SCREWYFITS

Hello all,

I just got a 96 civic cx hatch and am putting a lil time in on it and don't want to go race or anything like that, just want a solid sports car to drive a canyon with a grin...

so far I've put a short shifter, cold air, a header (header back exhaust next) and 17" with 40 series... ooh, also engine mount stuffers (energy suspension)...

looking to get advice on a real quiet exhaust (probably not very performance oriented) also I'm putting together a list to do a rear disc conversion, should I put shocks or just get a slightly lowering springs (then would I have to worry about camber/caster issues)...

also would like a lil more power without any huge engine work, any suggestions, like adj. timing belt gears/wheel or a cam (not too sure of the bolt on mods yet)...

any thoughts on tower braces the lowers and uppers, worth it or not... before or after other parts? and how about sway bars?

Thanx Dirk

alphalanos

you wont get anything out of the y7 engine without turbo. If you want an exhaust the Apexi WS2 is perfect, quiet but noticeable. although its a waste on a y7.

rear disc is nice but the money could be spent elsewhere, upgrade the fronts with a bigger OEM setup (search HT for brake writeups) and bigger master cylinder. Depending how big you go you might need to do a rear disc anyway to keep it proportional.

You have some choices for suspension, but on a budget I would get Koni Yellows, followed by springs of your choice. Ground Control sleeves are good, but there are many other springs available if you dont need adjustability.

get a rear swaybar, stock Civic Type R is 22mm. Recommend using some type of subframe reinforcement like ASR brace.

SCREWYFITS

Right on mang, thanx for the advice, the turbo may be an option down the road, wasn't really looking for that kind of power...

as far as the rear upgrade I'm looking at a complete 01 integra disc conversion for 225 and hope to haggle him down to 200... that includes per the ad:
"Complete Front disc brakes complete arm with good pads and rotors
Complete Rear disc brakes complete with good pads and rotors
Complete ebrake system
Master cylinder
integra proper proportioning valve"
any advice or opinion on that, good deal bad deal?

suspension not so much on a budget just I don't need anything overboard in that I'm not gonna race just like to handle like a dream without all the harsh downfalls of like a race suspension, so them yellows and springs might do the job...

and i'll start looking for a sway bar, KOOL...

thanx again, Dirk

big-cat

I assume this is your DD? I would do alot of suspension work. you have curvy roads there so you can have some fun with that. depending on emissions I would atleast save up and swap a b-series in there. they can be had for cheap. keep it N/A if you are just doing mountain runs. if you were doing straight pulls I would say boost but I assume you are a little younger and n/a is just a little more controlled power for something like that.

Deetz

Check out a build thread i made on a 1996 CX Hatch, car was a lot of fun!!

https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...highlight=b20z

SCREWYFITS

@ big cat, thanx for the compliment, I'm 40 years young, going on 18... LOL... and yes it's a DD...
I bought the full disc conversion and it sounds like it comes with a sway bar also, sweet...

I've got plenty of mechanics skills, I've pitted on a NASCAR team on a regional (southwest) level for a good 7-8 years and understand a lot about engines and suspension, but not familiar with these lil Hondas an have heard there plenty of mods to be had... I'm just trying to make it a great DD and not a race car, that's like me buying a truck load of tampons, I just cant use them... LOL...

and you all are giving great advice and I appreciate it, for the price is it better to run the turbo kit or a B swap? and how reliable is the Turbo kits? I've heard they've come a long way...

@ Deetz, I'm gonna go check out your link now...

Thanx Gents!!!

big-cat

alright well in that case you are definitely going to have to swap a b20 or a K-series or an H22. something with little bigger displacement, higher flowing head and its plenty quick stock, you will get bored with the d16, its just to slow.

Or boost the stock single cam. you will have to do your research but I assume you know how a turbo works and you will need to find a tuner or a friend that knows how to tune. just give him the software and let him tune it.

idk to much about suspension but I do know our CX's dont come with front or rear sway bar. and those will help alot. personally I want Ground Control coil overs with a Koni Yellow spring.

starion88esir

If you like to take curves and corners at speed, definately make the investment to stiffen the chassis. My cx flexed so much that even the cheap knock off upper strut bar made a huge noticable difference. I also lowered it an inch and a half which also helps tremendously with corner carving. After I install the rear disc brake set up I bought I'm going to search for a c-pillar bar and sway bars.

calvinhuu00EK

k20 man all the way E King

hOnda_hiEn

he doesnt want a race car.. lol.. id say go with an LS motor.. im sure youd be happy with it.. and its cheap..

SCREWYFITS

@ big-cat I just read Deetz's build with the B20 and that seemed like too much for what I need, I'd like to keep the rubber to the ground, maybe a B18 or the Turbo set up would be good, hate to pull a perfectly good motor out just to throw another in, but I see that is what is being done, does the B18 drop in like the B20? maybe the B20 is the way to go, I just don't want it to be silly sick power, just don't need it... it does drop in real nice though... maybe I can de-tune it a tad to keep the rubber stuck...

@starion88esir, I hear ya and I think your right, might have to add the support... should that be done pre shocks and lowering springs or after? I hope this disc swap comes with the sway bar...

THANX GENTS this is great info and helping me alot in making my decisions, I'll try and post some pics soon... It has a new front end on it as someone crashed it, but I have a buddy helping me square it up better then the *** that did it b4 I bought it... I'm gonna go flat black or flat midnight blue so I can keep it a lil more stealth... I got some 17" 7 spokes and painted them black and they look sick IMO... Maybe I should start a SCREWY HATCH BUILD thread, unsure anyone would be interested with it only being a mild build... any one sound deaden their hatch and does it help a bunch with road noise?

SCREWYFITS

@ hOnda_hiEn, whats the scoop on that LS motor you speak of, is it a nice drop in type swap? and is it a 1.8? I haven't seen too much on these, yet!!! I'll have to look'em up and try and find others that have used them... I know it's an Acura motor, just don't know the specs... and thanx for the advice...

@ anyone, is the "apexi ws2" exhaust as quiet as everyone is claiming, as close to stock as you can get? I really don't want loud either, the whole thing is to stay stealth!!! LOL, and should I hold off til I make a decision on swap or turbo?

Here are some quick pics B4 and After rims, check out the B4's they are huge, the *** that I bought it from put these on...
B4

After

hOnda_hiEn

yea the ls motor is a 1.8 acura integra motor.. its basically a drop in and go swap.. if you get the 96,97 ls motor.. and if its complete with ecu axles shift linkage. only other pieces needed would be the 99-00 SI rear L bracket, driver side engine bracket, and a 97-01 crv a/c bracket if your car currently has a/c.. and then extend the secondary o2 sensor wire..

starion88esir

In my opinion, stiffen up as much as possible before you lower it. A car with less flex dramatically changes the feel, as does lowering it. You may find you get too stiff for your liking if you go to low once the chassis is solid.

So far as changing the exhaust, if you know you'll either add a turbo or swap the motor, you're just pissing in the wind. Wasting money for no real benefit. Focus on a tune up, fuel filter, dialing in the timing, stuff like that. With the money you save, you can pick up a set of rims that actually allow you to put some rubber between you and the road instead of those rubberbands you've got.

I can't help with sound deadening. My car has a driver's seat, steering wheel, dash pad and cup holders. I really need to get my carpet cleaned up and get at least the passenger seat back in it.

SCREWYFITS

@ hOnda_hiEn, yeah, that sounds kool... and no ac and O2 sensor already extended for the current header...
driver side engine bracket, is that from the 99-00 SI also?
My car is base model, no power windows, locks or steering so no power steering pump needed either...
is the 96/97 the only year that is basically plug-n-play? or could i use all the way up to th 00's?

@starion88esir, you think them rubber bands don't stick or handle well? or you don't like the looks? I know they don't help with road noise any... LOL... I've always felt the lower profile tires stick better as you have less side wall flex... Just my past experiences and opinion...

starion88esir

The sidewall size has nothing to do with how well the tire sticks. That is all based on the compound, road conditions and temperatures. The only benefit is the fact that there is less sidewall flex so the is less deflection when spiritedly driving.

Road noise and ride comfort are both sacrificed for looks. I won't go smaller than a 50 series tire, ever. You can get tires that are just as sticky or stickier in larger sidewalls, just look at drag slicks, they're never low profiles for a reason. Not to mention there's nothing stealth about 17" tires on a Civic. I love my 14" rims, and if I blow a tire or hit a pot hole (I mean the car is my daily driver) I won't be buying a new rim because the tires are crap.

SCREWYFITS

I get your point, IMO drag cars don't handle very well but they do stick very well in a strait line...

As far as sidewall has nothing to do with how well they stick, I respectfully disagree, as you put the same rated tire (brand and model) on 17's and 14's my money is on the 17's (as far as handling goes, and that's what I'm after) maybe drag situation would be different and have lil to no experience or opinion there... I will agree with your statement "That is all based on the compound, road conditions and temperatures. The only benefit is the fact that there is less sidewall flex so the is less deflection when spiritedly driving." but I would add that sidewall would make a difference in a side by side comparison... again, in handling, not drag, and we are probably looking at this from different angles, and probably (a guess on my part) what you meant by "spiritedly driving"...

I do agree that the stealth factor is compromised some due to them, but I painted them black to improve the stealthiness compared to the bling bling of silver or chrome/polished...

and by stealthy I'm mostly meant, no bling or bright colors for eye catching, I look at almost every car on the road and the darker cars with darker rims (size doesn't mater) don't catch my eye as much as the chrome/polished rims on a bright yellow or red car, not trying to argue in any fashion just trying to explain my opinion or what I meant by stealth... my main goal is to not stand out in traffic if we are all traveling 75/80 (illegal) a cop will look at the red or yellow cars... I've owned yellow cars and love, no "LOVE" them but so does the eye of the law... LOL... I don't drive like an *** like I used too so I consider my driving a lil on the stealth side now, if that makes sense... LOL...

and I do appreciate your advice and opinion, Thank you!!! and I expect your advice has influenced my next purchase, the stiffening of the car with tower/pillar/strut/H-brace supports and also the tuning advice, again thank you!!! What's your opinion on the egay stuff, is it good enough for a fun DD? I know not to get the egay springs, I'm going to spend a lil extra when I get struts and springs... I like the idea of the Koni Yellows and some Eibach springs... and opinions?

calvinhuu00EK

i dont like that wheel.

starion88esir

My idea of spirited driving is as many turns as possible at as high a spped as I can keep the car safely planted in my lane (or driving line if the road is clearly empty). Think tail of the dragon. I'm pure hell on my cars. Taking a 90* turn in my 73 New Yorker with 47k original miles at 35mph will really scare the **** out of anyone that sees it, but it's fun if you can control it.

Anything lower than a 50 series tire has such a stiff sidewall that if you're low on air, you won't notice, and with low profile tires, you MUST check them constantly to ensure they are at the proper psi or the will tear themselves apart from the inside out. Though you can't tell outside, the inside will roll over like when a "balloon tire" is flat, but inside where you will never see it. Over time of course it eats away at itself and eventually it will shred usually completely seperating the sidewall from the tread. I've seen plenty that looked almost new on the outside that needed to be replaced because they were under inflated and did that very thing. (I worked at a Goodyear and a Tire Kingdom for a couple years) They're not made to take an harsh impacts due to the stiff sidewall. If you still want something with plenty of grip and less maintenance as well as a smoother and quieter ride then I suggest you trade those 17's for some 16's and find something like a 205/55 tire.

big-cat

yea then you could do either or. Personally i would go stock single cam on boost(you know how to drive) its alot of fun. I miss my old stock y7 on 10lbs of boost with little t3 45 trim turbo.

I think you are looking for around 200whp any more than I think you will just spin first. and mid to upper 200's you will probably have some traction issues. I actually have some old parts, just PM me about that stuff if need be.

17'' is pushing it but some cars can pull it off, little on the bigger side. You know by know to not cheap out and do stuff right or atleast I would assume.

as far as exhausts go if you are going to stick with the d16 and boost it. I would recommend 3'' with an assortment of a resonator and a good muffler. if you want to swap to a b-series then the WS2 is the way to go. my friend had one on his b16 cx hatch swap and they are as quite as stock till about after 4k rpms then it screams a little

SCREWYFITS

@ starion88esir, now... I agree with you 100%, yet I'm extremely happy with the 17's and plan to stick with them, I knew about the pressure issues and not being able to feel anything and possibly loose the whole tire (I've been there with 50 series a couple of times)... That's why I put a TPMS in the car and sensors in the rims, and have access to the tire pressures and temps at all times while driving... I'm looking at it like this, Corvette's, Porsche's, Vipers, Lambo's all have low profile tires for a reason, I know dam well the engineers that designed those cars knew much more than I'll ever know... and I feel comfortable with my knowledge of race cars and suspension, and that's why I'm here to get advice from the experienced, I know I'm going to have to pick through personal preference, communication issues and slamming me, I'm not here to do what everyone else is doing as I think a lot of trendy stuff gets in peoples way, yet I know there is a lot of solid knowledge here!!!

Here is the TPMS, it's really sweet and shows the temps also, killer for only $110...



@ big-cat, thanx, for the solid suggestions, I'm not sure I want 200's but not knocking or ruling it out... I'm guessing that 150 to 180hp is going to be sufficient, so the Turbo is an attractive option with maybe 7psi boost, and the B18 swap is another solid option, I'm weighing out the whole reliability issues and absorbing every ones advice... I like the idea of the Turbo... and is weighing on my heavily... thanx for the exhaust info... the guy I used to pit crew for owns a exhaust shop so the 3" is very possible, and I'm holding off til I decide, boost vs swap... THANX!!!

@ calvinhuu00EK, I understand, and I hope you don't hold it against me but I think they are staying, I really am not trying to make this a show or a club ride, just a sports car DD/autoX style for "my enjoyment"... and I can appreciate your opinion!!! Thanx!!!

keep it coming, I really appreciate all the advice...

Blazin Si

I'd work on your suspension first and get the car to really handle well. The great thing about these small Honda's is that they're like go-carts. You don't need a ton of power to make them fun to drive through the turns.

As for more power, my vote goes to the swap. I've never had any interest in turbo Honda's, even the ones making 500+ hp. My '92 hatch only puts down 200 at the wheels (B18C swap) and it's more power than I can sometimes handle on a road course. Maybe try driving a couple of proper turbo and n/a set-ups and see which one you like before you decide.

SCREWYFITS

@ Blazin Si, great advice, love the twist with the whole turbo info, you mention you not fond of the turbos, you mind elaborating a lil for me, you made me think a tad... the turbos, is there much lag at bottom end? think about it they have to spool up the pressure before they really come alive, correct? whats the pros and cons of the Turbo and P&C's of the Swap, now I'm thinking that a swap is probably my best bet... as far as a swap goes, is there a whole lot of mods that need to be done to the motor to get like 150-160hp? I honestly believe that is going to be sufficient power, just want to get out of the turns well in to the next turn... I'm getting all excited just talking about it...

FYI, I've pretty much decided to get all my suspension semi dialed then go for the power and try to match it to the suspension...

Quick question, are most of these swaps better with N/A, I've seen it mentioned a few times... I'm just looking for a sport motor, strong at the bottom to mid, just to get in and out of the turns... would still like it to cruise at 75mph and not be wound out...

big-cat

Sorry then you have a mangina if you cant ride in a honda with more than 200whp. my car is making 300whp right now and feels slow as ****. it should be making 400 on pump gas but has some sort of timing issue that I am dealing with. I mean I beat Mustang GT's like they are nothing but its just annoying hopefully I figure the bug out real fast because as of right now if I listed some of the things I have done to it there is no reason I should not be making 400.

starion88esir

Mangina? Really? It's a FWD car. They're simply not as capable of holding solid in turns. He did say it gets away from him on a road course. IMO you're too stuck on number. You'd never utilize 300whp on a road track and a RWD car with the same power would fair better due to the handling characteristics. Period. No need to diss the man for utilizing the entire 200hp he has. Not to mention there's no way you're losing 100whp due to timing. That's complete b.s. I'd rather have 100 hp and be pushing my car for all it's capable of than have 400hp just so I can say I could run 200mph or the 1/4 mile in blah blah, because you damn well aren't using it to go pick up groceries or go to and from work.

Screwy - Love the TPMS! Sorry I underestimated you, so many people over look that fact I'm glad to see you utilizing it. How much did that set up run and how are the moniters installed? Via the valve stem like a factory set up? My ex could certainly use that since she won't check the tire pressure on hers like she should.

Turbos have their ups and downs and the amount of lag will vary on your set up. I've never messed with a turbo honda, but I've owned 4 Starions and done a fair bit on my ex's 1.8T GTI. Proper tuning is essential. Her GTI will atart boosting about 3500rpms and start to drop about 5500, but my Starions typically wouldn't start pulling til 4500 stock. }oo big of a turbo or too small of a turbo will hurt you. A B swap is simple and straight forward and power out the gate without any real tuning necessary. Power is also more constant and harder to manipulate. If you know your boosted engine it's all about when you shift to stay in the power band and seriously reduce turbo lag. If you like to wind out the gears you'll be lagging a lot and unhappy with your snail.