germanturtle

iTrader: (1)

eg chasis/ obd1 gsr b18 swap. running hondata s3 and a skunk intake manifold.

visited the ref guy was cool and didnt give me any unnecessary b.s.

first run i passed all visuals on everything, gas cap and tank pressure test was passed, dyno wheels spun and my co's are registered at 3.31 15 mph and 4.14 while at 25 mph. ref told me the co numbers led to high hc's. hc's registered at 218 while at 15 mph and 220 while at 25 mph. ref suggests replacing o2 sensor says the readings are so high he thinks the sensor is dead.

i go home order a brand new sensor (bosch) and wait for its arrival. part installed i reschedule with bar and go to the second shot of passing the bar.
i also decide at this time to play it safe and pull the s300 out and swap in a stock obd1 p72. cel 23 pops up after a circle around the block. i am baffled and lost so i swap out a total of four o2 sensors thinking maybe the sensors are f d up and theyre making my cel come up.. i was having a moment but was running out of time and couldnt seam to figure wth was wrong. so i swapped back in the s300 and kept the new o2 sensor in and away to the appointment.

2nd run.. ****** f er.. fail again.. o fyi i was a gross polluter per the results of the first try at the bar. anyways, heres the co's 4.04 at 15 mph and 4.12 at 25 mph. again leading to high hc's. hc's registered at 218 at 15 mph and 224 at 25 mph. still obviously a grass polluter... just for your knowledge max co's tollerable is about if im reading this paper correctly.. if not enlighten me please. and the max of hc's tollerable is 57- 92..

as an unfortunate fail came again the ref made some additional suggestions.. though he did seam to hold back with the suggestions or knowledge as im sure he is concerned for his job.. anyways, he says the o2 sensor could be wired incorrectly and sending false readings to the pcm. i didnt wire the swap because im scared of wiring..agh!! it was a clean job and was told all connections were soldered and or repinned for oem quality. the ref also suggests that the wiring for the ecu could have pins accidentally switched by the guy that wired it. i have a week and the stickers on my plates expire, then dmv gives me a 2 month extension countdown till the car goes from daily driveable to track only.. which would suck for right now. as stated earlier i passed the comprehensive visual inspection, and the functional pass, its the tail pipe thats killing me. i am running 2 and a half inch exhaust, with a legit gsr oem cat and header. im thinking i need to have the settings dialed down as car was tuned for intake mani, header, intake, throttle body.. i went back to alll oem parts for the bar. is there a way i can just download a program and return all my maps to factory settings or do i need to find a shop that tunes hondata?? if so and suggestions for shops that are not hack in the bay or sac..

or ..

do i have the stock p72 and figure out what the hell the codes coming up for..
thanks to all.. semi noob with b swaps, hit lightly

fungus mungus

A couple of things:

- CEL 23 is your knock sensor...you never said if this a JDM or USDM swap. If it's a JDM swap, you won't have a knock sensor (IIRC). If this is a USDM swap, check that your knock sensor is tightened down properly. If it is, check for continuity between the ECU and the knock sensor with a multimeter. If continuity is good, get a new knock sensor and install it. The reason the S300 isn't throwing that code is that your knock sensor has probably been disabled (commonly done by tuners). Get your knock sensor issue sorted out so you can run the stock ECU.

- To check your O2 sensor, hook your laptop to your S300 and run the S300 Manager application. In that app, you can turn on datalogging. Log a 5 minute trip around town after the car has warmed up. Check your logs...if you don't see any voltage on the O2 reading (that is, it's always 0), you have a bad O2 or it's not wired up properly.

Assuming your O2 is OK, if you take it in with the stock ECU and still fail, you could try cheating and putting in a mix of methanol and gas. I'd only do this as a last resort though.

fm

germanturtle

iTrader: (1)

fm to the rescue.. good shot on the knowledge.. its a usdm swap my bad. and yes the sensor is in place i have checked it and it seams tight. ill hafta do a search on the continuity testing, as i barely know how to turn on my dam meter.. i will hook up the laptop and check the o2, hopefully will update of data log tomorrow.. sounds like fixing the sensor issue and runnin the stock ecu is the way to go huh??

fungus mungus

Here is the pinout diagram of an OBD1 ECU. Pin D3 is the knock sensor (the RED/BLU wire).

Using a multimeter is pretty simple. Plug one lead into the COM port (usually black). Plug the other one (usually red) into the Volts/Ohms port (V/Ω). Unplug your ECU and your knock sensor. Touch one of the leads (doesn't matter which one) to D3 on the ECU harness and the other to the wire that plugs into the knock sensor. If it reads 0, that means there's no resistance, which is what you want to see. If it reads a number other than zero, it means that you have a break somewhere in your wire.

fm

germanturtle

iTrader: (1)

update... so i switched my hondata to run a stock gsr map and still failed my fifth attempt to ref... dammm... he said he assumed a vacuum leak caused by failing o rings around fuel injectors. i replaced the o rings, all three. he also said could be map system related.. i removed and cleaned the fitv and iacv and throttle body.. any suggestions on lowering co's and hc's. i inspected the inside of the cat and it looks to be in good shape, it came off a gsr with 75ooo miles.. any suggestions would be appreciated.

fungus mungus

Well,
You could do what 93egSLEEPER did to get his cammed GSR swap to pass...run your tank down to about 1 gallon and then add a gallon of methanol. Then limp to the Ref station and watch your car blow zeros on the tailpipe test. At least, that's what happened when he did it. Your mileage may vary.

If you choose to try this, it's important that you don't beat the car to and from the Ref station...just drive it gently. Once you leave, go directly to a gas station and fill up with 91 again. It should start to run normal again once the rest of the meth is out of the fuel system.

fm

germanturtle

iTrader: (1)

fm with the knowledge.. methanol huh? i would be down to give it a shot.. i could always drain the tank in parking lot and bring a gas can.. im down to do just about anything at this point, but i curious are there any dangers involved with the meth?? lol.. im gonna switch out the ecu again and see if i get that dam knock sensor code again. thnx again for the help.

96dxcrapbox

are you running factory cams?
could you post up all of your numbers?
what is the condition of your tune up parts?
is your knock sensor new? old ones break if you look at them wrong.

fungus mungus

Dangers would be causing detonation if you beat on the engine while you're running it, as it requires a lot more fuel than your stock ECU map will give it. 93egSLEEPER said that his ran a little hotter than usual, but again, if you baby it on the way to the ref and then to the gas station, you should be fine.

So did the state ref even notice you were running a modded ECU? And are you saying you didn't resolve your knock sensor CEL...you just swapped in your Hondata ECU?
fm

96dxcrapbox

must not have noticed
they would fail you for that alone.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/tech-misc-15/how-bar-ref-your-car-2921618/

germanturtle

iTrader: (1)

to fm: lol --- i put a piece of grey tape over the cut out (hiding the led )
and yes i ran a s3 at the ref.. still have not resolved the cel on the knock sensor.thinking of buying a new sensor as the pinout is good.. also good on the o2 sensor as i checked it as well

to dxcrapbox: plugs are good and clean, plug wires are in order and clean, distributor is new and clean, wiring harness is clean and wrapped up and outta the way, oil changed before the ref full synthetic every time.. air filter on oem air box brand new, fuel filter newer but still good id imagine- i replaced it within a years time, coolant has been flushed recently, new fluid in tranny, new fluid for brakes and clutch cyl.. the car is well kept to say the least.. running a skunk2 intake manifold, itr guts in the head and the rest is stock gsr internals. stock gsr exhaust manifold. oem gsr cat, 2 n a half inch piping from the cat to a stock looking muffler not sure who makes it. fitv and iacv have ben cleaned very well. tps sensor has ben checked for proper voltage.

germanturtle

iTrader: (1)

just ordered a new knock sensor from the marketplace here.. hopefully it fixes the cel

Former User

Did you test the KS wire as suggested in post #4? Otherwise, you're just throwing parts at the problem.

fungus mungus

The OP said in post 13 that the "pinout is good" so I am assuming he did test the wiring to the knock sensor. But I could be wrong...OP?

fm

Former User

That's a leap. Taken literally, "pinout" only means that the correct colored wire was seen at the right position in the ECU connector.

Hanmin

try retarding the ignition timing some, your car will be sluggish but you're emission output will be less, worked many times in my gsr hatch, but this is in wa.

96dxcrapbox

hanmin has a point about the timing.....
what do your hc and nox numbers look like on the last failed attempt?

germanturtle

iTrader: (1)

rj- yes i checked as suggested in #4 and seams to be wired correctly, it had as poor splice job, resoldered and shrink wrapped the connection, still threw a code.

and here are the results- i will post all of them i think i still have most of the copies..

15mph hc ppm measure 218 co% measure 3.31 no ppm measure 78
25mph 220 4.14 60

218 4.04 63
224 4.12 42

221 3.29 55
228 3.83 40

maximum amount of hcs at 15mph is 92. while at 25mph is 57
co's at 15mph is .55. at 25 mph is .54
no's at 15mph is 716.at 25mph is 764.

no's are not the problem obviously... but my co's are threw the roof as well as my hc's

germanturtle

iTrader: (1)

ill give the retardin of the timing a shot as well, thanks to all for the help

Former User

Did you Ohm test the wire as described here^? If so, what was the Ohm reading? The test checks for a wire open (break). However, the test would not tell you whether the wire has a short. To test for a short, set the meter to read Ohms or continuity and then touch one probe to terminal D3 and the other probe to the metal frame under the dash. Post the Ohm reading.

Again, this^ doesn't sound like you Ohm tested the wire.

Former User

The engine is running extremely rich. Checking the ignition timing is a good idea, but how old are the plugs, wires, cap, and rotor? Have you inspected them? Have you tested the coil and igniter unit?

Have you measured the fuel pressure and tested the FPR? Is a fuel injector stuck open?

Is the engine running cold?

Is there an exhaust leak near or upstream of the O2 sensor?

Are you having any idle problems?

96dxcrapbox

agreed you are dumping gas into your motor and probably killing your cat. since your nox is only @ 78 PPM your combustion chambers are running way too cool from the excessive fuel. it may be a good idea to run a stock ecu.
the damage may already be done to your cat if you are running around like that.

to pass if i were you i would

run a stock ecu or stock mapping
set the timing dead nuts factory
a new cat may be in your future but i would do the 1st 2 things and see what happens

when you take the car into the ref drive it about 100 FREEWAYmiles first take it in with the cat blazing hot when you get to the ref station leave the car running.



if you still fail (post your numbers) you are probably going to need a new cat and possibly a front o2 sensor

good luck

EpHatchy

ref will shut your car off doesnt matter if the cat is warm.cat should work in any condition as i questioned the method to my local ref too because he wouldnt leave my car running when i showed up to get bar'd.still passed though.good luck, barring a honda can be a pain in the ***.

96dxcrapbox

cats actually do their job much better piping hot.

germanturtle

iTrader: (1)

spark plug wires, cap, plugs have all ben replaced within a years time max.
as far as the timing is concerned i definitley need to retard it as the ref stated i was runnin about the most advanced allowable timing per spec.i just picked up a timing light, now i can fix it.. i agree a stock ecu is the only way to go. as far as i know my fpr is functioning properly but i dont know. my fpr is stock and hasnt ben modified but i have not tested it. stock fuel injectors, and fuel rail but yet again have not tested them.i have a new donut in the header to cat connection and a new o2 sensor as of two weeks ago, i recently inspected what i could see from both sides of my cat- and it looked to be in good condition- the honeycomb material wasnt physically damaged as far as i could tell. my idle sits at 900-950rpm after its warmed up.i havent tested the ignitor or coil as i didnt know i needed to or how i would go about doin that- i will search here. i will also see about retesting my knock sensor as recomended by fm.. i may have tested it incorrectly. this is second swap car i have done/owned- forgive the noobness- i appreciate all the input guys.im not electrically savy and appreciate the detailed explanations on properly using the ohmeter, etc.thanks again to all, im sure ur guys input will lead to me passin.. i hope..f in smog.