teamrpm2

mostly looking for reliability and power??? wat do u suggest

teamrpm2

OneOhNine27

Power maybe, reliability, Id say neither. I think there were reasons why the LS and the b20 weren't Vtec. I'd say GSR.

Good luck.

blackhbkid

all depends on how much you want to spend. I have seen b20vtec with light mods do 200hp or a little more. there is a pretty bad *** write up on here about how to make a reliable lsvtec or b20vtec just do more searching

94jdmeg6civic

honda my have not made it but my car is running great even after 6 years of hell

teamrpm2

nice 6 years wats ur setup and is it b20vtec or lsvtec

redrocket_ej1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by teamrpm2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">mostly looking for reliability and power??? wat do u suggest</TD></TR></TABLE>
Turbo LS..

teamrpm2

yup heard those are powerful builds but im looking for sum NA power

doood

iTrader: (1)

either one can be reliable and make power. it's all dependant on the build, tune and maintenance.

94jdmeg6civic

ls/v jdm p30 pistons etc etc etc lol

BlkCivicFromTeamMNR.com

b20 wall are thiner then the b18....Im not a big fan of ls/vtec nor b20/vtec builds so I would say GSR ur going to spend close to the same amount and wit a gsr u can rev higher or you could do Ls-T thats just me!!
but if u must go wit one or the other Ls/Vtec!! over b20/vtec

Flint707

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94jdmeg6civic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ls/v jdm p30 pistons etc etc etc lol </TD></TR></TABLE>
x2 and you can rev an lsv higher

94jdmeg6civic

i rev the **** out of my car 8.5k to 9k everyday but its not all oem the head has alot of work and the only thing stock is the piston block and rods

gettin it

It all depends bro. Research is your best bet. If you swap out the rod bolts and oil pump and water pump and swap the timing belt for your b20 vtec. You can rev higher also. I plan on a B20 vtec swap for my other hatch, and ive done the research too. Ls motor is 81 mm and b20 is 84mm.. Plus i had a lsv before too. NICE!! Good luck on your build and search.

Garage oNe mOnKeY

I like B20 if you like torque . My Ej is B20 vtec turbo stock motor on RC440cc , VAFC . (DynoJet) 331whp 284p torque 10 psi no problem six months strong freeway warrior......

BryanM.

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by OneOhNine27 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Power maybe, reliability, Id say neither. I think there were reasons why the LS and the b20 weren't Vtec. I'd say GSR.

Good luck.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is almost EXACTLY like the other thread you made teamrpm2. Here ^ is your best answer.

/thread

.PLUMMM

Same thread...everyday. Just search and make up your own mind dude

ol'skool ferio

id say ls vtec just because ive seen the power they can put out and i must say they are pretty impressive. i havent really seen a b20vtec impress me except for the white eg 4dr on youtube. i guess i just like ls vtec more. anyway good luck with whatever u go with

Syndacate

This 100% depends on your goals for the motor.

A stock B20 block with a B16 head on it is a COMPLETE waste.

Why? Simply put, the B20 has flow set up for low end torque, while the B16/GSR has a head set up for high end HP output - and low torque.

If you're going to build the B20 block it's a totally different ball game as you'd be changing the compression (higher for motor, lower to compensate for added CR during boost).

If you don't plan on building the block go with the LS - it'll make more power, higher, and can deal with the revs better than a B20 can. Also, it's designed to flow at larger RPM where the B20 isn't.

Simply put, decision process between LS/V and B20/V:
If to build: B20/V
If not to build: LS/V

BTW: Don't let anybody bullshit you about cylinder walls in the B20 being weak and all that other happy horseshit about B20's having weak bottom ends, etc. etc. The motor itself is completely fine, it comes from the idiot ricer fan-boys that by them, slap a B16 head on it, and pin it to 8000 RPM - then come to H-T wondering why they have rods popping out of the bock and complaining that the B20 sucks.

Know that the B20 is a torque motor, it is NOT made to make high RPM - neither is the LS for that matter but it can make more (hence a higher redline). Also since it's setup for more HP than a torque motor (whereas the B20 is a light SUV therefore made for more low end torque than high end HP) it would be better suited with any VTEC head you decide to pop on there since they're all made for a higher RPM/less torque/more RPM combo.

People say that reliability + power for an LS/V isn't a good idea. It really doesn't matter - it depends on how it's built.

If you build it the right way - the LS/V can hold onto its native redline, and likewise for the B20/V. The issues start when you're on stock block internals and think that magically because it has a VTEC head sometimes the bottom end can withstand more RPM. So: If you keep the redline where it is on the BLOCK'S redline (not the head's), it'll be a perfectly reliable daily car - though the amount of power you'll gain over the stock LS/B20 for the amount of money you'll need to put it on there almost makes it not worth it unless you build, that's another point you should note. You won't pick up much power on stock internals w/ just a VTEC head slapped on. Obviously you gain a little more b/c of the cams, head flow, and intake manifold, but the difference isn't gigantic. I wouldn't go near either the LS/V or the B20/V unless you plan on building them - otherwise, in my opinion the HP gain justifies the cost.

So back to the topic at hand and off my tangent about the B20/V and the LS/V - if you're looking for power and reliability there's pretty much two feasible options to you.

First, for starters, I'm sure somebody by now has mentioned the B16A/B16B - this is NOT a good option as you specified you want POWER - while the B16 is just a ricer's wet dream, high RPM, and 11 more ft-lbs of torque than a Z6 - complete waste of a motor. Yes, you read that right, you pay god knows how much for a complete B16 swap for 11 more ft-lbs of tq. and an engine that feels the same as a D16 under 5K RPM. Okay, enough about how I hate the B16.

So your feasable options are:
- B18C1 (GSR)
- B18B/A (LS/RS)
- H22A (Prelude)

Each has its ups and its downs - but they're both heavy hitters when it comes to combination of reliability plus power. Why did I put the LS up there? Simple - it's a very good motor, especially in terms of reliability, and it's hella cheap. Also, if you boost it, you can run 280hp through it all day on a swell tune and pretty much eat up most cars you come across on the street, and if you blow it, it's like a 600 dollar replacement. And it's not that expensive - figure 1500 for the complete swap, 2500 to turbo puts you at 4k. Also, it being a mainstream B series, much like the GSR, there's tons of support for it.

The GSR is a pretty damn good package, combines high RPM with the fact that it actually has power in the lower RPM - it's not a complete slug under 5k like the B16 - the GSR is a very nice, quite powerful, very reliable motor. Definitely a good buy - but can cost you as much as a boosted LS for less power - though it's all motor power. The GSR is a quite solid engine.

Then there's my favorite, the H22. The H22's simple, it's a beast. 2.2L puts the torque way above any other of the mainstream Honda motors and rivals the torque with the 10,000 dollar swap of the K20. The H22 is relatively cheap, completely reliable, and makes lots and lots and lots of power. People complain about it understeering due to the added weight - that's a myth - I've pushed an H22 civic into understeer very hard and the argument of "it understeers because of the added weight" is 100% bullshit. It doesn't understeer any more than a regular D16 civic. You're only adding like 75lbs. The bang you get for that is amazing though. People bitch about the transmission (cable transmission), though I love the feel of a cable shifter over a linkage driven shifter any day, so I fail to see what they complaint about ^_^. Also, the H22 has IAB's, like the GSR, so it's actually PRACTICAL when you're not hammering it to the redline - this is where my beef with the B16 comes from - if you're not hammering that to the redline the motor's completely useless - it feels like a stock D16 under normal conditions - the H22 or GSR is completely different, even when you're not hammering it to the red it still makes nice power and very nice torque around town. Then you hammer on it and it goes berserk. People also bitch about how long the transmission is on the H22. It's not that long, it's quite nicely geared actually because it puts you in a few good positions. A) You're not a professional drag racer, so it's not like you NEED a gearbox that tops out at 140 B) With the high torque, even though the transmission is geared with some lower ratios (longer gears) it will still pull very nicely. The transmission isn't a trade-off on my opinion - it actually helps the motor become easier to live with as it won't bust your wallet. Plus if you're on the highway in 5th gear you won't be sucking down fuel like a ***** - if you put it 80mph to 80mph vs a B16 you'd both use about the same fuel do to how tightly wound up the B16's transmission is (keeps the RPM high on the highway). As far as easiness of the H22, now that there's mounts for it and everything, it's pretty damn cheap, only catch is dremeling out the metal board in front of the shifter to run the cables for the linkage.

Now some people will argue that the only way to make the H22 good is to get an H2B adapter plate and run a short B series trans on it. This has some good and some bad: Good, it'll give you all the torque of an H22, but in shorter gear ratios (and good luck keeping the wheels from spinning at the track), you won't have to chop a 3" hole in your floorboard for the linkage - you can use a regular B series linkage, and the B transmissions appear to be more reliable (though I don't know if I agree with this). The bad: Highway driving? Forget about it - with a B16 or ITR trans on that thing at 80mph you will be using almost as much fuel as a corvette LS6...and the LS6 will be a lot faster...Now given the Chevy LS series is god's gift to the automotive world, as well as one of the most economical V8's around, you don't wanna rival gas mileage like that in a Honda, but that's your call. The other bad is that you have to grind down the block to use a B series transmission - well not to use the transmission, but the bottom left corner (under the brake booster) has to be ground down so the B axle can pass by it, I don't like grinding down blocks, but to each his own.

Summary: Get a stock H22, love it, and it'll love you. Offers the best combo of power and reliability, in my opinion.

Just don't forget to change the t-belt tensioner out .

If you have any more - specific questions - feel free to IM you - hope this helped some.

Syndacate

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by OneOhNine27 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Power maybe, reliability, Id say neither. I think there were reasons why the LS and the b20 weren't Vtec. I'd say GSR.

Good luck.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You're right, there were reasons the LS and B20 weren't VTEC.

VTEC allows an engine to operate more efficiently at a higher RPM.

The B20 is a truck motor and is designed to make all its power at low RPM, and not so much as higher RPM (which is why, unbuilt, it has a low torque dropoff point) - adding VTEC to that would be COMPLETELY counterintuitive, which is the reason Honda didn't do it - and is the same reason if you're not building the B20 you shouldn't do it either.

As far as the LS goes - it's the base model, they couldn't add VTEC. Think about the formulas they had, you have civics like the EX/Si (top end) having VTEC, DX/LX not having VTEC so on and so forth, and it's always been like that until the 04 or whenever they went to 8th gen - the DX always had less - that's the nature of their sale formula - they couldn't put VTEC on the LS - it would completely kill everything from a marketing stand point? Think about when they were trying to sell these cars new, the LS would be putting out an additional 10-20hp or so.

So how the **** would they sell GSR's if it only put out 20-30 more HP than the "VTEC LS?" They couldn't. People wouldn't justify spending more for that low of a HP increase, GSR's wouldn't sell - it's the way the product line was designed, they couldn't add VTEC to the LS outta the factory, it wouldn't be practical at ALL from a marketing standpoint.

teamrpm2

good info im just not a fan of h but now tht everyone is mentioning them it makes me think maybe i should go h22a but nt sure i want to BUILD a engine

em1gangsta

well if you wanna go lsvtec... build it right the first time. cuz you hve to do everything right or you will blow your motor, you wot be able to use anything from an ls vtec swap. if honda didnt make it, it wasnt meant to be lol . i got a ls bottom end and a head for sale tho haha lol.

teamrpm2

wat u mean u wont be able to use anything from a ls vtec swap????

Garage oNe mOnKeY

here is my dyno graphs ls/v and b20/v both set ups stock on 10 psi . There is a significant difference in power an torque . b20 rules.........

teamrpm2

nice dyno runs how long has tht b20vtec turbo setup been lasting u???