Maverik4k

Hey,

I have brembo cross drilled rotors and i originally bought aem pads for my 93 ex w/o abs. I really didn't think they were that great.

Now i was wondering what brake pads are people digging the most.
Im thinking one of these:
Hawk hp
hawk hp+ race
Brembo Sports
axis metal masters?
axis ultimate

brembo's are 50$ shipped, and i can get the axis ultimas for only 62$ is it worth the difference?

i heard hawks have lots of brake dust.

TouringAccord

what are you going to be doing? Daily driving, AutoX ??

For my 95 Accord EX, I had put brembo blanks with AutoZone carbon-metalic pads (lifetime warranty) and new fluid and loved them. I was only daily driving though but never had any problems with fading or vibrations and they didn't dust that much either. I don't know how that combination would hold up to AutoX though, I totalled the car before I could find out.

chris_c

i am running axxis metal master pads on brembo cross drilled rotors. the pad/rotor combo easily locks up my 15" yoko ES100's. that stated, it's more than enough braking power. the axxis mm pads so coat the wheels with a lot of brake dust tho...

00Red_SiR

You may want to consider EBC Green pads as well. I use them on my car and really like them, they bite really nice, wear well and give off next to no dust. I use my car for daily driving and some Solo 1 racing, drag racing and a little auto x.

What sold me on them was an article I had read in Sport Compact car I belive it was, quite a while ago. The magazine was testing a bunch of RSX's that were given to them from a number of different tuning companies to see which car/tuner performed the best. When they were doing the braking test, all of the cars were running big brake kits with multi piston calipers except for one which was still using the stock brakes with only the stock brake pads being swapped out for EBC green pads. The stock braked EBC green pad equiped RSX stopped as well or better than all the other big braked RSX's there. The results even surprised the testers! So I figured That I would get them if they would give me the performance of a big brake kit, but without the extra unsprung weight they add, extra cost and no bling/sleeper factor. I've been extremely happy with the way they've performed ever since.


Modified by 00Red_SiR at 12:32 PM 11/18/2004

litterbox

Where can you get the EBC Green pads?

TouringAccord

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by litterbox &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Where can you get the EBC Green pads?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think TireRack carry EBC products.

00Red_SiR

I got mine from Keystone when I had my shop, but my experience is that you can purchase them through most any performance shop. You could always try a Google search online and see what comes up for places to buy them.

Feriofan

Sorry I think I saw something else... Just brain not "ON" yet....

:Goes and gets coffee:: ::Makes sure that does not have underwear over his pants this morning!! :::


Thanks


Modified by Feriofan at 11:07 AM 11/18/2004


Modified by Feriofan at 11:09 AM 11/18/2004

00Red_SiR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Feriofan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Have you consider AEM/NISSIN pads?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Maverik4k &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey,

I have brembo cross drilled rotors and i originally bought aem pads for my 93 ex w/o abs. I really didn't think they were that great.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

dseriessol

hawks website said that they are not currently making a pad for my car, its a del sol w/o abs and same they said the same about a hatch w/o abs does anyone have them on there eg??

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00Red_SiR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What sold me on them was an article I had read in Sport Compact car I belive it was, quite a while ago. The magazine was testing a bunch of RSX's that were given to them from a number of different tuning companies to see which car/tuner performed the best. When they were doing the braking test, all of the cars were running big brake kits with multi piston calipers except for one which was still using the stock brakes with only the stock brake pads being swapped out for EBC green pads. The stock braked EBC green pad equiped RSX stopped as well or better than all the other big braked RSX's there. The results even surprised the testers! So I figured That I would get them if they would give me the performance of a big brake kit, but without the extra unsprung weight they add, extra cost and no bling/sleeper factor. I've been extremely happy with the way they've performed ever since. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Big brake kits actually reduce unsprung weight due to aluminum calipers/hardware/rotor hats (by a few lbs.). Bigger brake kits, don't make you stop faster (that is what brake balance does), they give you better pressure control & response (since 4pots flex less than floating calipers), way better fade resistance (due to larger rotors heat capacity), and better pedal pressure (from stainless lines, and solid caliper mounting). Usually they will only shine on a road course where you build up a lot of brake heat.

As for the quy that is looking to upgrade his brakes, your already on the right track. Get good fluid, brembo blanks (crossdrilled will crack & they cost WAY too much), good pads (try cobaltfriction too), and mabey some good stainless steel lines (only get a name brand).

00Red_SiR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94eg! &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Big brake kits actually reduce unsprung weight due to aluminum calipers/hardware/rotor hats (by a few lbs.). Bigger brake kits, don't make you stop faster (that is what brake balance does), they give you better pressure control & response (since 4pots flex less than floating calipers), way better fade resistance (due to larger rotors heat capacity), and better pedal pressure (from stainless lines, and solid caliper mounting). Usually they will only shine on a road course where you build up a lot of brake heat.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Interestingly enough I actually saw some dyno testing where big brake kits actually cost WHP, similar to putting larger wheels on. Even though (in this particular case) the brake kit weighed 3lbs less per wheel in unsprung weight, the larger disc diameter required more inertia (power) to rotate it because it was farther out from the wheel center. Everything else you said was pretty much correct and the fact that they really make the difference on a road course. They increase stopping ability through better leverage on the larger caliper. It's a lot easier to stop a 12" diameter wheel than it is to stop a 3" wheel spinning at the same speed using a clamping force.

wifesaynogo

ebc greenstuff pads...simply amazing

AutoXer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00Red_SiR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Everything else you said was pretty much correct and the fact that they really make the difference on a road course. They increase stopping ability through better leverage on the larger caliper. It's a lot easier to stop a 12" diameter wheel than it is to stop a 3" wheel spinning at the same speed using a clamping force.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I thought the big brakes advantage was the larger swept area?



Using those dimensions, the 10" rotor would have 65.97 in^2 of swept area, while the 12" would have 84.27 in^2 of swept area.

That means for every wheel revolution (wich would be consistant between the two setups) the 12" rotor would have 18.84 in^2 more friction material in contact for any given clamping force. That can be significant at the high rotational speeds on the track or highway. More friction material = better braking distance, correct?

00Red_SiR

Yep, what you said is just another way of describing how "better leverage" works Moving the caliper farther away from the wheel center and increasing brake surface area is what increases overall stopping power.

AutoXer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00Red_SiR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yep, what you said is just another way of describing how "better leverage" works </TD></TR></TABLE>

Ah, I see, the better leverage comment threw me off the first time around I guess

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

Well, you can only apply as much brake tourqe as your tires can handle befor they loose grip. Basically if you can lock them up, your set on tourqe, and any OEM brake system can do this (unless your on race tires, but I still doubt thats too much traction). The a larger rotors only real advantage is a larger heat capacity resulting in better fade resistance. You will deff. loose WHP since they are harder to spin. A larger diameter isn't the only way to increase heat capacity. You can also widen the rotor w/ less of a HP loss, but then you must widen your caliper too.

duh blacksheep

any pad will let you lock up the wheel, unless its subpar to oem spec or you have defective brake components. if you dont plan on doing 100mph braking, dont worry about pads, autox doesnt require much braking anyway.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by duh blacksheep &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">any pad will let you lock up the wheel, unless its subpar to oem spec or you have defective brake components. if you dont plan on doing 100mph braking, dont worry about pads, autox doesnt require much braking anyway.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is poor advice. You SHOULD worry about pads because they all operate in different heat ranges. If your pads get out of their heat range and become overheated, they will leave uneven deposits on the rotors surface and then your rotors will shake the **** out of your car when you use the brakes (most people say its "warped rotors" but its not). It only takes one emergency stop on the freeway to do this to average pads. Get good pads, that will operate properly at higher temperatures, and you will NEVER regret it. Just remember, any high temp sport pad will leave more brake dust, but be easier to clean.

JeffS

Of that list, I would buy the Axis Ultimates or something like the Carbotech Bobcat.

The Hawk HP+ is nice, but they are quite noisy. The Metal Masters are a step down from the Ultimates and I have no experience with the Brembo or Hawk HP.

Stay away from EBC...

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

Just do a search on each pad your interested in (on H/T of course), read everything, and you will know the truth about each and every one.

JeffS

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94eg! &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just do a search on each pad your interested in (on H/T of course), read everything, and you will know the truth about each and every one.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The TRUTH eh? that made me laugh.

Most of the threads I read on H-T lately are filled with comments like "I heard..." or "this guy I know..." and very little acurate information. Unfortunately, some people don't have the patience to weed through the pages of misinformation long enough to learn truth from fiction.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

I have the patience, but I am obsessive about product research.

AutoXer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94eg! &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

This is poor advice. You SHOULD worry about pads because they all operate in different heat ranges. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Absolutely. People take pads for granted, and don't understand the importance of getting the proper pad for the driving duty it is used for.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94eg! &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well, you can only apply as much brake tourqe as your tires can handle befor they loose grip. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Sure, the brakes stop the wheels, the wheels stop the car. My example was just theoretical, based upon an equal torque applied to each for stopping, but short of maximum effort (so no locking). Just my thinking out loud to work out the benefit of the larger brakes; aside from the heat capacity.

To the OP, for daily driving, get Brembo Blanks and Axxis / PBR Ultimates. More than you'll ever need for the street. I've installed these on a few cars, and it's just short of my Hawk / Brembo setup. They still dust more than a normal pad, but not as much as the Hawks, and they're a little quieter. The Metal Masters aren't worth it at all.

If you're going to track the car at all, I'd go with the Hawks. The normal HP is great, and I didn't notice too much 'real world' difference between them and the HP+. It was only under extreme conditions that the + held up better. They dust quite a bit, and can be noisy, but I'm more than happy with them.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

They have really good prices at http://www.nopi.com for brembo blanks & Axxis Ultimate Pads.