Hi, I am new here... I have used many forums in the past and hope to be just as welcome here!!!

ok so I have a 95 honda civic hatch
it has a fresh hydro b16 tranny mated to a B18B
Have PR4 ecu
Factory harness

Pulled the B18a and dropped in a fresh B18B

The issue is Crank, No start, NO SPARK.... THE TACH IS NOT MOVING when cranking

TIMING IS PERFECT (new belt and w/p), Brand spaking new OE dizzy, new plugs/wires, good signal from ecu, good grounds, good fuel pressure, new injectors, good compression...

Upon inspection of dizzy I recieve signal to the 2 wire plug (proper voltage) and signal to the 8 wire plug (although there is only 7 actual wires)... removed cap to test the 2 wires going to the Ignition coil and there was perfect resistance .7ohms... I did not expect there to be any issues with the dizzy b/c it is new...

BTW the dizzy was sourced from a 1993 acura integra (new)

I tested the resistance AT THE ECU from pins B15 and B16 (Crank) B13 and B14 (TDC) and B11 and B12 (CYL) with perfect readings....

A friend allowed me to sub in a known good ECU (PR4) from a 1993 integra (MT) with still a crank NO START condition...

I have tested for open wires for the entire ignition system and have found none

I have tested and replaced every fuse and relay

I even warrent. my new dizzy for another just to see if this was the problem...

The grounds on the Tstat are fine

The car has 4 other grounds which are all hooked up

I dont know how I am overlooking something, but I must be because this is BS!!


so i am bangin my head now...

wtf...

this just reminds me of having all right stuff to make a great pizza and it still comes out like ****....


HELP please

 

Does the fuel pump prime?

When you turn the key to ON(II), does the CEL remain on steady or does it turn on and then off after 2 seconds?

 

I know you tested the crap out of the dizzy, but did you actually check to make sure the plugs were getting good spark? when all the "big tests" are ok... it still a good idea to check the basic ones just to be sure

 

new cap and rotor with the dizzy?
i remember my dizzy came just the distributor, no cap and rotor. could be your prob

EDIT: I've heard of cam/crank sensors stopping from sparking. Check this?
Other than that, if your dizzy is working properly and getting necessary signals/voltage then just work your way from there. rotor, cap, wires, plug tubes, plugs. wutwutinthebutt

 

Yes pump primes...
Relay Clicks after 2-3 seconds
basics covered here lol....

however

using a test light i went through the fuse block under dash....

Found no power going to fuse #18 which is the fuse for the ECU, however the ECU is powering up... both fuse 12 and 24 underdash get good power and ground...

Underhood fuses are fine...

I have a factory book for the car so I can see exactly whats going on when the particular circuit in question doesnt get power... and its symptoms would be a dead tach ondash, and poor crank signal to ECU, then ecu kills spark....

I have to trace the dead circuit tomm when its light out...

I hope this fixes this...

=(

 

If neither top test tab of fuse 18 has battery voltage with the key in ON(III), then the Blk/Red wire running between the starter cut relay and dash fuse box or the dash fuse box is bad.

This problem also predicts that you would be able to push start the car (i.e., bypass the need for ON(III) cranking to start engine).

 

ok so this is what i did today..

I removed the starter cut relay and jumperd the plug, black/white wire to black/red wire, .. with this condition the clutch pedal did not have to be pressed due to lack of relay,.... while i turned key to 3 to start i held test light to fuse 18 and it did infact recieve power, and since the main relay is clicking and the CEL goes on and off properly now again im stumped....

me finding no power going to fuse 18 has nothing to do with my problem...
i tested the fuse wrong, its a key on in position 3 load....

so, back to start again..... RAWRRRR

Crank, no start no spark......

power going to dizzy, new dizzy...

why would i not have ****in spark......

 

I suspected that you might have tested fuse 18 in ON(II) rather than ON(III), although I hoped this wasn't true.

1) With the distributor cap removed, the distributor connectors plugged in, and the key in ON(II), do you measure battery voltage to body ground at the Blk/Yel wire attached to the coil and the ICM? What voltage to body ground do you measure at the Yel/Grn wire attached to the ICM?

2) Have you checked the Yel/Grn wire for a short to ground and for an open?

3) Have you resistance tested the coil and had an auto parts store test the ICM?

4) Have you tried swapping in a known good ECU?

 

The Blk/Yel wire is fine, Good Bat voltage at Coil

ICM is fine

Want to talk more about the Yel/Grn wire
I tested for open at a few spots.
First from dizzy plug to plug by firewall, result good wire 3 ohms
Second from Firewall plug to ECU ( where I got strayed)
Book says Yel/Grn turns into 2 Red/Grn wires at ECU, I can only find one, I can however find 2 Yel/Grn Wires..
I tested all of them to see if I would get results.. and I didnt
Or I did get results and one of the wires tested is actually the correct wire, and it was infact open.

My question to you is what is the exact pin I should be testing at ECU... You should also know that before the swap there was a fully functional B18a RUNNING in this chassies with no problems.. I made 0 changes to the harness/connectors...

Am I looking for a Red/Green wire or Yel/Grn at ECU?

What does this Wire actually do, (5v refrence? Ground?) what kind of signal am I looking for??

If in fact this wire is the problem would it disable spark thru the ignitor??
Would the tach also not work??

Walk me through the next part if you could be soo kind... Im really getting fed up with the car, it was absolutely fine before the swap.. (new engine compression perfect btw)

NO SPARK, No Tach movement, NO Go for the sad green EG in my driveway...

thanks for the continued help

btw, ecu is new.. i have a few known good ecu next to me all are good.....

 

Did you resistance test the coil?

Did you measure voltage to body ground at this wire where it connects to the ICM?

The Yel/Grn wire attached to the igniter unit runs to 14P connectors C103/C112. At this junction connector, the wire changes into a Red/Grn wire that runs to ECU pins A21 and A22 (see diagram below). Check continuity between the Yel/Grn at the igniter unit and terminals A21 and A22. Also check for a short in this wire.




The ECU via the Yel/Grn (Red/Grn) wire provides ground for voltage at the igniter unit. (That's why I want you to measure voltage at this wire attached to the igniter unit.) When voltage at the igniter unit is grounded by the ECU, the igniter unit then triggers the coil to release its high voltage spark to the spark plug. Here's a diagram of the events:

CKP sensor ---> ECU ----> igniter unit ---> coil ---> spark to spark plug

Yes. If there is an open or short in the Yel/Grn wire, spark will be disabled and the tach will not work.

As I mentioned above:

-resistance test the coil
-measure voltage at the Yel/Grn wire attached to the igniter uniter
-check for a short or open in the Yel/Grn-Red/Grn wire between the igniter unit and the ECU connector terminals A21 and A22.

 

Great diagram BTW..

Coil is good, everything inside the dizzy is fine, I literally have 3 brand new OE dizzys

I removed the Cap and tested the Yel/Grn wire at the screw where it mates to the Coil. I tested to body ground.. Battery voltage was observed. (11.95v)

The Yel/Grn at the Ignitor show's 11.25-11.3v IS THIS OUT OF SPEC? I did however see small movements twards battery voltage..

I only have ONE Red/Grn wire going to ECU and its in PIN# A21.. I realize both my book and yours say there is 2, but im tellin ya I only have one, and have never had a poor running issue with this car....

I just cant get over why im tracing wires.. 10:02 monday morning I removed a running b18a and by 12 there was a B18b in its place...

I am now kicking myself for ever pulling the engine.. I didnt fold the harness, I simply unclipped everything and lifted the car leaving an engine on the ground...

 

There should not be a Yel/Grn wire attached to the coil. Double check that.

This is fine.

The Phearable site says that ECU A22 is depinned when using an OBD1 AEM EMS. I also see that PR4 ECUs can be OBD0 or OBD2. Can I presume you have an OBD2 ECU?

As you know, you need to avoid making any assumptions when troubleshooting a problem. Assume a friend who needs help brought you this car. Troubleshoot the problem as though you know nothing about it. Based on information you have provided, the next step is to test the Yel/Grn-Red/Grn wire for a short or open between the igniter unit and ECU A21.

If you crank the engine for 30 seconds, are any CEL codes set?

Do the rocker arms move when you crank the engine?

 

No CEL set... I have cranked the engine for way more then that, and also tried to push start....

Rocker arms move perfectly, actually I ajus. valve lash and replaced the Tbelt wpump tensioner and spring.... the engine is tight, it sounds great when you crank it, i cant wait for it to fire up...

I apoligize if i sounded lame in the last post, im just spinning my tires on this one,.... I fix 6-10 cars a day at work and turn 55-65 hrs a week, now nobodys perfect and i learn new things every day (which is a huge + having a job like this) however this is such a simple system compaired to the benz cars I work on now..

There are 2 wires that attach to coil, the top wire (at least on mine) is Yel/Grn and is held down by a screw (a very small one) and the bottom wire is like black/white or black/yellow and there small wires.. the Yel/Grn wire goes from the Ignitor and it attaches with a female slide prong and it simply slides onto the male prong on the ignitor, the wire is mabie 2 inches long...

My ECU is a OBD1 PR4 that was pulled from a 93 ls mt teg... i have 3 other OBD1 ECU's 2 more PR4 and one P75.... still crank no start...

The factory Civic harness plugs flawlessly into the dizzy and the ECU so i know its correct..

The Yel/Grn to Red/Grn is fine from dizzy to ECU....

wtf mate =(

Do you know of any Tuneing shops in the Miami/Hollywood area that could help... I really need my whip....

 

Below shows the wires attached to the coil and igniter unit in an OBD1 distributor. Maybe the Yel/Grn wire is the same as the Wht/Blu wire below? This is different than the Yel/Grn wire attached the igniter unit, right?







You also may want to do these input tests:



Hmmm...the Phearable site lists only OBD0 and OBD2 PR4 ECUs.

What tests did you do? Did you test for both a short and open?

 

Ok, I believe your right.... I was under the impression that OBD1 tegs were from 1990-1995 and they could run PR4 or P75,.....

My ECU Number is 37820-PR4-L11 and the tag number below is 492-103182

so doing some google search leads me to believe that its OBD0.. however my B18a was ran by a PR4 (actual number off ECU 37820-PR4-A11 below number 490-136033)

My harness plugs into the ECU without issue, and the Dizzy Plugs into the harness without issue...

 

95 EG chassies+B18a+PR4-A11 = running without issue, no CEL
95 EG chassies+B18b(from94teg)= no start =(

However the HEAD that was attached to my B18a was a P75 head (ran by PR4), the stamp on my head with the new engine (B18b) is PR4... so one would assume that the ECU that I got would be fine...

Every test you have supplied me with yelds good results...

The internals of the dizzy are fine. and the wires running to the components in the dizzy are fine...

The car was never ran with AMS EMS, my uncle owned the car from day 1, and sold it to me when his engine lost compression in number 2 cyl... Thats when I swapped the b18a and drove it for the last 4 years....

MY ECU HAS OBD1 PLUGS AND MY CIVIC IS OBD1 WITH OBD1 PLUGS THAT FIT INTO MY ECU (example http://hondata.com/techecuid.html my ecu has obd1 plugs and its a PR4!) .... MY ENGINE IS A OBD1 B18B1 AND I SOURCED MY DIZZY FROM A OBD1 INTEGRA... where did I go wrong?

I have a great turblow kit that was pulled off of a wrecked teg (1993) and the teg made 270whp with 245wtq... Boy o boy id like to get this problem solved, I hate rollerblading everywhere.

 

 

My Yel/Grn wire goes from the dizzy plug to the ignitor (like seen in pic) then I have a Yel/Grn wire *instead of the wht/blu wire in the pic* I tested the wire going to the Ignitor and from the ignitor to the coil, bat voltage observed at both connections....

 

If I am recieving Bat voltage to the wire then could I assume that the wire is fine from ECU to Dizzy?

as I mentioned in a previous post, the Yel/Grn wire Ohm tested fine from dizzy to connector C103/C212... then I tested the Red/Grn wire from connector C212 to Red/Grn wire at A21.. My meter tested like the wire was OPEN because it did not read any resistance, I am going to cut the wire and put a jumper wire in its place to go to pin A21 today... but I am now thinking that mabie my test was poor on Red/Grn wire because I am infact getting Voltage at the dizzy where that wire comes from.....

(SOME TIME LATER):
JUMPED A21 to Dizzy Yel/Grn

I ran a new fresh wire from ECU A21 to Dizzy plug.... CRANK NO START no tach signal...

where next? I elimated the wire in question and still aint got ****

 

If the connector sockets in your ECUs are identical to those of an OBD1 ECU (click here), then your PR4 ECU is OBD1.

What I am now wondering is whether, for some reason, the B18A ECU required only A21 to be pinned to the igniter unit. You may want to try pinning your Yel/Grn-Red/Grn wire to both A21 and A22.

 

as soon as the sun starts to shine tom. I will be working on it...

I hope that mabie you could check in on this particular thread tommorow often, as I will be asking quite a few questions...

I am also intrested in the "blue" wire that exits the dizzy, the one controling tach signal...

Why would the ECU require only 1 pin for a (stock d series) then a true obd0 b18a series, and then not run a b18b, which i dont care what way you shake it its the same damn engine as the b18a and even the obd1 crv b20's, same ****...

Thanks in advanced for the continued help, you have been a insanely valueable source, as a matter of fact when I worked for honda and had the "hondatech" line (or as i call it, dial a joe) there service was not nearly as detailed not to mention the lack of paitence some of the guys had... :tup: way up to honda-tech

now lets get this pos to start!!

 

then how did you say that PR4 were only OBD0 and 2?? just wondering.

 

From the information posted on the Phearable site. If your PR4 is clearly OBD1, then the Phearable PR4 ECU information is either incomplete or incorrect.

 

Not sure what your interest is. It's only for the tach signal. Sometimes the lack of a tach signal indicates a bad igniter unit.

I really don't have a good answer, but your B18A and B18B PR4 ECUs are different. In addition, MOST OBD1 ECUs do require A21 and A22 to be wired to the igniter unit.