Help! Or I shoot the f*****g car.
05-25-2005, 06:33 PM
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Help! Or I shoot the f*****g car.
I have a 99 Civic Si w/ JRSC and Hondata with a major drivability problem that I cannot solve.
Symptom: car starts and idles fine. Engine will not accept more than about 1/2" of gas pedal before the engine goes into this wild surging/loss of power. There is so little power that I cannot maintain speed in 4th gear. It will not climb the smallest hill. Basically, it's making about 2 hp. The supercharger makes boost (I can see about 5 psi on the gauge, but engine is surging wildly at this point so boost gauge needle is swinging around wildly). I am not sure if the surging happens as the engine enters boost, or is dependent upon position of gas pedal.
Things that I have replaced or checked:
NO CHECK ENGINE LIGHT, NO FLASHING ERROR LIGHT ON HONDATA S200 box, swapped map sensor with known good one, ignition coil, ignitor module, spark plugs (dark w/ carbon - I put in new ones), fuel filter, fuel pump, removed air filter, removed exhaust after header (fear of melted cat), checked/cleaned distributor cap and rotor, checked ignition timing, checked cam timing, checked for blown intake gaskets, checked for missing vacuum hoses, s/c belt is still there and working. Engine makes 220 psi compression on all 4.
None of this made one bit of difference.
I tried adjusting the fuel pressure regulator from 40 (normal) to 60 psi. No difference. I set it to 20 psi. No difference.
I datalogged the Hondata and did not notice anything unusual. MAP and throttle position sensor voltages change smoothly and normally as you rev the engine. Coolant temp is 180, right where it should be. There are NO hondata error codes.
I am not a datlogging or engine expert, so maybe I missed something with the datalogging.
I need ideas of what to check next !!! Help !
Symptom: car starts and idles fine. Engine will not accept more than about 1/2" of gas pedal before the engine goes into this wild surging/loss of power. There is so little power that I cannot maintain speed in 4th gear. It will not climb the smallest hill. Basically, it's making about 2 hp. The supercharger makes boost (I can see about 5 psi on the gauge, but engine is surging wildly at this point so boost gauge needle is swinging around wildly). I am not sure if the surging happens as the engine enters boost, or is dependent upon position of gas pedal.
Things that I have replaced or checked:
NO CHECK ENGINE LIGHT, NO FLASHING ERROR LIGHT ON HONDATA S200 box, swapped map sensor with known good one, ignition coil, ignitor module, spark plugs (dark w/ carbon - I put in new ones), fuel filter, fuel pump, removed air filter, removed exhaust after header (fear of melted cat), checked/cleaned distributor cap and rotor, checked ignition timing, checked cam timing, checked for blown intake gaskets, checked for missing vacuum hoses, s/c belt is still there and working. Engine makes 220 psi compression on all 4.
None of this made one bit of difference.
I tried adjusting the fuel pressure regulator from 40 (normal) to 60 psi. No difference. I set it to 20 psi. No difference.
I datalogged the Hondata and did not notice anything unusual. MAP and throttle position sensor voltages change smoothly and normally as you rev the engine. Coolant temp is 180, right where it should be. There are NO hondata error codes.
I am not a datlogging or engine expert, so maybe I missed something with the datalogging.
I need ideas of what to check next !!! Help !
05-25-2005, 07:20 PM
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Re: Help! Or I shoot the f*****g car. (paulbeezie)
Uh, what do you mean by "sweep the TPS"? That means no. I'll check the shop manual tomorrow and figure out how to do this.
I should have mentioned that the problem began with a very slight power loss while I was driving the car. It got worse and worse, and the car went slower and slower until I idled home in first gear.
I should have mentioned that the problem began with a very slight power loss while I was driving the car. It got worse and worse, and the car went slower and slower until I idled home in first gear.
05-26-2005, 02:09 AM
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Clutch and tranny both appear to be fine. You can let the clutch out and idle along in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd gear (not enough power to idle in 4th). Slowly roll onto the gas pedal - car accelerates a little then loses power and begins this wild surging thing.
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05-26-2005, 02:57 AM
#8
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Re: (gaydm.accord)
Sounds like possible TPS problem to me. Check that the voltage is .5v at closed throttle and ~4.5-5v at WOT, and be sure there is smooth transition from closed throttle to WOT.
05-26-2005, 03:12 AM
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I will check TPS signal tonight.
It's definitely not the MAP sensor - I swapped the MAP from a co-workers teg, no improvement, put the MAP back into his teg and he drove home with it.
I will double-check to see that MAP sensor signal is actually getting to the ECU, i.e. wiring (although I did this once before and it seemed fine).
It's definitely not the MAP sensor - I swapped the MAP from a co-workers teg, no improvement, put the MAP back into his teg and he drove home with it.
I will double-check to see that MAP sensor signal is actually getting to the ECU, i.e. wiring (although I did this once before and it seemed fine).
05-26-2005, 03:27 AM
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FPR?
Clogged injectors? Maybe a restriction in your fuel supply system?
Like other people have mentioned, check your TPS. Maybe swap yours out with the guy that let you borrow his other sensor?
Clogged injectors? Maybe a restriction in your fuel supply system?
Like other people have mentioned, check your TPS. Maybe swap yours out with the guy that let you borrow his other sensor?
05-27-2005, 03:00 AM
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tps voltage is .45 at idle and about 4.5 at wot. Car has gotten worse - now will barely start and struggles to idle. Would not hot restart. I checked the 3 distributor sensors and they have correct resistance at the ecu. I looked at the previous datalogging run (no more of those, since I can't even move down the driveway) and the MAP and TPS signals are fine. However, the ignition timing goes from 18 BTDC to less than zero. Yeah, it retards to zero. But there is no knock correction signal. WTF??? Is this a Hondata logging bug? Or did it really retard that much?
I think I still have a spare hondata EPROM which had the highway hesitation problem and I will try installing it tonight (if I can find it). Thanks to everybody for their help.
I think I still have a spare hondata EPROM which had the highway hesitation problem and I will try installing it tonight (if I can find it). Thanks to everybody for their help.
05-27-2005, 06:21 AM
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Re: (8000rpm)
1) For stating issues you are having, disconnect the purge valve solenoid. Refer to a helms manual on where this is so you can disconnect.
2) Did you relocate the map sensor to read boost?
3) Is your hondata setup with the boost option?
4) Are you using a wideband?
2) Did you relocate the map sensor to read boost?
3) Is your hondata setup with the boost option?
4) Are you using a wideband?
05-27-2005, 12:08 PM
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1. I'll try disconnecting the purge valve.
2. I'm using the JR adapter and hose which plumbs into the manifold .
3. Yes, boost. This Hondata was sold as bump up option for JRSC and came with pre-tuned chip. It has worked fine for past 1.5 years.
4. No. Plugs are black and sooty.
Note: In previous post I said datalogging shows timing goes to zero as I get on the gas. I checked Hondata site and found their sample timing map, which shows timing going to zero when in boost at low revs. So maybe timing is correct.
2. I'm using the JR adapter and hose which plumbs into the manifold .
3. Yes, boost. This Hondata was sold as bump up option for JRSC and came with pre-tuned chip. It has worked fine for past 1.5 years.
4. No. Plugs are black and sooty.
Note: In previous post I said datalogging shows timing goes to zero as I get on the gas. I checked Hondata site and found their sample timing map, which shows timing going to zero when in boost at low revs. So maybe timing is correct.
05-27-2005, 12:24 PM
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Re: Help! Or I shoot the f*****g car. (8000rpm)
sounds like a stupid question but what did you touch/change shourtly prior to this happening????????? did you get that bad 76 gas that has been on the news?
05-27-2005, 02:31 PM
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It's not a stupid question. I didn't touch/change anything, other than storing the car all winter.
Took it out of storage late spring. Drove fine first trip to store. 2nd trip to store (same day), it seemed down on power. Third trip to store it barely got me home. I've been screwing with it ever since and getting pretty frustrated. Every time I start it, the engine has less and less power. Now it barely starts. It's just fading away....
No, I don't see a mouse nest anywhere, including up the tailpipe, and there are no chew parks on the wiring (that I can see, anyway).
It runs on Sunoco 94 and when it goes to the track it gets 20% VP race fuel added to the Sunoco. I was worried that the VP had attacked the fuel pump, fuel filter, or regulator - so I replaced or checked all of those. Pressure is 40 psi, measured at the fuel filter output, which is the inlet end of the fuel rail. I haven't pulled the injectors yet, but they are the RC440's, and have only been in the car for 1-1/2 years - so I find it hard to believe they would be plugged. Or maybe they are. Another thing to check.
By the way, with sparkplugs removed, it can be turned over easily with a ratchet on the crank pulley bolt, so the bearings arent bound up or anything.
To answer other question, yes I pulled cam cover and checked cam timing - it is dead on per factory shop manual.
I still need to try the chip swap and plug purge system. Will report back tomorrow.
Took it out of storage late spring. Drove fine first trip to store. 2nd trip to store (same day), it seemed down on power. Third trip to store it barely got me home. I've been screwing with it ever since and getting pretty frustrated. Every time I start it, the engine has less and less power. Now it barely starts. It's just fading away....
No, I don't see a mouse nest anywhere, including up the tailpipe, and there are no chew parks on the wiring (that I can see, anyway).
It runs on Sunoco 94 and when it goes to the track it gets 20% VP race fuel added to the Sunoco. I was worried that the VP had attacked the fuel pump, fuel filter, or regulator - so I replaced or checked all of those. Pressure is 40 psi, measured at the fuel filter output, which is the inlet end of the fuel rail. I haven't pulled the injectors yet, but they are the RC440's, and have only been in the car for 1-1/2 years - so I find it hard to believe they would be plugged. Or maybe they are. Another thing to check.
By the way, with sparkplugs removed, it can be turned over easily with a ratchet on the crank pulley bolt, so the bearings arent bound up or anything.
To answer other question, yes I pulled cam cover and checked cam timing - it is dead on per factory shop manual.
I still need to try the chip swap and plug purge system. Will report back tomorrow.
05-27-2005, 02:53 PM
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Re: Help! Or I shoot the f*****g car. (8000rpm)
my friend had a similar problem, no CEL's nothing to show a sign of what was going on...it turned out that his ecu was fried but still ran other things...it was f*ckin weird... 
05-27-2005, 04:17 PM
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Re: Help! Or I shoot the f*****g car. (oreozzz)
i know this isn't the greatest advise, but ide be currious to put a stock ECU back in your car, and let it idle, and maybe put around the block. ive driven my SOHC turbo on stock maps, just never boosted it 100% or really got into it.
5 psi isn't alot, but ide be currious to see what happens.
5 psi isn't alot, but ide be currious to see what happens.
05-27-2005, 05:40 PM
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Re: Help! Or I shoot the f*****g car. (Zeus Zore)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Zeus Zore »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">try and get a compresion test !! first thing !.. are you smoking black !?!..
any vacuum leaks ??</TD></TR></TABLE>
He did that. He said he gets 220 accross all 4 cylinders. Very healthy motor.
I'd say it's down to some kind of sensor problem now. Mechanically everything seems to be fine from what you're telling us. The one thing you haven't tried yet that a few couple people have suggested so far is pulling the hondata and trying a stock ECU. See how that runs.
any vacuum leaks ??</TD></TR></TABLE>
He did that. He said he gets 220 accross all 4 cylinders. Very healthy motor.
I'd say it's down to some kind of sensor problem now. Mechanically everything seems to be fine from what you're telling us. The one thing you haven't tried yet that a few couple people have suggested so far is pulling the hondata and trying a stock ECU. See how that runs.
05-27-2005, 06:04 PM
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Re: Help! Or I shoot the f*****g car. (8000rpm)
ya man it sounds like ur ecu is fried or wasnt programed right and since ur fuel injectors are good and spark plugs are good thats what it sounds like but maybe by some chance ur distrubutor is off or maybe u got water in the motor and rusted just throwing out ideas man cuz it sounds like its ur ecu though how bout ur throttle body is that all good? maybe sensor is out but see if it was ur check engine light would go on so maybe its ur ecu good luck though man 
