Im confused about tire wear.
11-30-2006, 10:00 PM
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Im confused about tire wear.
So my car is lowered on skunk2 coilovers+kyb agxs'. After the drop my tires went to hell in a few months. did some researching and came to the conclusion that its alignment (toe) that causes uneaven tire wear. so i get a lifetime warranty deal from firestone and have been getting it re-aligned every 3-4 months for about a year. during that time tire wear seemed right on track and wearing evenly. about a month after my last alignment i notice that my front right tire is almost bald on the inside, and only my front right.
ive been rotating my tires on schedule and everything is wearing even except for the front right. so im a bit confused now? should i get a front camber kit? or should i just take it back to firestone and ask them to zero out my toe? ive still got a good amount of tread on the other 3 tires but this front right wont last much longer at this rate. so what should i do?
ive been rotating my tires on schedule and everything is wearing even except for the front right. so im a bit confused now? should i get a front camber kit? or should i just take it back to firestone and ask them to zero out my toe? ive still got a good amount of tread on the other 3 tires but this front right wont last much longer at this rate. so what should i do?
11-30-2006, 10:13 PM
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Re: Im confused about tire wear. (Miracle)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Miracle »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wear on the inner tread isn't a toe issue, but a camber issue.
Get a camber kit.
Problem solved.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Get a camber kit.
Problem solved.</TD></TR></TABLE>
12-01-2006, 08:21 AM
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Re: (JRizEJ6)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Miracle »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wear on the inner tread isn't a toe issue, but a camber issue.</TD></TR></TABLE>
BZZT! wrong. camber does not kill tires, toe does. wear on the inner edges is because there is too much toe out. when you lower a double wishbone civic, it causes excessive toe out. you need to change this, otherwise on a street car you will have too much wear.
when you get these alignments from firestone, what settings are they using?
BZZT! wrong. camber does not kill tires, toe does. wear on the inner edges is because there is too much toe out. when you lower a double wishbone civic, it causes excessive toe out. you need to change this, otherwise on a street car you will have too much wear.
when you get these alignments from firestone, what settings are they using?
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12-01-2006, 09:08 AM
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Re: Im confused about tire wear. (egmatt89)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by egmatt89 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">skunk camber kit </TD></TR></TABLE>
Ya, or any camber kit - but make sure it's brand name :-\ - Not an ebay knockoff.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Ya, or any camber kit - but make sure it's brand name :-\ - Not an ebay knockoff.
12-01-2006, 10:14 AM
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Re: (ilovemysedan)
BZZT! wrong? that's camber rodney not toe. Think about what happens to the tire when your supsension is lowered, the wheels are tilted outwards, hence the inner edge of the tire gets worn down.
12-01-2006, 10:32 AM
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Re: (93c1sol)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93c1sol »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">BZZT! wrong? that's camber rodney not toe. </TD></TR></TABLE>
bro, you don't want to go down that route. you are incorrect. please do a search.
bro, you don't want to go down that route. you are incorrect. please do a search.
12-01-2006, 10:33 AM
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Re: (Rodney)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rodney »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
BZZT! wrong. camber does not kill tires, toe does. wear on the inner edges is because there is too much toe out. when you lower a double wishbone civic, it causes excessive toe out. you need to change this, otherwise on a street car you will have too much wear.
when you get these alignments from firestone, what settings are they using?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not all the time, I had perfect toe and the inside of my tire still wore like an sob because i had -2.8* camber on both sides. Of coarse camber's gonna wear tires when the sit like / \. OP, I'd get the Omni or Skunk 2.
BZZT! wrong. camber does not kill tires, toe does. wear on the inner edges is because there is too much toe out. when you lower a double wishbone civic, it causes excessive toe out. you need to change this, otherwise on a street car you will have too much wear.
when you get these alignments from firestone, what settings are they using?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not all the time, I had perfect toe and the inside of my tire still wore like an sob because i had -2.8* camber on both sides. Of coarse camber's gonna wear tires when the sit like / \. OP, I'd get the Omni or Skunk 2.
12-01-2006, 10:46 AM
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Re: (Kruzen510)
camber being the main cause of tire wear on the inside is a general misconception of this forum. it does not help wear, but major inside wear is cause by excessive toe out.
i have aligned 100's of vehicles, so i know perfectly why/how this happens. with toe out while going straight, the inside of the tire is being scraped along because both tires are facing either directions. short of doing massive burnouts, negative camber will not wear tires quickly/excessively.
this have been covered a billion times. i just did a quick search, see threads:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1696433
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1293208
i have aligned 100's of vehicles, so i know perfectly why/how this happens. with toe out while going straight, the inside of the tire is being scraped along because both tires are facing either directions. short of doing massive burnouts, negative camber will not wear tires quickly/excessively.
this have been covered a billion times. i just did a quick search, see threads:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1696433
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1293208
12-01-2006, 10:50 AM
#15
funny. I have about -1.75 camber in front and -1.25 rear and 0 toe all around no abnormal tire wear.
i do my own alignments, strings! works well for me. helps when you have a camber gauge as well; i just have a std bubble one from racer parts wholesale. while increased camber does acclerate toe wear, toe wear in itself wears tires moreso than camber ever will.
Modified by chrisw85 at 12:07 PM 12/1/2006
i do my own alignments, strings! works well for me. helps when you have a camber gauge as well; i just have a std bubble one from racer parts wholesale. while increased camber does acclerate toe wear, toe wear in itself wears tires moreso than camber ever will.
Modified by chrisw85 at 12:07 PM 12/1/2006
12-01-2006, 11:40 AM
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Re: (chrisw85)
ok now i see that there are different types of kits available. i see upper ball joint replacements and i also see whole front arm replacements. which one would be for me? differences in the two?
12-01-2006, 12:04 PM
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Re: (JRizEJ6)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JRizEJ6 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok now i see that there are different types of kits available. i see upper ball joint replacements and i also see whole front arm replacements. which one would be for me? differences in the two?</TD></TR></TABLE>
i suggest the whole upper control arm replacement for the front (skunk2 style) and for the rear a simple adjustable upper arm from ingalls will work well.
i suggest the whole upper control arm replacement for the front (skunk2 style) and for the rear a simple adjustable upper arm from ingalls will work well.
12-01-2006, 12:18 PM
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Re: (Ricey McRicerton)
I used to go through tires like I go through socks. Toe was inspec, but the camber was jacked (-4in drop 
). Now I've got omni power streets w/ adjustable upper control arms and the rear kit too (only -2.7in drop). Tires look mint after a summer of abuse.
). Now I've got omni power streets w/ adjustable upper control arms and the rear kit too (only -2.7in drop). Tires look mint after a summer of abuse.
12-01-2006, 12:42 PM
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Re: (B2CivMan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B2CivMan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I used to go through tires like I go through socks. Toe was inspec, but the camber was jacked (-4in drop ). Now I've got omni power streets w/ adjustable upper control arms and the rear kit too (only -2.7in drop). Tires look mint after a summer of abuse. </TD></TR></TABLE>
toe 'in-spec' is not the same as zero-toe. if a tire is not in zero-toe then it can wear faster, period. Any amount of toe neg or pos will cause the tire to drag down the road at and angle not perpendicular to the road. 0 toe means its rolling straight. Now, while some people use toe to finely tune the car's hadnling characteristics on the track, toe is still angling the tire in or out and tire wear is not as much of a concern on the track comapared to how it handles.
imgine this is viewing directly above the tires----> /../..^..\..\ and that is going down the road, see how toe-in will make the tires pratically drag sideways? versus zero-toe----> |..|..^..|..| extreme examples but thats what it is.
). Now I've got omni power streets w/ adjustable upper control arms and the rear kit too (only -2.7in drop). Tires look mint after a summer of abuse. </TD></TR></TABLE>toe 'in-spec' is not the same as zero-toe. if a tire is not in zero-toe then it can wear faster, period. Any amount of toe neg or pos will cause the tire to drag down the road at and angle not perpendicular to the road. 0 toe means its rolling straight. Now, while some people use toe to finely tune the car's hadnling characteristics on the track, toe is still angling the tire in or out and tire wear is not as much of a concern on the track comapared to how it handles.
imgine this is viewing directly above the tires----> /../..^..\..\ and that is going down the road, see how toe-in will make the tires pratically drag sideways? versus zero-toe----> |..|..^..|..| extreme examples but thats what it is.
12-01-2006, 01:05 PM
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Re: (chrisw85)
chrisw is on point. i run over a 1/4" toe out and -3.2 degrees of camber..... the car's turn in is phenominal 
i run over a 1/4" toe out and -3.2 degrees of camber..... the car's turn in is phenominal
12-01-2006, 01:55 PM
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Re: (Ricey McRicerton)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ricey McRicerton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm with Rodney on this one. Camber doesn't kill tires like toe does. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I also agree... the only time camber would lead to excessive wear is if you're continually gunning it from a dead stop and making the tires grab the road.
The Skunk2 upper arms are great, and the Ingalls rear upper arms are good for initial adjustments, but they are not "weather treated" at all and start to rust very quickly. This makes it a PAIN to adjust them later on since the adjusting nut binds to the rusty threads. Skunk2 started making the same style with rear upper arms so I'd look into those; they might be a bit more resistant to the elements.
I'm down about 2" both front and rear with 0* camber in front and -1* camber in rear. Tires don't wear abnormally at all. <0.5* +/- toe as well.
I also agree... the only time camber would lead to excessive wear is if you're continually gunning it from a dead stop and making the tires grab the road.
The Skunk2 upper arms are great, and the Ingalls rear upper arms are good for initial adjustments, but they are not "weather treated" at all and start to rust very quickly. This makes it a PAIN to adjust them later on since the adjusting nut binds to the rusty threads. Skunk2 started making the same style with rear upper arms so I'd look into those; they might be a bit more resistant to the elements.
I'm down about 2" both front and rear with 0* camber in front and -1* camber in rear. Tires don't wear abnormally at all. <0.5* +/- toe as well.
12-01-2006, 03:05 PM
#24
i have spc rear upper camber arms they seems to be well painted, i'm not sure about the threads, i may just spray some silicone on them or coat them in some anti-seize to help prevent rust.
12-01-2006, 06:04 PM
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Re: (chrisw85)
dont buy a camber kit just buy cheaper tires more often. jk just so you know. camber will solve that. you can get a cheap kit on ebay for like 40$. not saying egay is the way but hell itll fix it