Knock with 89 octane
09-17-2007, 02:59 PM
#1
Member
Thread Starter
Knock with 89 octane
You guys need to help me out here. I got knock on 4th and 5th gear acceleration. I've tried:
- Replacing the O2 sensor
- New sparkplugs
- New Sparkplug wire
- New distributor rotor
- Timing set to stock specs
If I retard the timing, it helps reduce the knocking. But I still don't understand what's going on.
What other things should I try?
car info:
1997 civic LX. Totally stock engine, stock everything
It's not so much about the money but my (perfectionist) desire to have a well-running car. I usually do 93, but my wife picked 89 octane and I found out about the problem. The octane requirement in a civic is 87 octance, so reproducible (not random) and audible knocking at 89 octane means to me that something is wrong.
Modified by elpiar at 7:30 PM 9/17/2007
- Replacing the O2 sensor
- New sparkplugs
- New Sparkplug wire
- New distributor rotor
- Timing set to stock specs
If I retard the timing, it helps reduce the knocking. But I still don't understand what's going on.
What other things should I try?
car info:
1997 civic LX. Totally stock engine, stock everything
It's not so much about the money but my (perfectionist) desire to have a well-running car. I usually do 93, but my wife picked 89 octane and I found out about the problem. The octane requirement in a civic is 87 octance, so reproducible (not random) and audible knocking at 89 octane means to me that something is wrong.
Modified by elpiar at 7:30 PM 9/17/2007
09-17-2007, 03:05 PM
#3
Unceasing Measure
Re: Knock with 89 octane (elpiar)
Try the following things so as not to be such a massive failure when you post:
1.) what kind of car do you drive?
2.) what engine is in said car?
3.) what is done to said engine?
4.) why are you doing 4th and 5th gear pulls? Do you know that those are the gears most likely to destroy your motor due to the mechanical disadvantage inherent in turning the wheels through the transmission gearing?
5.) why are you running 89 octane when 93 is about $.10/gallon more expensive and about 300% more likely to keep you from knocking?
Answer all of those and we can try to help you.
1.) what kind of car do you drive?
2.) what engine is in said car?
3.) what is done to said engine?
4.) why are you doing 4th and 5th gear pulls? Do you know that those are the gears most likely to destroy your motor due to the mechanical disadvantage inherent in turning the wheels through the transmission gearing?
5.) why are you running 89 octane when 93 is about $.10/gallon more expensive and about 300% more likely to keep you from knocking?
Answer all of those and we can try to help you.
09-17-2007, 03:14 PM
#4
Member
Thread Starter
Re: Knock with 89 octane (elpiar)
Alrite sorry I was in a hurry to post
1. 1997 civic LX
2&3. Totally stock engine, stock everything
4. It's not exactly a pull. Sorry. I mean normal accelerating as in entering the highway or trying to pass on a highway.
5. It's not so much about the money but my (perfectionist) desire to have a well-running car. I usually do 93, but my wife picked 89 octane and I found out about the problem. The octane requirement in a civic is 87 octance, so reproducible (not random) and audible knocking at 89 octane means to me that something is wrong.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Archidictus »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
1.) what kind of car do you drive?
2.) what engine is in said car?
3.) what is done to said engine?
4.) why are you doing 4th and 5th gear pulls? Do you know that those are the gears most likely to destroy your motor due to the mechanical disadvantage inherent in turning the wheels through the transmission gearing?
5.) why are you running 89 octane when 93 is about $.10/gallon more expensive and about 300% more likely to keep you from knocking?
Answer all of those and we can try to help you.</TD></TR></TABLE>
1. 1997 civic LX
2&3. Totally stock engine, stock everything
4. It's not exactly a pull. Sorry. I mean normal accelerating as in entering the highway or trying to pass on a highway.
5. It's not so much about the money but my (perfectionist) desire to have a well-running car. I usually do 93, but my wife picked 89 octane and I found out about the problem. The octane requirement in a civic is 87 octance, so reproducible (not random) and audible knocking at 89 octane means to me that something is wrong.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Archidictus »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
1.) what kind of car do you drive?
2.) what engine is in said car?
3.) what is done to said engine?
4.) why are you doing 4th and 5th gear pulls? Do you know that those are the gears most likely to destroy your motor due to the mechanical disadvantage inherent in turning the wheels through the transmission gearing?
5.) why are you running 89 octane when 93 is about $.10/gallon more expensive and about 300% more likely to keep you from knocking?
Answer all of those and we can try to help you.</TD></TR></TABLE>
09-17-2007, 03:17 PM
#5
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you shouldnt have to switch to higher octane to prevent knocking with that motor.
how much retarding do you have to do to comepletely get rid of the knocking??
how much retarding do you have to do to comepletely get rid of the knocking??
09-17-2007, 03:28 PM
#6
Member
Thread Starter
Re: (iVteC_PoWeR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by iVteC_PoWeR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you shouldnt have to switch to higher octane to prevent knocking with that motor.
how much retarding do you have to do to comepletely get rid of the knocking??</TD></TR></TABLE>
Exactly. I know I can just go to higher octane, but that does not solve the underlying problem.
My timing light does not have the degree adjustment, so I only use the marks on the pulley. I think I'm retarding 3-4 degrees just making a guess.
how much retarding do you have to do to comepletely get rid of the knocking??</TD></TR></TABLE>
Exactly. I know I can just go to higher octane, but that does not solve the underlying problem.
My timing light does not have the degree adjustment, so I only use the marks on the pulley. I think I'm retarding 3-4 degrees just making a guess.
09-17-2007, 04:21 PM
#7
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Re: (iVteC_PoWeR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by iVteC_PoWeR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you shouldnt have to switch to higher octane to prevent knocking with that motor.
how much retarding do you have to do to comepletely get rid of the knocking??</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, a B7 should work fine on 89...my Y8 works fine on 89 and that's got a higher comp ratio than the Z6 which has a higher comp ratio than the B7.
Use a timing light to set the timing. Don't use the stock specs, as a motor deteriorates over time, those "stock specs" change a bit.
If you don't have one - you can borrow one.
how much retarding do you have to do to comepletely get rid of the knocking??</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, a B7 should work fine on 89...my Y8 works fine on 89 and that's got a higher comp ratio than the Z6 which has a higher comp ratio than the B7.
Use a timing light to set the timing. Don't use the stock specs, as a motor deteriorates over time, those "stock specs" change a bit.
If you don't have one - you can borrow one.
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09-17-2007, 05:08 PM
#8
Unceasing Measure
Re: (Syndacate)
A D16Y7 should work just fine on 86 octane. If you've been putting anything over 87 in it, you've been doing nothing but wasting money. Higher octane does not benefit motors designed to run economy fuel.
That aside, what is it you're hearing that makes you think the engine's knocking? If you can hear the engine detonating over the sound of tire, wind, intake and exhaust noise in 4th and 5th gear, you're likely hearing something much, much different. The only ignition issue you'd be able to hear at that speed is "spark knock" which I've only heard on one Honda - a D16Y5 1997 HX with a jammed up EGR - and it sounds like someone crumpling a ball of notebook paper under your hood when you're driving.
Check the mechanical timing on the engine. If this problem just started happening, it's possible your belt is starting to stretch or that it skipped a tooth.
That aside, what is it you're hearing that makes you think the engine's knocking? If you can hear the engine detonating over the sound of tire, wind, intake and exhaust noise in 4th and 5th gear, you're likely hearing something much, much different. The only ignition issue you'd be able to hear at that speed is "spark knock" which I've only heard on one Honda - a D16Y5 1997 HX with a jammed up EGR - and it sounds like someone crumpling a ball of notebook paper under your hood when you're driving.
Check the mechanical timing on the engine. If this problem just started happening, it's possible your belt is starting to stretch or that it skipped a tooth.
09-17-2007, 05:31 PM
#9
Member
Thread Starter
Re: (Archidictus)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Archidictus »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A D16Y7 should work just fine on 86 octane. If you've been putting anything over 87 in it, you've been doing nothing but wasting money. Higher octane does not benefit motors designed to run economy fuel.
That aside, what is it you're hearing that makes you think the engine's knocking? If you can hear the engine detonating over the sound of tire, wind, intake and exhaust noise in 4th and 5th gear, you're likely hearing something much, much different. The only ignition issue you'd be able to hear at that speed is "spark knock" which I've only heard on one Honda - a D16Y5 1997 HX with a jammed up EGR - and it sounds like someone crumpling a ball of notebook paper under your hood when you're driving.
Check the mechanical timing on the engine. If this problem just started happening, it's possible your belt is starting to stretch or that it skipped a tooth.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree. I always don't understand why people want to run 93 unless they are boosted.
As far as the type of noise, I am confident this is knocking noise type. I can hear it over the other noise cause I got a really quiet tire and quiet stock muffler.
It's time for timing belt change, that's a great idea. If the belt stretches to a point where the stock timing does not work anymore (need to be compensated by some retarding) it explains everything.
I think I'm gonna do that sometime soon. If anyone has other ideas, please let me know.
That aside, what is it you're hearing that makes you think the engine's knocking? If you can hear the engine detonating over the sound of tire, wind, intake and exhaust noise in 4th and 5th gear, you're likely hearing something much, much different. The only ignition issue you'd be able to hear at that speed is "spark knock" which I've only heard on one Honda - a D16Y5 1997 HX with a jammed up EGR - and it sounds like someone crumpling a ball of notebook paper under your hood when you're driving.
Check the mechanical timing on the engine. If this problem just started happening, it's possible your belt is starting to stretch or that it skipped a tooth.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree. I always don't understand why people want to run 93 unless they are boosted.
As far as the type of noise, I am confident this is knocking noise type. I can hear it over the other noise cause I got a really quiet tire and quiet stock muffler.
It's time for timing belt change, that's a great idea. If the belt stretches to a point where the stock timing does not work anymore (need to be compensated by some retarding) it explains everything.
I think I'm gonna do that sometime soon. If anyone has other ideas, please let me know.
09-17-2007, 05:33 PM
#11
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Re: Knock with 89 octane (elpiar)
y7's always almost sound like they're knocking LOL. Mine made sounded like it was going to chuck a rod through the block (at part throttle on the highway) when it was almost brand new, and it made it through 20k miles of boost after it had already hit 100k miles on it and was still running when I got rid of it. 
09-17-2007, 06:54 PM
#13
Unceasing Measure
Re: Knock with 89 octane (Re3irth)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Re3irth »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My gas mileage would always go down when I tried putting
something higher than 87 octane. Is that normal? 1997 Civic EX
stock motor.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Considering it's harder to combust higher octane fuels, yes, that's normal. Read the instructions before you break your toys.
something higher than 87 octane. Is that normal? 1997 Civic EX
stock motor.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Considering it's harder to combust higher octane fuels, yes, that's normal. Read the instructions before you break your toys.
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