C Bass

My 93 Del Sol would sometimes die, either while driving or wouldn't start intermittently. Then one night i drove it to my girlfriend's house and when i went to leave, it wouldn't start. It hasn't started ever since.

So I towed it home to work on it and first figured it was the main relay since it was just starting to get to summer temperatures outside. I took the fuel line before the filter off and turned the key and there was no fuel. I also could not hear the fuel pump prime the system at all. So I bought a main relay off of ebay that was said to be tested and working and put it in. No luck. I tested both relays as it says in the haynes manual and they both tested okay. Whenever I jump wire the number 5 and 7 terminals going to the relay, the fuel pump starts working and sprays out the lines so it can't be a faulty fuel pump right? However, the car won't start in this manner, even with the relay attached and the jumper wire in. So still not trusting my testing skills i went to the honda dealer and bought a brand new relay. Still no luck.

I decided to make sure I was getting spark and found that I wasn't. The check engine light also stays on. I tried to jump the connecter to flash a code on the cel but it won't blink, it just stays lit. I don't know where to go from here but figure my spark problem is related to my fuel problem not the other way around. But maybe not.

Please help me. I know there's a lot of people out there who know a lot more than me. Thanks in advance!

superfast666

some times the ignition wiring gets [freak]ed up i had the same problem as you and i changed everything still didnt fix the problem changed the ignition wiring and it solved the problem

C Bass

If it did have to do with the ignition would the fuel pump still only come on after the key was turned on with the jumper wire connected? (the fuel pump doesn't run unless the key is turned and the jumper wire is connected)

also the the fuel pump won't shut off after five seconds or whatever it's supposed to with the jumper wire connected

sit22 II

did u check the rotor inside the distributor if the screw still there

C Bass

I took the distributer cap off and looked around. The rotor was on tight, the cap seemed fine. I cleaned the contacts a little. Still no spark. Is there something that when the ignition system fails it cuts off the fuel system or when the fuel system fails it cuts off the ignition system. It just seems like one isn't working because of the other. Maybe the computer??? Is that why I can't get my check engine light to blink a code???

SinsEvil666

Im not sure if either or can be causing either to not work. I really doubt it.

You should check the harness before the ignitor (several Wires) with a tester to see if there is spark/current while having the key to the on position. If you have spark there, continue after the ignitor and to the dizzy, ending in ur spark plug wires and also check ur spark plugs. This will help u determine where the spark/current stops which is most likely the problem.

sit22 II

leave the cap off and have some else turn the key for u see if the rotor moves
make sure the is there in the rotor. when i got my del sol wasnt running the dealer that i got it from count figure out why the thing was that the rotor was stock in the shaft but the screww was missing so it feelt thight

sit22 II

oh yea check all ur fuses too

rSol93

Take your ICM (ignition control module) which is located inside the distributer to Autozone so they can test it to see if its good or bad.

C Bass

ok. i will check all of those things. thanks. what about the fuel problem??? and the cel???

C Bass

So i checked the rotor to make sure it was spinning: it was.
Reset the ecu to see if maybe that would help my cel problem: it didn't.
checked all of the main grounds that I knew of: thermostat housing, valve cover, transmission

this is starting to get annoying. i don't know anyone with a honda to swap ecu's or i would.
someone has to have a better idea than me.

i would really like to figure out the fuel problem. please help!!

sit22 II

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by C Bass &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

this is starting to get annoying. i don't know anyone with a honda to swap ecu's or i would.


</TD></TR></TABLE>
last year when i was in sprinfield and bransn i only saw 2 hondas one was a parked da and the other was a shity accord


did u check all ur fuel fuses ? fuel relays

C Bass

yeah there actually is a lot of them around i guess, i just don't hang out with any of them. what brought you all the way to this neck of the woods? good ol' branson? lol

yeah i checked all the fuses about 50 times hoping that's all it was, but no luck. ( i checked under the hood and under the dash)

is there more that one relay i should be checking?


Modified by C Bass at 10:02 PM 7/10/2008

sit22 II

oh yea one time i searching and found out that if u dnt have the caps on the wiring harneson the driver side strut tower the car wont start and check the harness on the pass side strut tower if they are tight or corrored

sit22 II

my girls mom lives in branson, iwas there for like a week and went to alot of places one of them was a restaurant that trow breads to the tables

C Bass

yeah lamberts...man that place is good....a little bit hillbilly, but good!

sit22 II

do u have an alarm or the car had one

sit22 II

hey i been looking around in a special page that we use for the shop and found this.
Rating:
Status: Closed w/Fix
Comments: No Comments
Replies: 25 (View Replies)
From: Douglas Stoessner
Date: Jun 18, 2001 5:22 PM

REPLY: Click here to reply to this FIX!

1992 Honda Civic

Engine: 1.5 L / 91 CID / 4 cyl / Gas / SOHC
Fuel: Fuel Injection
Ignition: Distributor-Breakerless
Trans: 4-speed Automatic Transaxle (Electronic)
Mileage: 87,102 mi
VIN: 1HGEG864XN

Affected Item: Engine
Condition: Will Not Start

_____________________ ORIGINAL MESSAGE _____________________

Hello fellow technicians, I hope that someone can help me back
on the right diagnostic path.

This 1992 Civic was towed in with a no start condition. The
customer stated that the engine stopped running while he was
driving. The first thing that I noticed as I was towing the
car into the shop, was that the shifter interlock was
inoperative. The only way that I could get the shifter out of
park, was to press the override button. I don't know if that
is related to my starting problem or not. The engine turns
over without any problem; however, there isn't any injector
pulse, any fuel pressure, or any spark from the ignition. It
seems that this vehicle lacks all of the ingredients that you
need for an engine to run.

I checked to see if the cam belt was broken or out of time,
and it was not. I then checked all of the fuses under the dash
and under the hood. I also checked for fault codes by bridging
the two-pin service check connector. The check engine light
stayed on indicating that there weren't any fault codes
stored.

Using my Vantage, I proceeded to check the TDC/Crank/Cylinder
Sensor. All of the tests were taken at the gray 8-pin
connector at the distributor. The Crank Position Sensor, and
Cylinder #1 Sensor both produced the proper waveforms. The
Ignition Control Module portion of my testing failed.

Even though I had power to the injectors, (it was the ground
pulses that I was lacking) the next thing I tested was the
Main Relay. The Main Relay supplies power to the injectors and
supplies an ignition signal to the ECM. The Main Relay also
powers the fuel pump. The Main relay itself tested ok. While
testing the inputs to the relay I discovered that I was
missing battery voltage to terminal 6 when the ignition switch
was turned to the start position. The repair manual says to
repair the open circuit between the Main Relay and the
ignition switch.

It seems that the first time I tested this circuit; I had 8
volts at terminal 6 while cranking. Later when I rechecked my
findings, I had 0 volts at terminal 6 while cranking. The
service manual states that while cranking I should have
battery voltage at terminal 6 of the Main Relay. At this
point, I got off the diagnostic track. I couldn't find any
problem with the wiring. Are these vehicles known to have
ignition switch problems?

I checked my connections at the ECM and the ground conections
on the engine. The service manual mentions connecting a test
harness between the ECM and its connector to perform further
test at the ECM. I do not have this test harness. Can I
perform the tests by back probing the ECM connector?

Any help would be appreciated.

__________________________ UPDATE __________________________

Hello Fellow Technicians,

The good news is that I found the source of the voltage drop
to terminal 6 of the main relay. It was a loose terminal in
the fuse box to the starter signal fuse. Now there is battery
voltage to the main relay while cranking. Also, I'm sure that
the ignition switch is good. Since main relay failures are
common, I also replaced the main relay. The bad news is that
it didn't repair the no start problem.

Since the ignition control module test at the distributor
failed, and there is a red rust residue under the distributor
cap, I ordered a rebuilt distributor today. Hope it cures my
problem.

What bothers me is that with the key on and not cranking the
engine, the fuel pump should energize for two seconds and the
check engine light should go off after the same two seconds
has elapsed. The main relay does not energize the fuel pump at
all, and the check engine light remains on at all times. I
have tested this directly at the ECU connector.

The service manual says to substitute a known good ECU and
recheck. Finding a known good ECU for a Honda at a
Subaru/Volkswagen dealership can be a problem!

Am I on the right track? Are ECU failures common on these
vehicles?

____________________________ FIX ___________________________

Fellow Technicians,

Thanks for all of the responses. They helped put me back on
the right diagnostic path and the vehicle was repaired.

Frank Menz hit the nail right on the head. Frank remembered a
friend of his who replaced an ECM on a Honda for a no start
condition along with a shift interlock problem. After I
replaced the ECM, the shifter moved when I stepped on the
brake pedal, and the engine started right up.

I learned from four other responses that on this vehicle, if
there aren't any faults in the ECM, the 'Check Engine' light
should go off after 2 seconds when the key is on and the
engine is off. If the light does not go off, the ECM is
probably defective.

Quite a few responses pointed to either dirty contacts, or bad
solder connections in the main relay. As I stated in my
update, I replaced the main relay.

The customer decided to keep the distributor that I installed,
since red rust was present under the cap.

Thanks again everyone


Douglas Stoessner
Technician/Shop Foreman
Ellacott Shaker Volkswagen / Subaru
Warrensville Heights, Ohio, USA

REPLY: Click here to reply to this FIX!

C Bass

Just to update for anyone who might have the same problem: I replaced the ecm and everything was fine. I know they rarely just "go bad" but it happened to me. I bought another p28 off of craigslist for $70 and it worked fine, however it turned out to be for and automatic so now I have a cel. Thanks sit22 II for all your help.