pittsburghchad

Hello all,

I am a previous DSM/Evo owner who is now giving Honda a try (yes I miss my evo like hell). Let me start off by saying that Hondas are like greek to me (so if this is an ignorant noob question please excuse me).

About a month and a half ago I purcased a 00 SI that only had 70k miles on it & was in pretty good shape. I got the car for thousands under bb value. Well, I should have known better as within this month and a half the motor has gone bad. Cliff's notes: I think it spun a bearing. The place I bougt it only gave me a 30 day warranty and are of no help.

I have been looking at the JDM ITR motor/tranny for a swap. My questions are

A. What is the difference between the pre 97 and 97+ ITR motors?
B. Will the Type R tranny work with the SI axles?
C. What do I need to be included with the Type R motor for the swap to go smoothly?

I would like to have the swap completed over a weekend as this is my dd car. I need the swap to go as easy as possible.

I have searched and found much conflicting information. I need to make this decision rather quickly & I guess I am looking for accurate information from someone who has done this swap. The vendor I am looking at for the motor is Hmotorsonline as they were recomended by a friend.

If anyone could point me in the right direction as far as swap info is concerned it would be greatly appreciated as well.

Thanks very much in advance for any help.

posHonda

The swap should be very straight forward. The newer ITR swaps have a 4.7 final drive whereas the older ones have a 4.4. And yes your current axles will work.

Any reasons why you want the ITR swap? What are your plans for it? If you want a turbo, Id suggest saving money and grabbing a gsr. If you want n/a than I think you should look into an h2b swap.

pittsburghchad

Honestly I am just looking for more power. I don't think I want to turbo it. I owned 10 dsms, a galant vr4 & an evo 8. I want to give high revving NA (with decent mpg) a shot. I really don't plan to do too much but I would like a little more hp/tq & a lsd would be real nice. A friend suggested the ITR motor/tranny combo. It is quite expensive but if I get 10 years out of the motor it will pay itself off.

I don't plan to track this car. More of a dd that can get out of it's own way (highway warrior). haha I may throw an exhaust (header to muffler), a fuel pump, some form of tuning and maybe some cams on it. That's about all I really have planned other than the ITR motor swap

oneslowstd

ITR swap is the way to go then. H22 would be my prefrence for all motor. Lots of power out of the box, and very responsive to head and block work. But they dont rev quite as nice as a ITR.

devney

I think you'd be very happy with an ITR swap. The guy above made a good point saying that an H2b swap would be nice, but since you're looking to do this in a weekend and want it to be pretty straight forward I think you should go with the ITR.

raphael

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by posHonda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The swap should be very straight forward. The newer ITR swaps have a 4.7 final drive whereas the older ones have a 4.4. And yes your current axles will work.

Any reasons why you want the ITR swap? What are your plans for it? If you want a turbo, Id suggest saving money and grabbing a gsr. If you want n/a than I think you should look into an h2b swap.</TD></TR></TABLE>what he said .but for a dd with a h2b is un comfortable since youll loose a/c and mot likely p/s. an itr swap is expensive for not alot of power just originality. id go b20vtec w/ a itr lsd tranny for extreme power on a budget

pittsburghchad

Thanks for the replies guys. The ITR swap sounds like a good idea. But can anyone help out with the information for the swap? Parts needed, a site that has info on the swap, etc?

forcefedferio

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pittsburghchad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks for the replies guys. The ITR swap sounds like a good idea. But can anyone help out with the information for the swap? Parts needed, a site that has info on the swap, etc?</TD></TR></TABLE>

you can reuse all your mounts, shift linkage, axles...etc... it's essentially a bolt for bolt swap

good luck and welcome from Pittsburgh!

Pittspeed member?

pittsburghchad

haha yeah man, haven't posted on there in years though probably. my sn on there is 91gsx.

Oh, go Steelers!

Hellraver

everyone rather give you all the other motor possibilities than help you out here.

Everything will work from your B16, for your type R motor. The motor mounts will work, axels will work, AC bracket from your B16 will work .... everything ..... im trying to think if you will need something ..... maybe some radiator hoses lol ..... shift linkage will work just fine ..... good luck ~

RyCeRoCkeTz

iTrader: (1)

The R motor will suit fine with the EM1

kucherenko

Just heads up, I'm almost sure that the pre 97itr have 2.25 in collector while the +98itr have 2.5in collector.

Goodluck with your swap in whichever path you choose. I had the itr in my ej8 for years, and never looked back :]

Itzmy91Teg

i'm going to be doing this same swap...granted i'm getting what you could call a deal on it but you'll have a little more torque than your b16 as well as some top end hp. you can reuse axles, shift linkage, motor mounts, wiring harness, all you need is block, tranny, head, intake manifold, exhaust manifold (header), and ecu (you can probably get away with using your old ecu but you're going to get the ecu with the swap so why not use it?) other than that, everything should bolt straight up. shouldn't take you more than a few hours to drop the old motor and install the new one, and have it running. just make sure to either number or take lots of pictures so you can rember what plugs/hoses go where.

if you're wondering, i'm picking up an si shell, itr swap, itr seats, itr steering wheel, itr spindles and suspension, ctr back seats etc...for around 3k....but i also have some pretty nasty hookups....you may want to check out craigslist in your area first since last time i checked you were looking 4k+ for the swap itself. you might be able to get it a little cheaper unless money is not a factor...either way...POST PICS!

Lscivic1999

ITR swap is a nice swap out of the box for any civic, if you have the money to expend dont look for shortcut get everything done right the 1st time and you'll never look back....good luck..

RiceKillinSI

Your options are almost unlimited in your car. the ITR is a great choice if you have the money. Just make sure you order the swap from a reputable company like http://www.hmotorsonline.com/ and everything you need should be included in the swap.

Do you know anything about a H2B swap? It is a kit that alows you to bolt a H22 from a Prelude up to your B16 tranny, hince H2B. I personally would look at this if I ever blew my motor. It is a little more difficult, but the performance would be much better and cheaper. Check out these links.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1889537
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1998426

You could also pick up a LS block from a integra or a B20 block out of a CRV and build a LS/vtec. Check out this link.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1676914

As you see you have plenty of options. Just get what ever suits your needs. Good luck and sorry about your bad luck. Let us know how everything works out.

raphael

an itr swap is to expensive in my opinion. how does it compare to a k20

B18C5-EH2

You will save yourself some extra trouble if you buy a USDM ITR swap.

"Why?"

The JDM ITR engine lacks a key OBD2 sensor called the CKF, or crank fluctuation sensor. This sensor bolts to the oil pump housing, which means since the JDM R engine lacks this sensor the oil pump also doesn't have the correct boss needed to retrofit a CKF sensor to it.

Easiest solution is to buy a new, USDM B18C5 oil pump and CKF sensor from an Acura dealership and it bolts onto the JDM R engine with no issues. The shitty part is that the entire timing assembly has to come apart to swap oil pumps, but if you don't mind this extra work then go for it. You might as well toss on a new timing belt and waterpump too while you're in there, as well as cam and crank seals.

Now your other questions:

As far as JDM R swaps go the pre 98 had a 4.400 final drive tranmission and a smaller, US-spec exhaust downpipe with a cast iron exhaust manifold piece

JDM 98-up R swaps has a tubular header stock with a 2.5'' exhaust collector at the cat, which means you'll either need to run an aftermarket header anyways, or have a muffler shop weld you a 2.5'' adapter to your stock convertor, or have them make you a complete 2.5'' convertor

B16A2/Si axles and shift linkage will work fine with the Type R tranny

As far as what else is needed to make the swap go smoothly not much really. Use your stock Civic engine harness, and any accessories such as distributor, alternator, injectors, fuel rail, etc. etc. can all be used from your stock Civic B16A2 in the event your R motor is missing any of this stuff.

I've got a B18C5 US spec ITR engine and I love it. I've ran it hard for 6 years with zero issues ever. In a 99-00 Si body it's not going to be EVO killing, but it will be a big difference from the stock B16A2.

The H2B and H22A disussions are good and all, but IMO the Type R swap will be MUCH more straight forward, especially for a Honda newcomer.

B18C5-EH2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by raphael &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">an itr swap is to expensive in my opinion. how does it compare to a k20</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's the most ironic quote I've seen in a while.

A Type R B series swap would run roughly $5,000.00 in the car and running

A K20 swap would be more like $8,000.00 and up running in the car, and that's just the standard Type S model

True the K20 has more potential, and the standard power output of a regular K20A2 Type S engine is slightly better stock for stock than a B18C5, but you added"costs too much" in there and there is no more expensive swap these days than a K swap unless you go all custom fab with some crazy engine.

raphael

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That's the most ironic quote I've seen in a while.

A Type R B series swap would run roughly $5,000.00 in the car and running

A K20 swap would be more like $8,000.00 and up running in the car, and that's just the standard Type S model

True the K20 has more potential, and the standard power output of a regular K20A2 Type S engine is slightly better stock for stock than a B18C5, but you added"costs too much" in there and there is no more expensive swap these days than a K swap unless you go all custom fab with some crazy engine.</TD></TR></TABLE>my question was how does a b18c5 compare to a k20? 5 grand for a swap is way too much IMO. for 5k i can buy a reliable gsr swap and a economic turbo set-up make 300whp all day!

B18C5-EH2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by raphael &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my question was how does a b18c5 compare to a k20? 5 grand for a swap is way too much IMO. for 5k i can buy a reliable gsr swap and a economic turbo set-up make 300whp all day!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Bullfuckingshit you can buy a GS-R swap and 300whp turbo set-up for $5,000.00.

You're not talking to some noob here bro.

I have owned a B16A2, B18C1, and B18C5 swap and I've installed them all myself at my shop, and I know what the realistic going rate are for these swaps. My shop also used to install turbo set-ups, so I know how that goes too.

If you piece together a 300whp GS-R turbo it might last long enough to make that on the dyno before it blows up on the dyno.



Don't make me hunt down your recent rash of nonsensical/bullshit posts to completely discredit your opinion. You are the typical kid who READS a bunch of **** here and other places and all of the sudden you think you actually KNOW what you're talking about, but you don't.

HondamanXxX

Back to the topic!

You will be very happy with the ITR swap. H2b is nice to have but like you said it has to be done in a weekend and it will be your daily driver. So IMO H2b is out!

Motor mounts, shift linkage are all the same. I am pretty sure but not positive that you should be using your Si wiring harness. Should look into what wiring harness you should use. I don't know of anyone using the JDM wiring harness.

All you gotta do is take your old motor out, throw in the new one and plug and play!

B18C5-EH2

Mounts:

Use every mount and bracket from your B16A2 on the B18C ITR swap.

carloselpavo

Don't forget the VTEC selenoid from the B16A2 since the ITR one does not have a sensor on it.

Also you will need an ECU to go with the ITR

Good luck with the swap. I just did mine. It was straight foward ike everybody says.

fifthgearvtec7

Hey man go with the ITR swap. I have the same setup you are looking to do and oh my gosh. it is so nice. Though i can not take the credit for doing any of the work myself the power and the fun this motor gives me is so worth it. You will be surprising yourself everyday you drive it. You will find out new and amazing stuff everyday.

HondamanXxX

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by carloselpavo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Don't forget the VTEC selenoid from the B16A2 since the ITR one does not have a sensor on it.

Also you will need an ECU to go with the ITR

Good luck with the swap. I just did mine. It was straight foward ike everybody says.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not necessarily true. <U>Some</U> have and some don't.

Mine did not. What I did was I searched for a thread that will help me tell my ECU that the Vtec is there and will activiate. I will search for it again now.

EDIT: Found it. https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2078342


Modified by HondamanXxX at 1:02 PM 11/1/2007