HatchEh2

WELL... for the past 33 hrs straight i ALONE have been working on my eg hatch. Im under the gun here...

SO... i take out the tranny and everything infront of the rad support to fix my front end from a situation that occured 2 days before xmas (see signature for thread link). I changed the clutch, pressure plate, and throwout bearing (all OEM). i followed the Haynes manual and took the 3 distributor mounting bolts off-removing the distributor.

NOW.. i come to crank it and WOW.. runs like ****. first it sounds like its flooded trying to kick, then itll kick and run like a diseal motor before stalling. i tried **** loads of different paterns for the spark plug wires... the best was the one i just explained and the worst was something like this: powerful cranking...CLUNKK...powerful cranking continues....CLUNKK... and so on and so forth goes the pattern. sounded like it was misfiring and/or detnating and the piston was hitting the cylinder walls...

One of the patterns i tried ran... (shitty as hell but better than the rest) only think was.. i pushed the throttle cable (from underneith the hood) and as it climbs through the rpm band the tone was POPPING and not only that ... with every POP (as long as i was touching the throttle cable) i got jolted...
I pulled the distributor off again and spun the piece in the back that interlocks w/ the camshaft to try to maybe set the ignition sequence right?? went out and got a new set of wires (the plugs are only a month or so old.. no need for replacing)

I also took the battery terminals off to try and reset the ECU.. NADA!
btw: the CEL is NOT on (well atleast for the few seconds it runs)

^now thats that.. Now my clutch pedal is EXTREMELY soft.. not to mention no matter how hard its pressed in.. THE CLUTCH DOESNT DISENGAGE!!!
-pedal to the floor
-car running (still shitty)
-come to put it in gear... ::GRINDING SOUND::

btw, im hungry and exhausted so im taking a honda-tech/last nights dinner/this mornings breakfast break so i didnt yet bleed the clutch.. if that could be y.. THAT WOULD PUT A SMILE ON MY FACE ...but if not tranny comes off.. pressure plate bolts get loosend...

please please please, you expereinced ppl out there... take some time to give me a suggestion or advice.. this is my daily and im screwed w/o it...

thank you for reading thru my (long) cry for help
(i salute you)

95DxSi-R2

seems like you didn't put the dist. back on tdc. Put your engine at TDC #1. put your dist. rotor towards #1 on cap. i don't think that there is a gear on the bottom of the dist. is there? i've never taken one off a honda. gotta go to work, i'll help u later

DCStreetHtch

WOW dude

ok first of all you need to know what the order is for the ignition wires

it should be:

2 1
4 3

looking at it from the passenger side fender.

here is my old z6 for reference:


follow the wires carefully...


moving on, i have no idea why you removed the distributor but you did and i assume you didn't think to mark it so you know where to set it back to. SOOOO, you need a timing gun and you need to set it back to 15-17 degrees using the gun. some suggest tripping the ecu when doing timing for best accuracy but dont stress it.

if you thought you could do a clutch job and not bleed it when you were done you're truly a fool but its good you're learning the hard way. now bleed that ****. use two people to pump clutch and use a bleeder/fill the resevoir.

this should all work itself out

good luck

HatchEh2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95DxSi-R2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">seems like you didn't put the dist. back on tdc. Put your engine at TDC #1. put your dist. rotor towards #1 on cap. i don't think that there is a gear on the bottom of the dist. is there? i've never taken one off a honda. gotta go to work, i'll help u later</TD></TR></TABLE>
im not sure either, but ill let you know.

I was thinking that too, bringing it to TDC. if it works then ill take those shitty *** autozone plugs right the **** back and get my money refunded. if not.. then im just gonna sit in a corner and cry in front of the haynes manual after reading it from front to back...
Now i just hope bleeding the clutch will fix the problem i have with that... I wish i could've gave you my number or something so you could help me from work... DAMMIT lol

BTW: if you REALLY need to know, its the 'all-mighty' D15B7 (Tum-Tada-DA )

HatchEh2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EGStreetHtch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">WOW dude

ok first of all you need to know what the order is for the ignition wires

it should be:

2 1
4 3

looking at it from the passenger side fender.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Haynes is giving me this:

3 4
2 1 &lt;-rotate it 30' clockwise to get it in a diamond shape with the 1 on the bottom

then it tells me, "if the cap is marked than that is the 1st one"
and my cap is marked where the 2 would be.. meaning i have to start the 1st plug there and move clockwise...WTF??!!


the whole clutch deal is because im taking a breather... im GOING to bleed it.. definately. i just wanted to make sure that would be the only reason its like that.. this is my first time dissecting any engine bay like this.. i spent ALOT of time reading on H-T and speaking with mechanics along with almost memorizing the manuals.. other than that i had no hands on.. i think i did pretty well for just diving in head on and trying to knock a task out w/ the amount of determination i had.. **** i've been up for more than a day

the real test is my set up sitting in my garage which is a work in progress (built Z6 suckin boost)

thank you for the help so far

HatchEh2

up top people

senpai

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EGStreetHtch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
if you thought you could do a clutch job and not bleed it when you were done you're truly a fool </TD></TR></TABLE>

Why would you have to bleed the clutch? - unless you disconnected the slave cylinder line

Marauder

Shouldn't have listened to Haynes.....you didn't need to take the dizzy out to take the tranny out!

Also, by the sounds you discribed, I would assume that you have had piston to valve contact and you could have bent valves in your head now.

senpai

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EGStreetHtch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

it should be:

2 1
4 3

looking at it from the passenger side fender.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Don't listen to this guy - cylinder 1 is the one by the timing belt, stop giving "advice" plz

Marauder

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by senpai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Don't listen to this guy - cylinder 1 is the one by the timing belt, stop giving "advice" plz </TD></TR></TABLE>

He's talking about distributor placement.

cap looks like

DCStreetHtch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by senpai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Don't listen to this guy - cylinder 1 is the one by the timing belt, stop giving "advice" plz </TD></TR></TABLE>

EDIT: meh, **** it

HatchEh2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Marauder &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Shouldn't have listened to Haynes.....you didn't need to take the dizzy out to take the tranny out!

Also, by the sounds you discribed, I would assume that you have had piston to valve contact and you could have bent valves in your head now.</TD></TR></TABLE>

.....Ok, .. regardless, i still need this motor to run. And i really doubt that my piston smacked the valves. The cam timing is fine, i didnt mess with that. Its just the firing sequence thats fucked up. Regardless the piston/valve movement should remain the same.. in sync.

so then.. HOW do i fix this?

HatchEh2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HatchEh2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The cam timing is fine, i didnt mess with that. Its just the firing sequence thats fucked up. Regardless the piston/valve movement should remain the same.. in sync with one another.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Right?? Correct me if my theory is wrong please..


Modified by HatchEh2 at 10:55 PM 4/1/2005

99blackcivicSi

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95DxSi-R2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">seems like you didn't put the dist. back on tdc. Put your engine at TDC #1. put your dist. rotor towards #1 on cap. i don't think that there is a gear on the bottom of the dist. is there? i've never taken one off a honda. gotta go to work, i'll help u later</TD></TR></TABLE>

nope no gear dizzys for honda

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EGStreetHtch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

if you thought you could do a clutch job and not bleed it when you were done you're truly a fool but its good you're learning the hard way. now bleed that ****. use two people to pump clutch and use a bleeder/fill the resevoir.</TD></TR></TABLE>

wow so i guess all my training is a total lie huh? and i'm a fool too? i'll have to tell the Infiniti instructers they are wrong next time i go to school, and they need to relearn the basics LOL thanx for the laugh

Marauder

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HatchEh2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> And i really doubt that my piston smacked the valves. The cam timing is fine, i didnt mess with that. Its just the firing sequence thats fucked up. ?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, you're right, I had brain fade.....

Maybe just too much fighting between the cylinders since the firing order/timing is messed up.

HatchEh2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 99blackcivicSi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow so i guess all my training is a total lie huh? and i'm a fool too? i'll have to tell the Infiniti instructers they are wrong next time i go to school, and they need to relearn the basics LOL thanx for the laugh </TD></TR></TABLE>

so then if you really dont need to bleed the clutch than what could be my problem w/ it? could it be i over torqued the pressure plate bolts ??

The difference between the old clutch and the new clutch (visually) is little.. the old one turned out to be fine...but my clutch was starting to engage higher and higher up the pedal so thats what made me think it was wearing out (i had no clue how long the old one was in for, its the one that was in when i bought it, like 9-10months ago..) I figured (since the pedal has always been a little spongy) that i must have air in the line.. now w/o touching the fluid and keeping in mind that both discs were useable shouldnt the slave cylinder still disengage the clutch???

Iim gonna bleed it as soon as i finish setting the motor and dist. at TDC (TONIGHT) and ill let you know what happens.. I just want to make sure my motor will run before anything..
(thank god i didnt spend money on a b-series to screw around with.. now i can kill the b7 and gain a **** load of experience )

HatchEh2

alright well i just finished setting the dist. and #1 piston to TDC. i marked the cap and placed the wires in the order that EGStreetHtch advised. Now i crank it and nothing happens... just keeps cranking... a clean, knock-less, fast, crank.. well that leaves me with 2 conclusions:
1) It's either flooded REAL bad or
2)Theres no spark goin thru period...

Im leaning towards #2 because given the length of time I've spent cranking it.. it should have kicked over or atleast sound like its trying by now...

What could be causing no spark to go thru ANY of the plugs?? (keep in mind these wires are less than 24hours old and the plugs are bosch Platnium 4's that are only like 3 months old) Would it be that anti-seize grease/**** that suppose to keep the wires from getting stuck to the plugs?? ..cuz i might have too much in there...

<FONT SIZE="4">HELP!!!</FONT>

95DxSi-R2

sorry to say, get rid of those bosch platnums
get ngk's
how do u know u don't have spark? if u don't know, take any plug wire off the spark plug, take the spark plug out of the head, put the spark plug in the plug wire, wedge it against something metal, crank the engine and look for spark, don't touch the wire/plug while cranking. Your gonna have to have somebody crank it. having u jumper the starter relay would take to long to teach u. if u wanna know ask me. i doubt u lost spark enless u dropped the dist. are u sure it's at tdc #1?

HatchEh2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95DxSi-R2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sorry to say, get rid of those bosch platnums
get ngk's
how do u know u don't have spark? if u don't know, take any plug wire off the spark plug, take the spark plug out of the head, put the spark plug in the plug wire, wedge it against something metal, crank the engine and look for spark, don't touch the wire/plug while cranking. Your gonna have to have somebody crank it. having u jumper the starter relay would take to long to teach u. if u wanna know ask me. i doubt u lost spark enless u dropped the dist. are u sure it's at tdc #1?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well im not sure if it is [at TDC #1]
heres what i did:
i turned the crank pulley with the dist cap off, terminal #1 on the dist was marked, and the plugs were also out.
i looked inside the 1st cylinder and stopped it when i got to the top and the dist was pointing at the #1 terminal mark.. could it be the exhaust stroke? how do i make sure? how would you know its the compression stroke? not only that, if i try to take the dist off and rotate the coil to match the motors TDC it doesnt plug back into the camshaft end...!?

95DxSi-R2

the rotor turns clockwise when u crank right? you can't tell if it's on comp. or exhaust unless u pull the valve cover. u don't need to do that. u say it wouln't go into the cam. turn the rotor counterclockwise while installing the dist. into the cam. it will end up inbetween 3 and 1. thats fine, spark accurs before tdc. If it doesn't run right, then it's on the exhaust stroke. turn the crank one revolution and do it again. you'll be on comp. stroke.

HatchEh2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95DxSi-R2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> turn the crank one revolution and do it again. you'll be on comp. stroke.</TD></TR></TABLE>
when i turn the crank once more, do i do it with the dist mounted on to the cam? and is One revolution on the crank would be the same as one on the dist?

BTW:thanks for all your help so far man, i REALLY appreciate it..

f1z1c

95DxSi-R2

dammit i'm getting cluster fucked. if i was there it would be alot easier. i'm having a brain fart. before i said inbetween 3 and 1, it's 2 and 1, sorry. you can do it with the dist. in or out. 2 turns of the crank=1 revolution of the cam (dist.) I'm reading a manual i bought. it was for my d15 i had in my dx. it says the notch in the end of the dist. is offset to make 180 degree's off impossible. try it and see if it works

HatchEh2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95DxSi-R2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">dammit i'm getting cluster fucked. if i was there it would be alot easier. i'm having a brain fart. before i said inbetween 3 and 1, it's 2 and 1, sorry. you can do it with the dist. in or out. 2 turns of the crank=1 revolution of the cam (dist.) I'm reading a manual i bought. it was for my d15 i had in my dx. it says the notch in the end of the dist. is offset to make 180 degree's off impossible. try it and see if it works</TD></TR></TABLE>
WOOOOOOOW, lets rewind a bit...
the time i did what you told me (set to TDC) was right, it WAS at TDC after all. i know this because right before i was about to go mess with it again f1z1c posts up his pic.... everyone else gave me different patterns including the manual... so i said wtf, its worth a shot. <FONT SIZE="4">Lord be hold!</FONT> it kicked over so quick i thought it was haunted! I couldnt stop smiling
so i continued to run it until the fan came on to get the air bubbles outta the coolant and to make sure all systems were go.

THEN

my idle was flying off the wall!! ..but once i added more coolant.. it stopped...? weird

anyway, now im goin back in the garage to bleed that son of a bitch clutch and i pray that it works out when im done.

THanks for everything dude, i appreciate it. There needs to be more ppl like you on H-T

and f1z1c, thanks to you too, your like an unsung hero.. didnt say a damn word lol you just posted at the right time..


.....well well.. what a learning experience..

i ain't touchin that damn dist. when im changin a tranny ever AGAIN ::mumbles to self::

HalfAnP

Man, its ALWAYS something stupid. The firing order got me too about four monthsago when I finished my conversion. I went through everything else that could've possibly been wrong with that engine, and then my friend came over and figured it out in five minutes.

get a timing light on that engine as soon as possible though, you might as well learn how to adjust the timing!

Good luck!