alacard

Basically this is a wire tuck gone seriously, seriously, wrong. Car is a 99 hatch and engine is an obd2 gsr. Ecu is an obd1 chipped and tuned. After a lot of issues, the wiring finally seems to be correct (here is the older thread that has my wiring problems: https://honda-tech.com/forums/tech-misc-15/what-could-cause-wires-not-get-sufficient-power-after-wire-tuck-2455064/ ). The main thing was that 2 pins on the driver's side shock tower engine bay plug were switched. After switching those to the proper positions, my fuel pump will not stop pumping when I turn the key to II. Obviously the car will also not start, it gives a locking up noise and won't do anything. Upon looking at the throttle body, I noticed that fuel was puddled there. I pushed the valve open, and fuel flowed out. What could be causing the fuel pump to not stop priming?

Here's a video of what happens when I try to start it:
http://s10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...t=DSCN1023.flv

and of the gas:
http://s10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...t=DSCN1024.flv

z6hatchboy

main relay?

alacard

Its good. Checked with the helms and also used a different-sometimes-working relay.

alacard

Stock 99 y7 ecu made the fuel pump prime properly. Haven't gotten a chance to try and start it with that ecu yet though because the cylinders are still flooded. Also one of the four cylinders did not have gas in it, while the others were completely flooded. Not sure what this could mean

HondachrisEJ1

1. change the ecu with a freind see if it will work in another car or if it has the same problems. (bad chip programming)

2. Put a fuel Pressure gauge and check to see the pressure is proper.(too much pressure may force feed to much fuel, and or lock it up.)

3. Check impedance on each injector. (bad injector...)

4. clean injector or have them flow tested. (bad atomization )

fastrc2

ok this is going wrong diagnosis, i dont care if the pump is running al of the time, it doesnt force fuel into the cylenders, if you take a normal car, and shut it off and put a battery straight to the fuel pump on any injected car, and let it run the pump i dont care if it was all night, and then hooked the pump back to the car, and tryued to start it, the car would be fine, actually it would just filter the fuel since its a recirculating system. the injectors being constantly open witht he pump would fill the intake with fuel however, so you gave a ground source going tot he inejctors, since they are ground controllled, so they are getting wired wrong, and the pump is the least of your worries. get the fuel out, and change the opil, since it will bleed past the rings and dissolve the oil and washout the bearings. get the fuel out, and locate each injectors signal wire from the ecm and determin if the ground is constantly there fromt he ecm or if the harness is shorted/cut/pinched/mispinned.

alacard

Because the y7 ecu made the fuel pump stop priming when it was supposed to, I think the other ecu may have been damaged somehow during the troubleshooting process. I didn't attempt to start the car with the y7 ecu yet because there was still fuel in the cylinders. I'm going to let it evaporate tonight and try it tomorrow. Should I change the oil prior to attempting to start it?

The_Honda_Guy

If there was fuel in the cylinders you can simply pull the plugs and disable the ignition and crank it over and blow the fuel out of the cylinders. Otherwise just leave the plugs in and disable the fuel and crank it over until you unflood it. How old is the oil in there and how much fuel are we talking sitting in the cylinders?

alacard

Oil was due for a change...I was just trying to get the engine running first. We are talking about quite a bit of gas. But for whatever reason there is only gas in 3 of the 4 cylinders...Which makes me a little concerned. But if the ecu is at fault, I'm hoping that is what caused the injectors to function wrong (including the idea that only 3 of them squirted constantly).

The_Honda_Guy

Yea, change the oil definitely then. If you diluted the oil a decent amount and it's old oil then you should definitely change it before trying to start it back up. Would suck if you got it running with the old oil and spun a bearing because the of the fuel thinning the oil down.

alacard

Yeah, I pulled the dipstick out and that oil just seemed thin and smelled like straight gasoline. So I'm going to change the oil tomorrow morning and then try it out.

alacard

Changed the oil, made sure there wasn't fuel in the cylinders still, went to fire it up...same thing. It does that locking noise that is in the first video. I am completely out of ideas and almost ready to get out of the Honda game at this point. Anyone have ideas? What could cause an engine to lock up like that and not even crank.

drSquish

3 out of 4 cylinders probably means you have a plugged injector. Since your ECU was the culprit I'd say it wasn't suppling fuel to all of the cylinders either.

Marauder

A fuel pump and/or injector problem would not cause the motor to lock up, must have a starting issue, cause the starter will turn over the engine no matter what else happens.

fastrc2

yes a fuel issue will, he said he looked into the intake and found it was full of fuel, and that means the cylender is hydro locked, a starter cant turn that, which is the reason why the hyraulics on a backhoe can tear a house down, because fluid is not compressible. he needs to find out why the injectors are allowing the fuel out all of the time, the first step would be remove the rail, with the supply fuel connected, and key up the car to key position 2 to see which of any injectors are spraying, then unplug it from the ECM to see if it stops, to alert you if it is being told electrrically to open, or if the injector is stuck open phyisically

Marauder

hydrolocked on fuel??

damn, i'd say put the wrench down and find a technician to work on the car. That's a new one for me!

alacard

The fuel problem seemed to be fixed with a different ecu. With the different ecu, the fuel pump only primed for a few seconds and then shut off like it should. Also after attempting to start it a few times, I pulled a spark plug out to make sure the cylinders weren't being flooded and I did not see any puddles of fuel.

So what seems to be my only problem at this moment is that locking up I am talking about. Is that a symptom of a bad starter?? I have never dealt with starting issues, so I don't even know the troubleshooting methods.

fastrc2

so when you try to start it now, it still seems the engine is locked up? try it with the headlights, when the starter clicks, is there a noticable dim of the headlights? this would indicate that the engine is holding back the starter, causaeing a huge current draw. if this is the case, remove the plugs, and try again, if in doubt, try to turn the engine over manually to see if it is seized/ hydrolocked. if it turns and the starter goes click, but the headlights dont dim, then its likely the contacts of the starter solenoid are burnt up.

alacard

It seems to have a large draw of power when it is locked up, but I haven't done the headlight thing. I'll try that tomorrow. After that you said to try starting the car with the spark plugs pulled out? To turn it manually I would take off the driver's side wheel and take a wrench to the crank bolt?

Luserkid

All you had to do was find your power source to the ecu. Originally before i left (I took the drive 2 hours out to do the tuck, couldnt finish in time but got the motor working). Problem with the motor was that the ecu was only getting 5v of power instead of its 12. I told Dariel to look for the 12 and put it to the ecu. Before i left i put straight batt power to the ecu and she started fine. Now your running into all this changing wires that i cant help you from 2 hours away. That video that you put is to short to really see whats going on. All i got is you pointing at the alternator and a noise for 4 seconds, is that the video?

alacard

The wiring was obviously incorrect at the point when those wires weren't getting power. After switching the engine harness and having the same problem, that only narrowed it down to the pins of the driver's side shock tower plug and two fender plugs. After comparing all of these plugs to a stock, running civic. I found that two pins on the driver's shock tower, and two pins on the driver's fender plugs had been switched. The driver's fender pins fixed my headlight problem, and the two on the driver's shock tower plug probably fixed our original problem but because of my ecu, brought about the constant fuel pump priming problem which was fixed with a different ecu. (I'm assuming I fried my ecu during the original troubleshooting I was spending all of my days off doing. I popped a few fuses during this time, so I could've damaged the ecu). Now the wiring should all be correct. New engine harness, driver's shock tower plug is exact same as a stock running civic, driver's fender plug is same as stock running civic, and the pass. fender plug is the same as a stock running civic. Unless wiring is damaged through the firewall from the fuse box to the interior harness or something, I can't imagine any wiring being incorrect at this point.

Despite any of that bullshit, could the attempting to start with all that gasoline in the cylinders have blown the starter because it was trying to move all that liquid?

alacard

up^

fastrc2

well if the lights dim, meaning there is a huge draw of power, i doubt that the staretd is fried, its definatly not good for it and definatly chopped a lot of life out of it, and its the worst thing to do to it, but as long as you didnt sit there and hold it in start for a while or just keep trying, i think itll pull through for now at least. and yes, pull the plugs, look in there for puddled fuel, if you see a puddle, turn the engine over using the crank bolt, be careful i think some are reverse thread, so when you try to turm the engine, the bolt may come free, and dont forget they run counter clockwise! maybe they arent reverse thread, i forget. either way, get the fuel out of the intake, and the engine, and change the oil and filter.

alacard

Starter was changed, still locks up when I try to start it. Should I still try and manually turn it?

alacard

Crank spins pretty freely when cranked manually. Again, I am left with no idea as to what is wrong...