xChrizcrozzx

Hey Guys So,

My lower control arm started Grinding against my Rotor then Broke off and hit the Floor then the Axle Snapped on me. (The axle was bad so I assume it put to much pressure on the Control arm). But Now after replacing the Axle the little sleeve where the ball joint goes in is completely outta place. Is there a Fix for this? OR????? Im scared to drive it & Kinda hard to find 1 Lower Control arm.

Please dont be unpleasant this is a kinda particular problem couldn't find a solution anywhere. Just need advice whether to just replace or what. THANKS SO MUCH IN ADVANCE.

94 Civic Si

Not sure what is going on there, but you need to be running a castle nut on the ball joint, otherwise that cotter pin isn't doing anything until the nut gets loose...

98civdx

replace the lower ball joint

Purple_Hatch

you need a washer on that nut. you see how crooked the nut is resting on the control arm? and hes^ right about the castle nut. those aluminum control arms are soft, if you dont put a washer that steel nut is going to dig into the aluminum.

oh yeah and you might need to press that sleeve back into the control arm. its very possible that control arm might be garbage now

TomCat39

It's not a matter of the nut digging into the arm. It's about the nut being able to turn period. End result, loose nut, ball joint pops free from it's socket in the arm.

The boot is ripped. Ball joint needs to be replaced.

Purple_Hatch

which is why i said previous responder was right about the castle nut?? mentioning the washer was meant for good measure??? sheesh, oh yeah and if the nut is digging into the aluminum its gonna cause the balljoint to come loose before the nut even begins to turn?? then the ball joint will work itself loose?? am i sounding logical here or am i just wasting my energy typing this for you?

TomCat39

You are rather combative.

I'll humor you. Nut digs into the arm maybe 2mm, probably not enough to pop the joint free. Nut spins freely for 10-25mm (1.0-2.5CM) depending.... Joint easily pops free.

Anyways, you didn't mention anything about the nut turning or any explanation of why the castle nut is correct. Then complicated things by adding other details not pertaining to the castle nut but in conjunction with your statement of the castle nut. I was clarifying why the castle nut is required for the OP and any new people finding this thread in the future.

The looks of the pictures, whomever assembled the arm and ball joint assumed the cotter pin is purely to prevent the nut from falling off. The accurate information is the cotter pin is to be used with a castle nut to prevent the nut from turning at all, no loosening as well as no tightening.

Purple_Hatch

sorry but 2mm is more than enough to pop the joint free, especially since the suspension moves up and down plenty, jolts to the suspension is more than enough to pop the joint free from 2mm. have you ever popped a ball joint with a hammer? only take a turn maybe 2 of the nut loosening and a couple good smacks with the hammer to the spindle to pop the joint free. i mean do you even know what 2mm looks like? do you have a set of brake wear gauges? if so, go grab it and tell me that 2mm isnt enough to pop that ball joint free. ive done plenty of brake measurements to know what 2mm looks like. remember the ball joint stud is wedge shaped, so when the "Castle nut" is tightened down it pulls that wedge into the arm, therefore making a press fit. if that nut is loose... even 2mm, over time the jolts from the suspension from going over bumps, pot holes, hitting curbs, whatever may come with everyday driving will make that ball joint come loose. im not sure how long you have been working on cars, or how extensive your knowledge and experiences are, but my experiences speak for themselves, and they prove to me that 2mm is more than enough. hence the need for proper torque of the "castle nut" and the proper cotter pin is required to prevent the nut from loosening at all, and yes even from tightening. dont forget we are talking about an aluminum arm with a steel insert in the arm where the ball joint connects, they put that sleeve there for a reason, because if they didnt they knew that the wedge on the stud will just dig into that soft aluminum. now combine 2mm of looseness in the ball joint, with soft aluminum arms, stiff aftermarket suspension, oh yeah and that big beautiful red polyurethane bushing. im just trying to be logical here, and apply the knowledge i have from my own experiences and from what i have witnessed. i wasnt saying the balljoint will completely pop out of the control arm from 2mm but it can jolt the wedge loose in the control arm, then the ball joint can and will spin loose from the nut, which is where the castle nut comes in, so without the caste nut, the cotter pin wont help anything. dont underestimate what these almuinum control arms are capable of doing. soft metal in areas of the suspension where soft metal should not be can cause a lot of problems. hence the need for the metal insert. i dont mean to sound like a dick, just dont completely shut someones opinion down because it defers from your own. and then try to come up with numbers to support your statement after i get defensive, when experience plays a bigger role than numbers ever will.

better yet, dont just use regular washer, use a locking washer. that in conjunction with the castle nut and proper cotter pin will ensure that you never have to worry about it coming loose again.

TomCat39

You miss the point. You were and possibly still are mashing two totally separate issues together and the only explanation you provided was the nut digging into the arm.

Someone based on the pictures and your statement could possibly think the washer is the fix for the setup in the pictures and totally miss why the castle nut is needed.

Your defensive combativeness and your mashed up massively run-on sentences don't help others moving forward.

My clarifying post explaining the purpose of the castle nut does help any who don't understand the purpose of the castle nut.

You already covered why the washer is helpful in your mashed sentence of the castle nut.

Now just for fun, lets envision the play in a loose ball joint shaft that has a liberal 2mm play from digging in and the play in a loose ball joint shaft from the nut loosening 1.0-2.5cm.

The speed of and amount of damage caused by 1-2.5 cm of play in the ball joint shaft bouncing around in the aluminum tapered hole will shred the control arm in no time flat. Quite likely causing a catastrophic failure at the most inopportune time with little to no warning. Everything is fine and tight and half way to grandma's house 500 mile away there was this sudden clunking that wasn't there initially and BANG! The front corner of the car is digging into the pavement whatever speed was being traveled.

The nut digging into the arm, at a very liberal amount of 2mm, will not provide the shaft even remotely as much play, as well as the nut itself will be encased helping to prevent horizontal movement of the shaft for a time. It will do damage to the control arm, but it will be a slower gradual damage as the little play continually works larger over time and abuse. This in turn will provide audible feedback something is wrong long before it gets life threatening. Much like a severely worn ball joint will make noise and symptoms long before it's breaking point that is life threatening.

Now this isn't to say allowing any nut, flat or castle, to dig into the control arm is desirable. I would like to clarify, I am not against preventing this at all as you would like to claim I am.

My point was you confuscated the premise of the castle nut. That confounding could mislead inexperienced searchers to think a castle nut might not be necessary.

Stealthmode Performance

The most obvious answer for me would be to get rid of the aftermarket control arms.

mk378

Yes someone went out of their way to find that thin nut so they could put it together wrong.

Remove the arm and discard. Feel the joint to see if it needs replacing, if it is loose replace it. Reassemble with a stock control arm and castle nut.

tamboo

:lol: @ confuscated! 8D

presactly my dear watson....

BryanM.

iTrader: (1)

I would replace both control arms and ball joints. MOST new ball joints come with castle nuts.

That looks like it might be a pain in the *** to fix. Good luck hommie.

tony_2018

From the Honda factory a washer was never provided, why would he need one now.

Balljoint boot is gone, replace the balljoint.

TomCat39

My TRW ball joints didn't. They also don't have provisions for the cotter pin. I had to use a penetrating thread locker on mine (green threadlocker). The TRW ball joints have a alan key tip so you can break threadlocked nuts free. I just reused my OEM castle nuts and then put green thread lock into each part of the castle.

I understand the bit on the washer. From factory the LCA is steel. The one pictured is an aftermarket aluminum one that the nut with dig into. You can see it already has a little in the pictures.

The washer is to spread the forces out over the arm so it can't dig into the soft metal as readily. Same principle as a snow show.

tony_2018

But the OP is more concern with the balljoint, rather not waste time discussing what the issue is with the lca.

xChrizcrozzx

THANKS SO MUCH GUYS!
Had a hard time seeing who i should respond too. Cause of the Heated Debate but thank you. I'm changing the LCA cause the nut isnt even visible anymore its inside the ARM and really the Nut was a temporary measure because i couldnt find a Castle nut (The old castle nuts threads got stripped) and i see you can only get the with Purchases of Ball Joints and since you guys say it needs replacing i got some of those too.

Not sure how im going to get that damn nut out of the ARM but i got tools. 2 More questions.

-The Thread/Ball joints spins i dont think it was spinning before, its not suppose to spin right?
-I had something called a "Snap Ring" come off too where does that go? (I believe the bottom of the sleeve of the LCA, Correct?)

mk378

You kept driving like that?!?

Anyway, jack up the car and put it securely on jack stands. Take the wheel off and put another jack under the control arm. Raise that jack to push the arm upward until you can reach the nut.

Yes the shank of the joint is able to rotate in the joint (as must happen every time you turn the steering wheel), but it should not have any other play.

To replace the joint remove rubber boot and you will see the snap ring, remove snap ring then press the joint up out of the knuckle. Special tools are required.

TomCat39

If you go to the dealership and buy OEM ball joints, they will not have a snap ring.
TRW ball joints do not have a snap ring nor do they have the hole for a cotter pin.
I believe Beck Arnley has both the snap ring and the cotter pin hole.

BryanM.

iTrader: (1)

Honda Automotive Parts shows circlips for balljoints from 92-00

tony_2018

link

xChrizcrozzx

YEAH lol i had no choice. A Washer and the Cotter is the only thing holding it. Wont be driving til my parts come in now tho.

BUT anyways thank you! but the snap ring wasnt from the ball it was small like the size of a quarter!

TomCat39

That's rather interesting. The OEM ones you pull from the arms don't have a c-clip as well as everyone has always said the OEM LCA ball joints don't have c-clips.... Are you sure it's not the wire spiral clamp for the boot? On torontohondaparts, it shows it as part #10 and it is on both the upper and lower joint. I honestly think it's the wire clamp for the boot as you can order the boot separately.

No c-clip seen in OEM part photo's, not even provisions to add one if you wanted to:


That most likely be would be a wire spiral clamp from the boot to help hold it in place.

tony_2018

He probably looked at the parts diagram and thought that ring was the circlip, its actually the ring that is around the boot.

BryanM.

iTrader: (1)

I don't think you can buy just the boot ring.

52338-SL0-003 008 CIRCLIP, CONTROL ARM