Project89

hey guys im looking at picking up an older civic to put a turbo on for daily driver to replace driving around my twin turbo camaro, and 1 ton silverado which sucks on gas.

as somone who isnt to familiar with the different model civics is there a specific one i should be after engine/ trans wise. i know whatever i get has to be a 5 speed. no exceptions on that part

im not looking to build a 10/11/12 second racer here when i want to go fast ill hop in my twin turbo camaro or my single turbo v6 camaro rs.
this is just something to drive around for day to day stuff

as u can see in the pictures below i am very familiar with designing and tuning my own turbos systems

this is a system i built for a friends car

my v6 rs camaro with a garrett/fullrace t3/60-1



and my twin turbo iroc 355ci twin 57mm turbos + 100 shot of nitrous, im building a 434 ci small block with afr 245 heads and upgrading to twin 66mm turbos over the winter




as u can see the entire fab turbocharging and tuning apsect is covered
im just not familiar enough with the honda engines to know what to get and or stay away from. along what the limits of the stock engines are going to take power wise.

my idea is pretty simple find a nice clean driver with a 5 speed and drop a 50 trim hybrid on it , probably something along the lines of .48 turbine

any info,help and or pointers u guys have for me would be greatly apreciated

CO671

iTrader: (1)

I haven't turbod my car or have much experience, but here's what I learned based on reading, I wouldn't be surprised if I was wrong at some point.

If you're looking specifically for a Civic and don't want to do a motor swap, then a 5th generation (1992-1995) would be the quickest and cheapest way to get things done, maybe a hatchback and strip it because it'll be lighter than the other options.
Reasons:
1) OBD1 ECU for tuning
2) lightweight

If you get a 6th generation, like a nonvtec-D16Y7 powered CX/DX/LX (1996-2000) you'll have to change the intake manifold to a D16Y8 (2-wire IACV) or just buy a (heavier) vtec-D16Y8 powered EX Civic (coupes or sedans with sunroofs usually), and then spend another around $200 on the OBD1 ECU + OBD1 conversion harness (this obd1 conversion applies to the nonvtec D16Y7 CX/DX/LX models too of course)


However, these D-series engines connecting rods can't handle around 200hp safely boosted, or they'll be thrown. So block needs to be rebuilt, OBD1 ECU chipped for tuning, upgraded injectors and fuel pump. The rest should be universal parts I believe.


If you're interested in the D-series engine builds then go check D-series.org
If you'd be more interested in the DOHC B-series engines (can handle much more boost on a stock block) then you can look into motorswaps + rebuilds or just get an Integra and turbo it, or the 1999-2000 Honda Civic SI Coupe which comes with a B16 engine instead of a D-series like the rest of the Civics.

Project89

for tuning im going to use what i use on all my cars, a megasquirt system, which i will prolly setup lsx cop ignition system. i have no emmisions testing here so i have no reason to keep the stock ecm or emmisions equipment.

idealy id like to get something that i can pretty much drop a turbo on go, i dont wanna get involved in engine swaps or anything like that. at the same time it has to be reliable once its done.

i live 6500 ft above seal level so the first 3.5 psi of boost will only bring the engine back to what power it would make at sealevel. i plan on running it around on about 10 psi of boost which at sealevel would be 6-7 pounds, should be just enough to make it pretty fun to drive, but yet not push it to the point of it being on the edge of kicking rods or anything like that

CO671

iTrader: (1)

Well I respect your experience, I have no idea about tuning or much about PSI/atmospheric pressure or A/F ratio. I don't want to be feeding you the wrong information, so don't believe me fully. I doubt myself a bit.

If you don't want to deal with motor-swaps, or builds then a Civic isn't your ideal vehicle. Maybe Integra's would handle better, I believe on a stock engine they can hold around 250-300hp well tuned, whilst the Civic's only around 200hp well tuned. However, civic's are lighter by 200-400lbs.

Project89

im open to an integra, i just like some of the older civics i really like the hatchback model.

how hard is an engine swap in one of the older civics to one of the b series engines as it sounds the d series seems to be made out of glass for the most part.

is it a pretty easy drop in swap mechanically or do u have to change a bunch of stuff.

besdies liking the older civics they are very cheap to pick up around here versus the intergras and or newer civics

DeLSoLRo

D series=

Swap'DShuttle

If you're wanting a stock motor turbo build then D isn't for you. If you want a rebuilt block with a bit of insurance down south, a mild D is good for you. Bottom end, eagle rods and Vitaras. Vitaras are dirt cheap, you'll be around $500-$600 for the bottom end, plus gaskets, bearings, etc and machine work.

To compare

Mild build fresh and ready D series that can support roughly 500 whp For $1000 to $1500

Stock B series (xxx,xxx miles) that can handle 250-300 whp, will need headstuds/gaskets/timing kit etc $600-alot.

Your power goal is going to be a deciding factor in what motor you choose.

Project89

thanks

what would a stock d series engine make power wise with around 10 psi from a t3/t4 hybrid 50 trim ? actually i should say 7 psi cause at my altitude the first 3 psi bring me back to sea level.


Obviously im going to port the cyl head, prolly wont touch the cam though , though the cam company i use would grind me something for around 50-100 bucks


5-600 bucks for a decent bottom end i wont have to worry about is cheap, the v8 block i just bought for my camaro was 3,600 bucks just for the block and machine work alone, then again il be shooting for somewere around 1500+ hp with it since i will be running the x275 drag series with it

engine in it now will only make around 1000 crank hp with 21-23 psi and a 75 shot of nitrous


im not looking to make a ton of power at all i just figure 7 psi would make it a fun ride for everyday use, the twin turbo camaro i have is a fun car to drive everyday but it has way to much power to really enjoy it. ur pretty much on edge when driving it on the street


thanks for the info guys

Swap'DShuttle

If its gonna be daily 7 psi is the safe-ish limit depending on the motor. 10 is pushing it. Still though you want reliability you've gotta get insurance.

Lots of variables as anyone knows but if you ran 7-10psi you could see 180-230. General estimate.

Imo, build the bottom end though. Look up Vitara builds, cheap as hell, common, I mean, Vitara pistons teflon coated are like $125+shipping. The rods go for $3 bills give or take and shipping, then arp head studs and rod studs for a bill or two. Delta re-grind for a bill.

Then you could have a 300 whp+ Sohc that still gets 30+mpg if you pair it with the right snail and get a good tune. I've seen mid 300 whp sohcs getting 38mpg still.

Project89

thanks man this is just the info ive been looking for.
will deff go with a bottom end build then.now i just need to find the right car.
i use delta for all my cam needs, everyone of us guys on the v6 section of the camaro site go threw them for cams for our 2.8/3.1 and 3.4 engines

how strong is the 5 speed trans i actually have a nice black civic in mind thats for sale for 900 bucks in the next town over that im going to look at tomorrow

mayfly

the trans are not the greatest. but its all on how you drive it. i recommend getting lsd put in. it will help with traction and you wont be a one wheel wonder.

make sure you get some good trans fluid.

mayfly

also look into competition clutch for a new clutch. they make great products. and invest into some good solid motor mounts. or a 80a rating bushing

Project89

i wont be beatting on it to bad, and i deff wont be dragracing it so no stick tires or anything. mostly it will be ur typical get on it on the highway on ramp,maybe some spirited driving up in the mountian roads.

speedlimit on the highway here is 80mph

ill see on an lsd i dont want to spend a whole lot on the whole project ill have to see how bad traction is first once its done before i make that decision though.


i may as well ask how strong are the automatic transmissions ?

doood

iTrader: (1)

stay away from honda automatics if you want to make power

Hidenplanvew

D series motors are safe to around 220whp, Bseries is good to 350ish whp, D series trans are good for about 300whp and soft launches. Delta is well known in the D series Cams, they make a 272-2 thats suppose to be the Sh*t but a stock d seiers cam is good for around 400 whp. B series trans can take more beating and are very easy to swap into civics.

Vitara and FJ/ P2P0 rods are very nice and give you a compression of 8.5:1 depending on head. Vitar and eagle rods will put you at a compression of around 7.5:1 and makes it kind of a pain off boost and laggy.

Project89

thanks for that info most stuff i turbocharge i like around 9.0-9.5-1 cr

i went and looked at the civic yesterday body was mint but the interior wasnt all that good and the engine ran really rough.engine didnt bother me that much but the interior was to bad for how much money they wanted and the guy wouldnt budge on the price even with cash in hand

so the search continues

lol im also surpised noone busted out the mullet jokes after my first post lmao

Swap'DShuttle

Trans will hold power fine, as mentioned all in how you drive. Autotragics eat power and wont hold more than 200whp.

Stock D series are around 9.1- 9.3 comp ratio.

Besides plenty of bad info from the OP of this thread, there is lots of good info here.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced-induction-16/vitara-build-what-not-do-wont-work-1-5-engines-2808092/

jbpnoman

The engine should bother you. If you're wanting to do a build for boost, you want an engine that's running healthy to start. Also, remember that the EJ chassis' weighs a hell of a lot less than the muscle you're used to working on. My 98 sedan is putting 200 to the wheels, and can easily outrun the 4.6 GT mustang. I'd love to comment on the 5.0, but I haven't seen a stock one at the track to play with yet. For what you want, a D series motor with no bottom end work should be just fine. When you get the itch later on and want more power, then you can start playing with the rotating assembly and valvetrain.

B20DelSol

Not to be a downer here or a dick, but...

why don't just consider an impreza, evo, DSM, or eclipse if you want turbo? Just wondering.

Swap'DShuttle

I'm gonna guess because, if anything happens, you're not going to put one of those motors back together/replace for a grand, lol.

Project89

well i figured if i was going to get into the internals then engine wouldnt really matter as i could fix whatever was wrong/bad anyways

yeah the cars i usually deal with are pretty heavy my v6 camaro weighs in at 3422#'s with me in it , i could get it down to around 2,900 pretty easy but i dont want a gutted out car,the thing is dead reliable and comforrtable

i havent wieghed my twin turbo iroc yet but with the cage and everything im willing to bet its around 3,800-3,900 pounds but with 4 digit power levels wieght dont matter as much lol
my first pick was an eclipse or talon but in my area thes ecars are very hard to come by, and when u do find them they are the n/a models.

i had a 1st gen talon that was originally n/a and converted it to turbo many years ago. after doing that i would never convert one again, better off to just start with a turbo model

one of the junkyards i deal with has a civic im going to look at next week so we will see what happens

Project89

aint that the truth,

thats my me and a few of the other guys on the camaro forums love the v6 engines 2.8/3.1/3.4. if u hurt the engine u can pick up a good replacement form the junkyard pull the heads off push the pistons out and open the top ring gap up a lil bit and put it back together.then slap a delta 260 or 272 cam for 100 bucks in it and port the stock heads/intake and u have a engine that will make 400+hp with a turbo ( 60-1 or gt3582) and live

junkyards get around 50-200 bucks for a complete running engine, its one of the cheapest ways i know to have some turbocharged fun, the only downside is the rest of the driveline is crap so once u start making around 300whp u need to upgrade the trans/converter and rear end.

and since the v6 engine uses a different bellhousing then the v8 engines it takes a custom converter which is about 900 bucks for a decent one.but once u have all that its very cheap if u do blow up an angine


anyways enough about that since this is a honda forum lol ill update this when i go look at the other civic

jbpnoman

If that's how you feel about it, why not buy all the separate pieces and put together your own motor? Seriously, you have no way of knowing everything that might be wrong with a motor until you buy it and rip it apart. Bend rods, spun bearings, bent crank, scored/warped/cracked sleeves, warped deck...Too many risk factors.

Swap'DShuttle

You can always do a compression test on a used motor, in or out of the car. You'll know if it might run, and at least that it spins, lol. Honda people can be shy-sty. Guy tried to sell me an ED hatch with a ZC that was seized. Lol he said it was the starter, attempted push start said otherwise, haha.

VTECwalka

I have a 1994 civic ex coup. and Sense the day i bought it i love it so much that i just cant part with it. Comes with a D16z6 stock, light weights, And I get over 30 miles to the gallon. Now with a turbo and bigger injectors thats not going to be the case. but im sure it beats your twin. As stated before a little block work on that with injectors fuel pump and there ya have it.