intake manifold coated with crap
10-07-2005, 05:51 PM
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intake manifold coated with crap
i got my hondata intake manifold gasket in the mail yesterday and so i figured i would install it today. when unscrewing the nuts i anticipated some grime in there but when i pulled it off each runner had a layer of sludge.
i sprayed some cleaner on it and wiped away what i could from inside the intake manifold and the head.
should it have been that gross? should i have gotten a catch can a while ago? posts from those with experience only and i did throw some sea foam in there about 9 months ago. the engine has 110k miles on it.
i sprayed some cleaner on it and wiped away what i could from inside the intake manifold and the head.
should it have been that gross? should i have gotten a catch can a while ago? posts from those with experience only and i did throw some sea foam in there about 9 months ago. the engine has 110k miles on it.
10-07-2005, 06:12 PM
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Re: (Deemeetree)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Deemeetree »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Oil build-up was most likely blow-by. </TD></TR></TABLE>
are you serious? blow by? do you even know what that is? i'd like you to explain to me how blowby ends up in the INTAKE manifold.
to the op. its just build up from the positive crankcase ventalition hose. you can get a pcv filter, or an oil catch can so it wont' end up in your intake manifold. but for now you can use carb cleaner to clean it out
are you serious? blow by? do you even know what that is? i'd like you to explain to me how blowby ends up in the INTAKE manifold.
to the op. its just build up from the positive crankcase ventalition hose. you can get a pcv filter, or an oil catch can so it wont' end up in your intake manifold. but for now you can use carb cleaner to clean it out
10-07-2005, 06:15 PM
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Re: (ek_99_SiR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ek_99_SiR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i feel a interweb fight coming on</TD></TR></TABLE>
did you just say interweb?
did you just say interweb?
10-07-2005, 06:28 PM
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Well, here's the story. The crankcase, that which contains the crankshaft and connecting rods, is the bottom side of the engine - you can see the bottom of the pistons from under there. Compressed fuel and air mixture burns in the cylinder on the top of the pistons. When the rings become tired and worn they allow some of this compressed and burning mixture to leak past and escape into the crankcase. That is called "blow by".
In old engines that blowby simply vented into the atmosphere via a tube called a crankcase vent tube. The EPA found bad stuff in that blowby gas and mandated that the engines must suck up that stuff and burn it to render it harmful in some other way. In came the PCV which stands for Positive Crankcase Ventilation, named after the then head of the EPA Pierre Positive.
This system makes the engine suck the junk out of the crankcase via the PCV Valve into the intake manifold and back thorough the system. Welll, if that system is sucking the junk out, there must be a source of air to go into the crankcase else you would just implode the engine and the oil pan would collapse. Soooo, they ran a tube from the top of the valve covers to a source of clean air so that dirt would not get sucked into the crankcase. (note: the valve cover covers the valve train but that is also part of the crankcase - air and blow-by move readily between those zones in the engine.) The source of clean air which was chosen is the air cleaner - makes sense, except for the fact that the air doesn't go thorough the air cleaner filter, so they put a little kotex-like pad in there to clean the bugs and stones out of the air.
Remember now, the air is supposed to flow from the air cleaner's Kotex pad thorough that hose and into the valve cover, circulate around the crankcase and get sucked out via the PCV Valve. When the blow-by becomes so excessive that the PCV Valve system can't remove it, it has to go somewhere! Else the crankcase pressure would become excessive and the engine would explode. The place that it goes is back thorough the hose to the air cleaner - THE WRONG WAY!!! Of course it carries any oil in the valve cover back with it and that's what you mop up two or three times a month or week if it's really bad. Bottom line?? It's time for a new box of kotex or an engine overhaul, whichever is cheaper. (there is one other solution - see below)
If you do find oil in your air cleaner it may well be that your PCV valve is stuck closed and is therefore not sucking the blow-by out of the crankcase but rather, it is blowing back into the air cleaner. Make sure to check the PCV Valve before overhauling your engine!!
Here's a trick that one of my readers suggested. Take a copper pipe "T" and insert it in the hose going from the air cleaner to the valve cover. Attach a short length of tubing to the T and run it into a gallon milk jug that you can hang somewhere in the engine compartment below the hose "T". Oil will drain into the jug and when it collects a quart or so, just dump it back into the crankcase!!
For those of you who want a better solution, along comes a company I just discovered (two years after I wrote this article) who makes a very simple and cost effective product that will fix your blow-by problems forever. Take a look here for a quick description of what this device is and what it does. You can then send me a mailnote to get further information, or to order the EnValve. Just include your name, address, and the year, make and model of your car with the engine type included. See below UPDATE for more information. The inventor of this device guarantees that it will stop blowby problems and eliminate the need for that copper T and milk jug!
Taken from:
http://www.misterfixit.com/blow-by.htm
Read the 2nd, 3rd and 4th paragraph. It wants to vent to the air cleaner, but what is in between the engine and the air filter, oh wait, the intake manifold.
Seriously, don't rant like a little school getting her cookie taken away before you come correct.
Trust me, I've had a Jeep Cherokee for many years and now a Jeep Grand Cherokee. The 242 4.0 I6 is the mother of blow-by. I've dealt with it.
In old engines that blowby simply vented into the atmosphere via a tube called a crankcase vent tube. The EPA found bad stuff in that blowby gas and mandated that the engines must suck up that stuff and burn it to render it harmful in some other way. In came the PCV which stands for Positive Crankcase Ventilation, named after the then head of the EPA Pierre Positive.
This system makes the engine suck the junk out of the crankcase via the PCV Valve into the intake manifold and back thorough the system. Welll, if that system is sucking the junk out, there must be a source of air to go into the crankcase else you would just implode the engine and the oil pan would collapse. Soooo, they ran a tube from the top of the valve covers to a source of clean air so that dirt would not get sucked into the crankcase. (note: the valve cover covers the valve train but that is also part of the crankcase - air and blow-by move readily between those zones in the engine.) The source of clean air which was chosen is the air cleaner - makes sense, except for the fact that the air doesn't go thorough the air cleaner filter, so they put a little kotex-like pad in there to clean the bugs and stones out of the air.
Remember now, the air is supposed to flow from the air cleaner's Kotex pad thorough that hose and into the valve cover, circulate around the crankcase and get sucked out via the PCV Valve. When the blow-by becomes so excessive that the PCV Valve system can't remove it, it has to go somewhere! Else the crankcase pressure would become excessive and the engine would explode. The place that it goes is back thorough the hose to the air cleaner - THE WRONG WAY!!! Of course it carries any oil in the valve cover back with it and that's what you mop up two or three times a month or week if it's really bad. Bottom line?? It's time for a new box of kotex or an engine overhaul, whichever is cheaper. (there is one other solution - see below)
If you do find oil in your air cleaner it may well be that your PCV valve is stuck closed and is therefore not sucking the blow-by out of the crankcase but rather, it is blowing back into the air cleaner. Make sure to check the PCV Valve before overhauling your engine!!
Here's a trick that one of my readers suggested. Take a copper pipe "T" and insert it in the hose going from the air cleaner to the valve cover. Attach a short length of tubing to the T and run it into a gallon milk jug that you can hang somewhere in the engine compartment below the hose "T". Oil will drain into the jug and when it collects a quart or so, just dump it back into the crankcase!!
For those of you who want a better solution, along comes a company I just discovered (two years after I wrote this article) who makes a very simple and cost effective product that will fix your blow-by problems forever. Take a look here for a quick description of what this device is and what it does. You can then send me a mailnote to get further information, or to order the EnValve. Just include your name, address, and the year, make and model of your car with the engine type included. See below UPDATE for more information. The inventor of this device guarantees that it will stop blowby problems and eliminate the need for that copper T and milk jug!
Taken from:
http://www.misterfixit.com/blow-by.htm
Read the 2nd, 3rd and 4th paragraph. It wants to vent to the air cleaner, but what is in between the engine and the air filter, oh wait, the intake manifold.
Seriously, don't rant like a little school getting her cookie taken away before you come correct.
Trust me, I've had a Jeep Cherokee for many years and now a Jeep Grand Cherokee. The 242 4.0 I6 is the mother of blow-by. I've dealt with it.
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10-07-2005, 06:29 PM
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Re: (littlegreenb18)
he meant 'T3H 1NT4RW3B' 
i understand and the blowby would go through the pcv system, but i had not anticipated it to be soooo caked on.
i did spray cleaner all over the place to do my best to clean it. but i wonder what its like in the plenum.
i understand and the blowby would go through the pcv system, but i had not anticipated it to be soooo caked on.
i did spray cleaner all over the place to do my best to clean it. but i wonder what its like in the plenum.
10-07-2005, 06:34 PM
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Re: (Deemeetree)
somebody is a little defensive. no need to get upset. i don't think you need to explain to anybody what blowby is, but its nice that you took the time to find that article, i'm sure its very informative. I'll admit when i'm wrong, i misunderstood what you said.
to the op. if your engine is old, and its been used for years, its not uncommon. I've seen it before. its hard to say though considering i don't know how bad it is, but if you're worried about it do a compression check.
to the op. if your engine is old, and its been used for years, its not uncommon. I've seen it before. its hard to say though considering i don't know how bad it is, but if you're worried about it do a compression check.
10-07-2005, 06:37 PM
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Not getting defensive. But if you had approached me as, "Are you sure it's blow-by, I think it might be something else. What do you have to back-up your statement?" would've been nice and a good way for a nice little debate.
But when you come at me as if I'm a ******* moron not knowing what blow-by is and debating whether my knowledge on this matter is relevant, that doesn't float my boat.
But it's all gravy.
But when you come at me as if I'm a ******* moron not knowing what blow-by is and debating whether my knowledge on this matter is relevant, that doesn't float my boat.
But it's all gravy.
10-07-2005, 06:42 PM
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Re: (Deemeetree)
i have nothing to back up what i said, you obviously know what blow by is. since we both know there is nothing to debate. like i said, i was wrong. i misunderstood you. it sounded like you ment blowby was comming back up into the intake manfold through the intake ports. if someone said something like that, wouldn't you think they were a moron? i don't have much tolerence for stupidity, but i don't have a problem admitting i was wrong and i acted too quickly. btw whats gravy?
10-07-2005, 07:07 PM
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Gravy - what you put on mashed potatoes. Duh!
It's an old saying my friends and I used to say back in H.S. when something is "alright". It's all gravy, it's alright.
It's an old saying my friends and I used to say back in H.S. when something is "alright". It's all gravy, it's alright.
10-07-2005, 07:14 PM
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Re: intake manifold coated with crap (bleh)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bleh »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> the engine has 110k miles on it.</TD></TR></TABLE>so it is pretty normal to have some cake in there? i had anticipated some just not as much as there was.
10-07-2005, 07:16 PM
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Re: intake manifold coated with crap (bleh)
yeah, its not uncommon at all. but like i said, if you're worried about it, do a compression test, if you haven't done one before its really really easy.
10-07-2005, 07:20 PM
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Re: intake manifold coated with crap (littlegreenb18)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by littlegreenb18 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah, its not uncommon at all. but like i said, if you're worried about it, do a compression test, if you haven't done one before its really really easy.</TD></TR></TABLE>yea man thanks i just didnt know if it was really necisary. even if i had bad compression theres not much i could do about it....
i do wail on the car a lot so that could be why its that bad
im surprized neither of you mentioned that a car with lower pressure in the crankcase will run more efficiently
i just didnt know if it was really necisary. even if i had bad compression theres not much i could do about it.... i do wail on the car a lot so that could be why its that bad
im surprized neither of you mentioned that a car with lower pressure in the crankcase will run more efficiently
10-07-2005, 07:35 PM
#17
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replace PCV and even invest in a catch can if you want to diminish the oil build up in your catch can.. also, make sure you replace the PCV valve every 6months to a year especially with the old motors... it's like 3-5 bucks... that should keep the breather parts clean
10-07-2005, 07:39 PM
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Re: intake manifold coated with crap (bleh)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bleh »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im surprized neither of you mentioned that a car with lower pressure in the crankcase will run more efficiently</TD></TR></TABLE>
thats why they hook it up to your intake, cuz it sucks
catch cans and filters dont, so theres a trade off
thats why they hook it up to your intake, cuz it sucks
catch cans and filters dont, so theres a trade off
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