tcr03

so i have a ls/vtec with a gsr head. i have the p72 ecu with a mugen chip. the problem is, is that the chip is hindering my performance. its set up for a bigger cam. i just got my car dynoed and im not impressed with the results so im not going to post them. so i talked to the mechanic and im running really rich and my vtec is kicking in to late(5900). he recomended i get the vafc so i can lower the fuel ratio and move the vtec point. he also said a new intake manifold would help. well ive got the money for one of them and im wondering what would help out more right now.

im leaning towards the vafc because im running so rich and getting horrible gas milage(20-22mpg), and i dont want to ruin anything by running rich.

your input would be helpfull.

triple_s1x

I would get the vafc or just get a stock p72. Swapping intake manifolds might cause you to loose more power.

tcr03

how would swapping intake manifolds make less power. i have a gsr manifold now and it is pointless with out being able to use the second butterfly. i was going to get the skunk 2 if i were going to get any.

McNizzle

i would say get the IM, then a VAFC and then get a dyno tune

cherroneballs

intake manifold. unless you have acces to a dyno to dial in the v-afc. which I don't know how a v-afc will work with your chip either.

MindEracer

iTrader: (1)

Well sense you have a chiped ecu I would, try and find a Crome or uberdata tuner and have them setup custom bin for you.. The mugen chip is crap, the rev limiter is way to high for your setup, and it has alot of functions disabled, like closed loop. Then get the intake mani and tune for that...

hype r 555

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cherroneballs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">intake manifold. unless you have acces to a dyno to dial in the v-afc. which I don't know how a v-afc will work with your chip either.</TD></TR></TABLE>




if you read the post .... he is having issue's with vtec points and fuel delivery .....
an intake manifold will not help either one signifficantly.... by getting the vafc , that will allow him to tune the car propperly and since he's been to a dyno once already .... i don't think there will be problem going there again to get car running right
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MindEracer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well sense you have a chiped ecu I would, try and find a Crome or uberdata tuner and have them setup custom bin for you.. The mugen chip is crap, the rev limiter is way to high for your setup, and it has alot of functions disabled, like closed loop. Then get the intake mani and tune for that...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

this might also be a good idea as well , and still the vafc can be used to moniter and adjust vehicle and comp. opperations in real time , doesn't always need to be on a dyno if you already know where the problems exits .... and how to correct it ...

MindEracer

iTrader: (1)

Not to start an argument, but crome is fully functional with realtime datalogging and tuning, but some equipment is needed! A chip burner, rom emulator and a laptop. Hence finding a crome tuner to make a custom chip for him.. For less then the price of the VAFC-II you can buy a romulator, chip burner, and cromepro version of software.. The only thing that makes it a little expensive is a laptop..
But this option would give him many more options then VAFC-II, will ever give you.
Like FTL/FTS,bigger injector support, future boost option, etc....

tcr03

well ive already had someone offer to sell me a chip for ten bucks that he will program for me. he said that he will pretty much take 10% fuel away across the board, set the vtec at 5200 and rev limiter at 8200. i think i might go ahead and get the intake mainfold and that chip. what do you think.

00Red_SiR

How good is this guy who was willing to burn you a new chip? and what kind of system was he going to use to do it? ie: Chrome, Uberdata, etc

hype r 555

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MindEracer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not to start an argument, but crome is fully functional with realtime datalogging and tuning, but some equipment is needed! A chip burner, rom emulator and a laptop. Hence finding a crome tuner to make a custom chip for him.. For less then the price of the VAFC-II you can buy a romulator, chip burner, and cromepro version of software.. The only thing that makes it a little expensive is a laptop..
But this option would give him many more option then VAFC-II, will ever give you.
Like FTL/FTS,bigger injector support, future boost option, etc....</TD></TR></TABLE>

very true .... but the problem will be finding the burner , and programmer ... but you're right it does allow alot more tuning cap.

check out http://www.titanmotorsports.com .... darren is a chrome programmer and maybe able to set somthing up for you ... just a thought

MindEracer

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tcr03 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well ive already had someone offer to sell me a chip for ten bucks that he will program for me. he said that he will pretty much take 10% fuel away across the board, set the vtec at 5200 and rev limiter at 8200. i think i might go ahead and get the intake mainfold and that chip. what do you think.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well a few things that bother me, Is this a custom chip for an LS/Vtec? Or is he just selling you a stock GSR map. If it is you'll still need to tune it to get it right, especialy if you throw an intake manifold on....

MindEracer

iTrader: (1)

Here is some info on crome tuners and equipment..

You can find compatable rom emulator here. This also compatable with uberdata..
You can find a chip burner here.
You can find a chipping kit here

**EDIT**A RS232 to TTL converter(The TYPE 1), but you'll have to rewire the plug it's very simple..
TUNERS FROM PGMFI.ORG



Modified by MindEracer at 10:34 AM 1/13/2005

huntarrr

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tcr03 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well ive already had someone offer to sell me a chip for ten bucks that he will program for me. he said that he will pretty much take 10% fuel away across the board, set the vtec at 5200 and rev limiter at 8200. i think i might go ahead and get the intake mainfold and that chip. what do you think.</TD></TR></TABLE>

If it were me I wouldn't do that.. Every motor is different and needs specific tuning. It can be pretty dangerous to run your car hard on a 'base' map and think your car is tuned properly. I've known of a few people's whose motors have blown thinking they were tuned with a base map.

I'd say opt for the VAFC and get you some dyno time. That will hold for the meantime, and when you can get a little more money go to a specifically tuned chipped ecu for your application.

tcr03

well i really apreciate all the help, but ive got many different answers so i think i might just get the vafc so i can get my ecu back on track. i can always get the intake later.

my only consern is that ive had a few ppl tell me that the vafc sucks and i shouldnt get it.

MindEracer

iTrader: (1)

Well there telling you it sucks because of how it tunes your car.. It tricks the ecu into thinking it is operating at different map sensor value making you're ecu add or subtract fuel, but this also makes it read from a different part of your ignition map as well, so it will throw your ignition curve off too.
So the problem with this is that it's not very precise. Also, Your ecu will constantly try to correct fuel trim to run more efficiant(stoich), so it ends up de-tuning you intial tune over time..

If you do plan using a V-AFC, I would at least get a stock gsr chip burned, so you will have a lower rev limiter, and can run your car in closed loop, if you would like.

But, who knows if the GSR or Mugen ignition map is a good for an LS/Vtec??

tcr03

i mean really what is the point of lowering the rev limiter. i dont go past 8200 anyway.

MindEracer

iTrader: (1)

Safety, that's all..Do what you want....

tcr03

no i didnt mean to second guess you i just really want to know what the difference is. does it effect the motor at all if i lower it. does it change anything else other than the red line limit. ive got the del sol si tach so 8500 is the last mark on there, and i dont usualy get to the 8000 mark anyway.

MindEracer

iTrader: (1)

It doesn't affect anything else except the rev limit, it's just a safety feature. When I drag my lude I hit me limiter every once and awhile, if I didn't have a limit who knows how high it would go?? I'm tring to lead you in the best way I can. The V-afc can be effective, but a tuned chip I think is much better all around, because you can find a more optimal ignition tune. And it will give you more options in the future..

What engine is your Mugen chip suppost to be for?

toolowsol

How many boards are you going to post this on...

I told you already just cut Jumper J1 on yoru ecu, that will put the stock fuel and ignition maps, rev limiters etc... You have a stock motor, stock settings are fine. if you get an intake manifold, i told you i would burn my semi tuned chip for you. The same chip I ran on my gsr with skunk2 manifold. $10 is to cover the cost of the chip and shipping.

tcr03

yeh i think i might go with you. if you read i told them the same thing.

MindEracer

iTrader: (1)

Sol did he post on the Uber forum too!! I didn't see it . Go with toolowsol's bin to start then get it tuned more if you need..

tcr03

no i posted on two boards. ive always been told to gather as much data as i can before making a decision. a motor is a big investment and i want as much input as posible. but since you all think highly of toolowsol im going to give him a try.

toolowsol

well it is my old bin that I drove around on for a year or so, AF is right around 14.9 at idle and 13.5:1 at wot. This of coarse is with the skunk2 manifold, this will differ if you have yoru stock manifold. Also note, that every motor is different, but with close loop enabled, the ecu should take care of most enomolies