jspecwhore

hey guys im looking for insight from savvy people on here 1994 honda civic EX d16z6 5spd. i rebuilt the engine and the engine spins nicely. there is compression as well. i checked for spark on all 4 cylinders and there is spark. there is also fuel. i checked the plugs and they were a bit flooded. as far as timing goes, its as spot on as can be. it has had some machine work block slightly decked and the head lightly resurfaced. really looking on insight on where to begin looking. im dumbfounded. i wonder if maybe the ECU is bad. should i possibly retard the actual timing (not ignition) half a tooth? the firing order is good as well. possible distributor 180 out of timing? any tricks to start a diagnosing process. im thinking about back probing the injector plugs to see pulsation? i checked fuses and all fuses are good.

thanks in advance guys

mithious

It's hard to get the dizzy 180 degrees out since it's keyed, but it's pretty easy to check that. (take it out and check, but I doubt that's your problem)

Perhaps if your timing was way off (belt off a few teeth)... did you follow the manual for lining that up and tensioning? But I would still expect it to try to start and stumble.

Seems to me the ECU is working if you're getting fuel and spark, but I haven't encountered a bad ECU before so I'm not sure.

Are you getting air? Hard to mess up, but I messed up making a throttle body gasket once and accidentally closed over an air hole. But in that case it would start and immediately die.

Did you change anything else on your build?

How did you check for spark? If the plugs were flooded there is obviously fuel (I know you said it, I'm just spitballing here), but make sure you've got good plugs in there. Are they old?

When you saw the spark was it bright or weak looking? There is a troubleshooting guide around here somewhere, I'd hunt for that in the FAQ.

All I got! GL!

jspecwhore

thanks mithious. i was thinking the same about it being 180 degrees off. its hard to screw that up. i did follow the manual for lining up timing and tensioning and the marks are like i said as close as can be if not exactly on the ball even after thre machine work.

i didnt know if anybody here has encountered a bad ecu that throws spark and fuel, but it didnt hurt to ask. lol

i havent checked for getting air, but i doubt that because its a paper gasket. as far as vaccuum everything is hooked up minus the pcv valve ( idk if that can affect it) its not hooked up because i need to buy 2 new hoses along with the valve that goes into the rear oil breather box.

as far as the rebuild its a bone stock rebuild with no power modifications.

i checked for spark using my inline spark tester. i believe im gona check if spark is going all the way to the new plugs. (theyre brand new) yea theyre flooded thats why i assume im getting fuel lol.

the first time i checked for spark cyl 1 was strong and 2-4 werent as strong as 1 but theyre was spark. i went ahead a swapped the coil from a spare dizzy i had laying around as well as brand new sprak plug wires and a rotor. now all 4 are evenly strong of a spark

jspecwhore

also, got a nasty back fire when i was playing with the distributor, i retarded it past the small space of adjustment (obviously had no bolts on the distributor and adjusted it further) but i stoppped aftere that. thought i should mention that

mithious

hmm... spark, fuel and air make boom. something is missing...

i can relate, i did my first rebuild (not saying it's your first) last winter and it was a stock Z6. but it wouldn't start, and I had no spark. i had taken the dizzy apart to replace the internal seal, and must've messed something up because I had to replace the dizzy. soon as i did, started with no issues.

but you've got spark, fuel and air... i'm not sure if having the PCV unhooked would be an issue... I don't think so.

perhaps you simply flooded it. air it out and try again? isn't there a foot to the floor protocol for when you've got it flooded?

lol, NOW that's all I've got.

mithious

well there's the boom, but with the timing way off. focus on getting your timing right, and I bet you'll start it.

Former User

Is spark bright white at all 4 plugs?

Are the plug wires installed in the correct firing order on the distributor cap?

Post pictures of the cam and crank pulleys with the engine at TDC1.

CEL codes?

jspecwhore

ron, yes they are bright.

yes correct firing order. cyl1 top left, cyl2 bottom left cyl3 top right cyl4 bottom right

if you give me a few ill jack tthe car up and rotate it to TDC cyl1

(if i can remember how to post pics on here its been forever lol)

yes cel code 1 which i believe calls for an o2 or something like that. i lost the paper clip i had to jump the service connecter with and the piece of wire i have sucks.

BRB......

jspecwhore

i was fiddling with it just about 10 minutes ago, everytime i rotate the distributor a little past full retard it just back fire. thats the most i can make it do something instead of just cranking and cranking.

jspecwhore

here is TDC cyl1 cam gear side

jspecwhore

and here is the best i can do for the bottom end of it. like i said its pretty much spot on. if anything it may possibly be half a tooth off or so after the machine work. but its should still start and run like ****.

jspecwhore

and this is as far back as i bring the ignition timing to til i get a nice little fireball from the end of the headers ( B pipe isnt bolted up)

Former User

Bright white?

Do you know the cyl order?

Post pictures where we can see each wire routed from the cap to valve cover.



When did you last check the codes?

Not sure I understand what you're doing, but backfiring often means the mechanical timing is off.

Former User

I don't see a mechanical timing issue.

Why isn't the crank pulley and drive belts installed?

What ECU?

jspecwhore

it isnt the brightest, but its a strong spark.

correct, that is the firing order on the distributor currently, it hasnt been altered

the cel as checked yesterday, i disconnect the battery every night so the cel goes away and comes back, its been the same CEL no other CEL.

pulley and drive belt arent installed because i removed the pulley to double check timing.

stock P28 ecu. car is bone stock.

Former User

Is it bright white at all 4 plugs or not?

You're trying to start with not alternator. Put the pulley and belts back on. No need to remove pulley to check the mechanical timing.

Recheck timing with pulley installed.

jspecwhore

correct, a steady spark on all 4 cyl. im thinking about finding somebody with a known working d16z6 distributor and attempting that one.

sorry, forgot to mention that i took off the pulley after any testing. i will re install tomorow after work and then look for a possible other approach to diagnosing. im really lost. it should have started by now.

jspecwhore

i do not have the bottom timing cover either, so im forced to remove the crank pulley

jspecwhore

UP for some help

Former User

Also, buy a lower timing belt cover, and an upper one if that's missing too.

jspecwhore

Yes, trying to source a used timing cover. Come monday ill order one from the dealer. Really wanting the car to run first =(

jspecwhore

UP

thebeard

Well according to where you said you had your plugs on the dizzy compared to the diagram Ron posted, it looks to me like you're off a wire in the firing order.

86azms3

Backfire could be a sign of firing during intake stroke. Double check firing order. Assuming you actually mean backfire

Double check with the engine at TDC that the distributor marks line up for TDC as well

jspecwhore

thanks for the reply thebeard. as far as Rons diagram idk how i can be off a wire. i literally have it the same way as the diagram.