mention that im in canada, so there is only si from 92-93 and is there any difference btw the cx,vx candaian model compared to the US models?

B18C5-EH2

Did you even read any of the posts? Not flaming, but just curious.

How many "hop ups" will you need to add to overcome a 249lb. weight disadvantage on an Si hatchback?

I have had an Si and been walked by every other CX, VX, and DX even when they had less whp than me - does that not mean ****?

So what you're saying is that you can spend more money on "hop ups" and the other guy in his CX can't, so you'll be even then?

Not likely.

Sorry if this post seems harsh, but I tend to get slightly ill when people don't use as much logic as they should when they post. The person who posted the above quoted post makes it seem as though all the stuff will only bolt onto an Si hatch and no other, but in terms of engine swap, Integra suspension, etc. all the chassis will accept the same things.

Tell you what guys:

Get whatever the hell you want to, but I've been there in the Si and it sucked. The sunroof gets REAL old when the damn sunshade rattles when the roof is open and when the motor starts to burn up - not really cheap nor easy to replace.

All the other **** can be added, but why? Power steering? Why? Cruise? Understandable, but necessary? Power mirrors? Half the damn time they get stuck and you have to unjam them or adjust them all together with you HANDS anyways. A/C? Who said you can't have A/C in a CX/VX/DX? FYI NONE of the hatches came std. with A/C - not even the Si. I have seen numerous Si hatches with the factory A/C block-off button and condensor screen. A/C was a dealer-added option, which most cars recieved anyways here in Georgia

Anyways like I said you guys here in the Civic forum will be the first to know my impressions of my CX once it's done - as in how much faster it will be than my old Si

JKim0901

i say VX.......... only cuz i have one yea screw si they are too heavy. I had a dx before my vx...not much different from the vx but vx is better cuz there is no door molding.

B18C5-EH2

I like the lack of moldings on the CX/VX too. Looks cleaner IMO, but some cars look good with the black moldings too - ones with CF **** and black wheels look good with black side trim IMO.

hybridreams

Ah yes, I love my CX. Only woes I have on the CX:

1. No tilt steering wheel (I'm 5'4, just got Del Sol seats, wouldn't mind lowering it some)
2. No tach
3. Steelies
4. No rear windshield wiper (It gets surprisingly dirty fast)

Other than that I give it two

gsrvx

A piece of my molding fell off the other day...this is the front piece on the fender just before the side mirror. There's double sided tape and underneath two holes...very ugly. Thing that pisses me off is that someone must have picked it up and thrown it away or taken it for themselves. I know this because I got home (not driving)...and noticed my molding on the ground. So I stuck it back on...come out 2 hours later...no where to be found.

I'm thinking of ripping all the moldings off...but I don't want a bunch of holes around.

-Rod

Dynamix

Here's what I think. Unless you are going for all out race, who the f*ck cares about saving 200lbs? Honestly I rather have my Si than a CX because of the features you think are bad because they add extra weight, I think are good if you plan to drive around everyday. One thing I definately cannot live without in my daily driver is A/C. Here in NY during the winter is pretty f*ckin cold and I couldn't drive without heat on. And obviously in summer there is just some days that are too hot to withstand and a nice cold breeze definately helps, especially on days when you are stuck in traffic and you aren't moving so no breeze is comin in the car. Also disc breaks all around are good and they save you in costs from buying GSR breaks when you get a motor swap for your CX, VX, DX. If you buy one of those low model hatches and don't upgrade the breaks you have to be retarded because no way in hell will those breaks stop the car with a DOHC VTEC motor. So that right there is almost $1,000 cause you figure the break swap is like $500-600 plus labor unless you know how to install em yourself. Another thing I hate about the low model hatches is no power steering. I dunno about you, but I have driven a CX before, and unless you work out alot, you are gonna have a pretty hard time parallel parking that car or pulling out of tite spaces while going really slow. Now those 3 features are definately a must for me in daily driving, but the one feature I love but don't really need much is my sunroof. On nice summer days its the best thing in the world to have a sunroof. Another nice option, but thats not necessary is my cruise control. Some days I drive home really late nite and there are no cars on the highway, and cruise control comes in handy, I just slap it on and steer the whole way home without tiring my leg on a long trip. So anyway, my point is that there are more things to think about than just going fast, because unless its a race car you are building, your going to have a pretty gay time driving a CX as a daily driver. I hope you don't try to pimp a girl in a CX and one cold nite you are driving her home and you tell her you have no A/C, lol!!!! Build the right car for the right occassions. Don't buy a CX to knock off .2 secs off your quarter mile and suffer the rest of the time you are driving your car off the track. Anyway, build what suits you best. PEACE.

Cuong-nutz

Dynamix is right
get a car that suits your needs
if goin speed racer, listen to tom's (B18C5-EH2) comments
talking to him is like talking to a walking manual
haha

Mr. Thunderlips

yeah, tom is probably one, if not the most helpful person on this site...he has answered every question that was asked of him, and totally helped me make up my mind on which car to get...(not jocking guys, just giving respect where its due) now, only to get around that damn blue interior!

B18C5-EH2

Dynamix has some good points as well. Real quick though, you do know that the loss or never having had A/C doesn't mean you don't have heat wither, right? They are two totally separate things. It sounded like from your post when you said "trying to pimp a girl on a cold night and you don't have A/C" - just curious, not ripping.

Yes, it's true that you should build a car for your needs. I had a 1992 Si hatch since 1997 - that's 5 years of those "comforts" for which I did get some use out of them, but they get old.

Tilt wheel? I got a Teg column with tilt for my CX. $50

When you run a 195/50/15 or 205/50/15 power steering really isn't necessary in my opinion. That's just my opinion from having had an Si with P/S and then taking it out in favor of a DX rack

Of all the heaviest features on the Si, the worst is that sunroof. It adds the most weight and again to ME isn't really all that great. You can lube up the tracks, but it still gets jumpy. They tend to stcik after a while and they do rattle too. I had one and my fiancee' also has a 1992 Si hatch still, and hers rattles a bit too.

The feature I see that most people want is A/C. As stated before A/C can be added to any trim of Civic, and just because you find an Si doesn't mean it will have A/C.

I bought my CX in Florida and it still had the A/C block-off plate! This was in Ft. Lauderdale! This car is a 1992, so somebody went through 5 summers in south FLA with no A/C, and I do the same in Georgia summers too.

This doesn't mean that you can do it, but I am saying that there are people who survive w/o A/C

Again I'm rambling - I guess the bottom line is what Dynamix said. Build one that suits you best.

Trey

The VX is the best beacuse it's light like the CX but the interior is very close to the Si. It's black, has plush seats not plastic, two mirrors. Very nice indeed. Only thing it needs is rear disk brakes (and a swap). You can add a sunroof if you NEED one and it'll still be lighter than an Si.

Also, the Si hatch has no power windows or locks.

Anyone that thinks the Si is better can keep it and the CX/VX will hand you your a$$ everytime.......