Weifast

SO yes, I failed BAR today, but some things are weird.

1) The tech said that my exhaust manifold is wrong and that it's not from a GSR. Since I bought the motor from an outside source, I couldn't confirm whether its the right manifold or not. The exhaust manifold I have has an o2 port right at the end of the exhaust manifold just before the cat (see photo 1 below). He says that GSR exhaust manifolds don't have a port for an o2 sensor, he says both the primary and secondary o2 sensors are on the catalytic converter. Can anyone confirm what is right here?

2) Some members said that they have passed BAR with the Universal Magnaflow CAT OBD2 Cali compliant Part #46034. I even found this CAT within the DATAbase for CA EO exempt parts and the GSR is listed under that part number, but the tech said there's a mistake and that the CAT for a gsr has two ports for o2 sensors, this magnaflow only has 1 port for the o2 sensor. What's the deal, are the other places just more lenient?

3) For those who want to know, they are attaching your car back on the sniffer. I had to pass the visual AND the sniffer test. I barely failed the sniffer test. I passed at 25 mph, but at 15 mph, my HC were a little over. Max allowed was 60, mine was 63. Just an FYI.

This test was taken at the goldenwest site in southern, CA. Anyone with a GSR obd2, can you confirm to me that your cat has two o2 ports and that your exhaust manifold doesn't have a port for an o2 sensor, because this guy is saying otherwise and that my set up is wrong.

b18cKoupe

ill bump this for elucidating, I had to look that one up

b18cKoupe

gsr primary o2 that i have seen are always in the "a" pipe and the secondary is always in the cat. he doesnt know wtf he is talking about.

jayWknight

iTrader: (3)

Go to a different state ref. The primary O2 sensor has always been on the end of the header and the second 02 sensor is on the cat itself. You dont have to mention to the ref of where the cat came from.

Weifast

THat's what i thought too!! What is this guy talking about?! However, when I had that thought, he shows me the schematics and it does show in his that there is a primary and secondary o2 port ON the cat itself. I called Magnaflow, where I got the CAT from, and they basically told me the same thing. The cat is only suppose to have 1 o2 sensor at the end of the CAT and its the only CAT that they have for my GSR..he says to go up onto an Acura parts website and look at the schematics, and guess what, a 2000 Acura GS-R 3DR DOES have two ports for o2 sensors ON the cat itself. Check it out at the bottom, its illustration 25, 26, both 02 sensors are shown to go directly into the cat 0_0. There doesn't seem to be a port for an o2 sensor on the A pipe right before the CAT either. Problem is though, Magnaflow is basically telling me you're **** out of luck and you can't get your money back.

Duane_in_Japan

Manifold #9 has a port at the *** end for an O2, upper left corner of Picture. I think it only matters that there is a Pre Cat and a Post Cat O2S, as long as the Pre Cat is sniffing all exhaust ports, it should be legal.

If you can post all 4 or 5 gas readings from the test facility, we can tell you if its running Rich or Lean. You have to do a Pre Cat sniff test and a tailpipe sniff test to see how well the Cat is working. If you have the option, drive the hell out of it just prior to the sniff test, get the Cat as hot as possible like in second gear, drive in, get sniffed and you should pass while the Cat is still smokin' hot.

Weifast

%CO2 (15mph) 14.7%
%C02 (25mph) 14.6%

%02 (15) 0%
%02(25) 0%

HC at 15mph
max- 60
ave- 9
measured - 63

HC at 25mph
max- 43
ave - 7
measured - 35

CO% at 15
max- 53
avg- .02
meas- .04

CO% at 25
max- .51
avg- .03
meas- .01


NO at 15
max 459
ave- 57
meas - 36

NO at 25
max-746
ave- 50
meas-9

I didn't fail by much, the max HC at 15mph was 60ppm, I was at 63ppm, only category I failed.

I'm not sure who to believe anymore. I just called Walker CAT who also has a catalytic converter for a 2000 GSR and they are saying the same thing magnaflow is, the CAT is only suppose to have 1 port for an o2 sensor and 1 on the A pipe. I mean in end, I have to comply with BAR, they are the ones issuing the BAR stickers, not magnaflow and walker. Can anyone with a 96-01 GSR confirm whether there are 2 o2 ports on their catalytic converters?

ekb16

iTrader: (1)

mine only has 1 o2 on the cat itself and the other is on the pipe..the Ref ur dealing with is just a picky *** sob

Weifast

The a-pipe for the GS-R is different from the a-pipe from the Type R and the LS. The LS and GS-R a-pipes don't have ports for the o2 sensors (illustration number 7 and 8). The Type R a-pipe does have a port for the primary o2 sensor. A local has an LS a-pipe for sale, but it's a different part number from the GS-R a-pipe, I'm not sure if it's going to bolt up or not to my exhaust manifold and to the cat. Does anyone know?

Weifast

What do you suggest I do? I have the same set up as you with the magnaflow cat etc. What BAR station did you go to?

Duane_in_Japan

0.996 Lamdba, you are just a little Rich according to your 5 Gas readings. Do a fresh oil change. What is your MAP sensor reading at a fully warmed up idle (within proper idle specs) with no accessories on, 1V DC or a tad bit lower is optimal, anything else will need a valve adjustment. Clean air filter and fuel filter and all around tune up is in order, even some injector cleaner, but start with the first items mentioned.

Can anyone vouch for what using a different octane gas or octane booster will do for emissions.

The tester did check idle speed and timing, correct, there are limits allowed that are different from what you showed on his tester, is he a test only station or can he make a couple of small, within spec, adjustments. With the items above you may even want to bump up your timing a hair, but again, within spec.

As mentioned, can you go to a different test station for a second opinion.

Weifast

The timing was indeed off, the timing on my motor was 20 BTDC...the BAR ref did check my timing. He says I need to adjust it to 16 BTDC +/- 2.

Duane_in_Japan

Well, adjust timing, do the oil change to get the fuel fumes out that are being sucked up by the PCV system, make sure the Cat is hot when you get in there and give it another shot but I would like to know what your MAP reading is still.

Weifast

Hey, I can't re-smog my car until the cat situation is sorted out. This isn't just a smog test, it's a test to legalize the 2000 GSR engine I have in the 2000 Civic, and at this point, they are saying that I have to switch the CAT out that I have now because it does not have two ports for 2 o2 sensors.

They are arguing that the stock 2000 GSR is setup to have 2 o2 sensors ON the CAT itself, at the front of the CAT, and at the back of the CAT. MY setup, I have the primary o2 on the a-pipe right before the front of the CAT, and the secondary o2 on the rear of the CAT.

So until I figure out another company that makes a CAT for a 2000 GSR with two ports for o2 sensors, I can't smog it because the CAT I'm using (even though its supposively legal) is not the right one for my car because it only has 1 port for the rear o2 sensor (according to the BAR tech).

I also have to remove the EVAP PURGE joint as well because Civics had that joint, but Acura GSRs didn't, so I failed on that too -_______-. I feel so overwhelmed right now lol. Oh yes, they also complained that the CAR is placed too far back, he says the CAT has to be RIGHT AFTER the a-pipe, it cannot even be a few inches further back away from the A-pipe -____-. This station is SOOO knit picky.

mortificationrock

Well I for a fact know that CAT deal is BULLSHIT. That guy is just being a hater cuz you have a clean *** civic...LoL. From what i know the cat has to be for the engine you are baring. In your case a GSR. The new CA CATs have a serial number to run also. So you should be ok. Just take your car elsewhere. I would have schooled that punk. There is no such thing as 2 o2's on a cat. Ive never seen a car with that. I've seen cars with multiple o2's but all in different cats(when it has more than one like trucks).

ekb16

iTrader: (1)

the ref station i went to is located in Redding Cali. which is 2hr north of sacramento..he was really koo with me and my buddies. at one point he was even asking me for some info on jdm motors and how to tell the diff. between them

Weifast

DAMN that is not gonna happen, thats 400 miles away from me -_-

Duane_in_Japan

Make a phone call to see if the Ref is leaning towards allowing your Cat, then make the 4 hour drive OR ask the original inspector for help with a part number that he is talking about and buy a new Cat and have it installed. Which one is cheaper.

Weifast

I honestly rather pay for $400 then DRIVE 400 miles to get it smogged lol. Anyway, I think this woudl give you guys a good idea of how big of a ***** he was and how picky that goldenwest station is.

List of things I have to fix before I can come back, this is typed exactly on the paper that he typed out and gave to me.

1.) Install/replace catalytic converter
Catalyst does not have proper provision for o2 sensors. Both O2 sensors are suppose to be in the catalyst. No modifications allowed. (need I remind everyone, I DID use a CARB EO approved CAT and he totally pwned me and said no, the CARB EO is a mistake).

2) Return Catalyst Configuration to Factory Standard
Catalyst not in proper location (customer's cat is set further back than factory). (It was like 3 inches further back, good god lol).

3) Remove Purge Joint, not used in Acura EVAP system.

4) Install proper exhaust manifold and pipe for Acura GS-R. No modifications prior to rear catalyst forward without EO. Meet and pass all parts test.

5) Set timing/idle to factory specifications
Set timing and idle speed to specs. 16BTDC +/- 2 with connector shorted.

My timing is at 20BTDC. Is it really possible for the timing to cause me to fail the test? I don't want to purchase a new exhaust manifold. I think what I might do is just buy an o2 sensor plug and screw it on the exhaust manifold o2 port. I think anther bar station would be okay with that.

PLANS:

My plan now is to fix the timing, remove the evap joint, and move the cat closer to the exhaust manifold. Call and schedule an appointment in fullerton instead of goldenwest and see what they say. We'll see if the technician is more lenient there. I tried calling the fullerton station, but funny thing is there phone number is not listed -_-. I also called Magnaflow again and they are adamant that their part is exempt and the bar technician is stupid because the location of the primary does not matter, as long as its before the cat...which I agree. I don't see how having it on the cat, but before the catalyst material makes any difference.

Duane_in_Japan

You need to go somewhere else like you are planning. Yes, timing is a big thing, its off by 4 degrees at idle but more at 2000 RPM, but the computer is designed to start operations at idle so idle timing needs to be set first, its always been that way since carburator days, adjust timing, adjust idle, adjust timing, adjust idle, thats it, oh hell, a cold front just rolled in, adjust timing, adjust idle, adjust timing, adjust idle........

He wants you to spend your money for parts in Cali cause they are so broke, buy your parts from out of state.

kensei

sup wei just figured i check in see how's your swap going, but it seems like its not going too well.

for all the ppl doubting the cat with 2 o2 sensors, i actually have that cat and its sitting at home atm. i believe it came on all integra gsr that were 98+ or maybe even 97+ for california cars. i saved it for whenever i have to smog. heres a pic of it, see attachments.

heres some answer for your list

1. gotta find that oem odb2 cat. i think i told you couple threads ago u should get the oem 98+ cat. i know its hard to find an used one and expensive for a new one. but BAR is the damn government that can nick and pick about anything if they dont want to pass you. its like a police officer or chp pulling u over, they can ticket u for almost anything if they want. its better not to give them a reason to.

2. fixed if u get oem cat

3. thats easy

4. for the 2-1 pipe, i wouldnt buy the ls if the part number does not match the gsr one. i also took a pic of mines for you to reference.

5. setting timing back to 16 degrees TDC will definitely help with passing the sniffer test. when u advance the timing ur basically pushing unburnt fuel (and whatever wastes) out of the combustion chamber before completing the full cycle.

the bar station i went to was in sacramento on fulton avenue. they seemed pretty cool about it when i went in. if u really can not pass with the magnaflow cat, i can loan u my header and cat setup if u setup an appointment somewhere in norcal. i usually travel to the bay area on the weekends.

duane's advice on running the cat hot before the test helps. i believe if u get an appointment in the morning where the ambient air temperature isnt 90~100F, your chances of passing will be higher too.