MR_SI

I have researched both of these and have heard the pros and cons of both. I was just curious who has these setups and wanted to give any input about which is better. Again this is just an opinionated based post. Oh and to input what i have already, i have a 99 SI and just need more displacement for better numbers for boost.

fmrprojects

get a b20 block with rs itr pistons. same thing as you would build a LS block woth standard itr pistons. got a frind making 230hp with b20vtec with rs 84.5mm itr pistons

ColMustard

i would have to go b20 but if you want to boost or plan on making more then 230, then i suggest you get the block sleeved. since the b20 is more prone to cracking thanks to its individual sleeves

doood

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ColMustard &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i would have to go b20 but if you want to boost or plan on making more then 230, then i suggest you get the block sleeved. since the b20 is more prone to cracking thanks to its individual sleeves</TD></TR></TABLE>

b20 sleeves are one piece

crvtec's will obviously make more power because of it's bigger displacement. but if you dont build either right neither will last.

Eran

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<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ColMustard &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i would have to go b20 but if you want to boost or plan on making more then 230, then i suggest you get the block sleeved. since the b20 is more prone to cracking thanks to its individual sleeves</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, a B20 is more prone to cracking because it's a bored-out B18B. It has one-piece sleeves, and they're thin.

fmrprojects

omniman has like 80k plus on his b20vtec

doood

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<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fmrprojects &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">omniman has like 80k plus on his b20vtec</TD></TR></TABLE>

omni is the inventor of lsvtecs. i think he know's what he's doing.

smileycvc

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eran &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

No, a B20 is more prone to cracking because it's a bored-out B18B. It has one-piece sleeves, and they're thin.</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, a B20 is not a bored out b18. They are cast completly diffrently. The cylinders are all one piece in a B20 and they can flex and crack. If want a serious b20 build you need to sleeve the motor and get a really good tune.

mastersmite

the b18b and the b20 blocks are exactly the same except that the bore (b18 is 81mm while the b20 is 84mm) due to the larger bore, the sleeves are thinner. Boost is not recommended on the stock b20 block unless it is sleeved

MR_SI

either way i was planning on sleeving. A) its safer with more boost B) b20 cylinder walls are thin. just like everyone had stated. but thanks everyone for the input so far, keep it coming and if you want to post your setups with power being put down be my guest. all in put is welcome haha

doood

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mastersmite &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the b18b and the b20 blocks are exactly the same except that the bore (b18 is 81mm while the b20 is 84mm) due to the larger bore, the sleeves are thinner. Boost is not recommended on the stock b20 block unless it is sleeved</TD></TR></TABLE>

they are not exactly the same because b20 sleeves are one piece

smileycvc

^^Thank you. So that means that the b20 is not just a bored out b18 the sleeve design is completly diffrent.

93eg2james

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MR_SI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">either way i was planning on sleeving. A) its safer with more boost B) b20 cylinder walls are thin. just like everyone had stated. but thanks everyone for the input so far, keep it coming and if you want to post your setups with power being put down be my guest. all in put is welcome haha </TD></TR></TABLE>

very very very tired of hearing this. Yes the b20 cylinder walls are thinner, but with a stock b20 bottom end, thats not your main concern. Your main concern is the r/s ratio. With a r/s ratio of 1.38 (b20b) the b20 does not like to revv. It will do it, and will last for a while, but eventually you'll kill it. However, the life of the motor depends on how you treat it, and how it was built.

If you take your time to prep the entire motor, and make sure everything is assembeled the right way (no shortcuts), then you're in good shape. When I did mine everything went through the parts washer atleast once. I made a checklist of everything that needed to be done, and also had a helm right next to me for torque spects ect.

If you plan on your motor lasting a long period of time, then you have to take care of it. All maintenence must be done on time obviously, but you have to make sure you check the oil regularly. Also, you cant hit 8k rpm everyday. Thats will end up being the demise of your motor.

If you're planning to do this, I suggest you read a lot, be paitent, and dont take any shortcuts. Do EVERYTHING right. If you're not sure about something you did, stop and ask!

This is your homework. Read EVERYTHING CARFULLY! Heres your new bible. Pray to the honda gods

Heres some pics of my ish:

smileycvc

Or you could sleeve it and rev to 8k daily. That added piece of mind keeps me happy.

Syndacate

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by smileycvc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Or you could sleeve it and rev to 8k daily. That added piece of mind keeps me happy.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've heard (but do NOT know from experience) that the B20's have weak bottom ends (P/R/B) to begin with.

That would definitely be a factor - though I just heard that somewhere on H-T, as for the actual truthfulness of it I do not know nor claim to.

93eg2james

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by smileycvc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Or you could sleeve it and rev to 8k daily. That added piece of mind keeps me happy.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Okay, so you're telling me that if you sleeve the stock b20 block, and then put everything back into it, it will rev all day no problem? Try it and let me know how it works out for you.

Sleeving the block wont do much. I thought the same thing coming into this build, but the more I read the more I found that it wasnt the walls, it was the r/s ratio. If you want to rev the **** out of the motor, get some aftermarket internals. Do yourself a favor and research this setup rather then spreading misinformation. Yes the cylinderwalls are thinner then the b18, but they''ll hold up. The rods on the other hand... not so much

Honestly, if you want a really reliable 2L vtec motor, you should just buy the stroker kit for a gsr. This way you have the block girdle and all the extra oil jets and wont be cutting any corners. You'll end up with something like 1.9L of displacement.

smileycvc

Yeah they have a weak bottem end because of the sleeves if you fix that them you wont any problems. Other than the sleeves its just a B18. It runs the same bearings and same crank. It would be a good idea to hook up a Vtec oil and water pump.

93eg2james

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by smileycvc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah they have a weak bottem end because of the sleeves if you fix that them you wont any problems. Other than the sleeves its just a B18. It runs the same bearings and same crank. It would be a good idea to hook up a Vtec oil and water pump.</TD></TR></TABLE>

oh mylanta

fmrprojects

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93eg2james &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> oh mylanta</TD></TR></TABLE>

why wouldnt it work? care to explain. a sleeved b20 block is like having a sleeved LS or gsr block. LS and B20 have the same crank and rods

ecks_fourttwo

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fmrprojects &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

why wouldnt it work? care to explain. a sleeved b20 block is like having a sleeved LS or gsr block. LS and B20 have the same crank and rods</TD></TR></TABLE>

exactly. they have the same WEAK rods/bearings/bolts. so its not like having a sleeved gsr block.

i was running an lsv setup with all stock internals but only rev'd to 7.5, the first thing to go ended up being the timing belt. the motor ran for over 40k miles all motor, and another 30k after boosting, and its still running strong. i never took that motor past 7.5, besides, your probably not even going to make any more power reving any higher anyways.

MR_SI

this is very true. a b20 bottom end is no b16 and has to be built to rev that high. i mean its in an suv last i checked no one goes to 9k in an suv hell 8 is still really high. i appreciate the input. and there will be NO shortcuts taken. i plan to do everything with it right the first time so i dont have to fix my shortcuts later. in the end your shortcuts will show themselves always.

smileycvc

You all defininetly dont know how to build motors or your just talking out of your *** and have never even tried building a b20 or lsv. First off the crank and bearings are fine for a build. The LS bearings from Honda have been rated to 11,000 rpm before they fail. If you still want to be a vagina about it you can actually use GSR bearings in a B20 or LSV. As far as the crank goes a GSR crank isnt built and diffrently than a B20 crank they are just machined to diffrent specifications. I have a B20 with a stock crank and LS bearings that I rev to 8500 rpm all day with no problems. Stock LS rods are however weak you get them shootpeened or just buy some real rods and pistons so you can make power with your motor. To the OP at least you know you cant take shortcuts, but dont listen to most of these people because they have no idea what they are talking about.

doood

iTrader: (1)

the rods are not the weakpoint. the rod bolts are. they'll stretch and eventually become crap with high rpm's. replace them with arp bolts and have the rods resized if you want to use stock rods.

93eg2james

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by smileycvc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You all defininetly dont know how to build motors or your just talking out of your *** and have never even tried building a b20 or lsv. First off the crank and bearings are fine for a build. The LS bearings from Honda have been rated to 11,000 rpm before they fail. If you still want to be a vagina about it you can actually use GSR bearings in a B20 or LSV. As far as the crank goes a GSR crank isnt built any diffrently than a B20 crank they are just machined to diffrent specifications. I have a B20 with a stock crank and LS bearings that I rev to 8500 rpm all day with no problems. Stock LS rods are however weak you get them shootpeened or just buy some real rods and pistons so you can make power with your motor. To the OP at least you know you cant take shortcuts, but dont listen to most of these people because they have no idea what they are talking about. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm declaring shananagans on you!

Okay, first of all the crank, bearings, oil pump, and a few other things are different on a GSR. The LS crank has wider rod journals, longer stroke, and somewhat more narrow rod bearing contact yeilding a little more displacement. This is why people like lsv. Little more torque.

GSR has a nicer oil pump because it has more oil jets. GSR block also have a block girdle that ties the rod bearing together making them more reliable at high rpms.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by doood &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the rods are not the weakpoint. the rod bolts are. they'll stretch and eventually become crap with high rpm's. replace them with arp bolts and have the rods resized if you want to use stock rods.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Completely agreed. If you do replace them, have a machine shop do it. They will measure rod bolt stretch, and plastigauge all the bearings. Like you said, no shortcuts. But honestly, you dont need to. I know smileycvc said he revs is b20 to 8500 all day, but he either put a lot of money into the motor to make it last, is very very lucky, or is blowing smoke up you rear end. The stock redline of a CRV with a b20b is 6500. You can go to 7k all the time without sacrificing the reliability of the motor. 8000 once in a while is ok, but if you're redlining the car constantly, with a completly stock bottom end, you'll kill it. period.

Your call MR_SI. Do some more research, and be careful where you get info from.

smileycvc

^^^I already said almost everything you just put in that post.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by smileycvc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah they have a weak bottem end because of the sleeves if you fix that them you wont any problems. Other than the sleeves its just a B18. It runs the same bearings and same crank. It would be a good idea to hook up a Vtec oil and water pump.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I already told him to replace the oil pump.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by smileycvc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">. As far as the crank goes a GSR crank isnt built and diffrently than a B20 crank they are just machined to diffrent specifications. </TD></TR></TABLE>

There is the same thing you just said about the crank just shorter. When I said they werent built diffrently i meant they are cast the same way and made from the same material.