mizzoEG

I just replaced the wheel cylinders, brake shoes, and solid steel brake lines on my rear drums for my 1994 Civic DX Hatchback. (The old wheel clyinders were leaking, the shoes were done, and the old oem steel brake lines were rusted and had broke.) Afterward I bled the whole system in the right order (RR, RL, FR, FL).

My problem is that after I did all of this I took the car for a test drive and the brakes barely engauged and the car slows down very very slowly. The car is definitely not safe for driving conditions and I don't understand what could be wrong. I just hope I don't need a new Brake Booster or Master Cylinder.

Any help will be greatly appreciated, TIA.

96redexcivic

Make sure the line is not leaking? and then do (gravity bleed) on all four side at same time.

BryanM.

iTrader: (1)

I agree with 96redexcivic. Sounds like you may have not bled the system enough and/or there is a leak somewhere. Gravity bleeding is your friend, by far the easiest way to bleed the system - not to mention you can do it by yourself.

mizzoEG

There are no leaks. When I bled the brakes I tried to make sure there were no more air bubbles. I've been searching alot and in most cases I learned that this problem is mostly associated with a bad Master Cylinder. I don't have a clue to what to what procedure I should do.

Pothole987

i'd rebleed the brakes. sounds like the problem. Air is horrible to get out sometimes. gravity bleed each wheel.

96redexcivic

If i remember correctly there was one issue and that was wheel cylinder needed to be replace and in the process you ran into brake line that was rusted and you changed that too and the shoes of course. If needed master cylinder it's really easy to changed and you can bench bleeded simple process. Also did you try double pumping it does the padel get harder or stay the same?




Modified by 96redexcivic at 10:21 AM 9/14/2008

mizzoEG

When the engine is off, the brake pedal is <U>firm</U>. When the engine is on the brake pedal has no pressure and the vehicle slows down horribly.

pythoner

is it firm after you turn the car off and before you touch the brakes agian?

mizzoEG

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pythoner &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">is it firm after you turn the car off and before you touch the brakes agian?</TD></TR></TABLE>

No. after I turn the engine off the brake pedal is as soft as it was when the engine was on, but becomes firm again after pressing it in about once or twice.

96redexcivic

Sound like air in the line to me, but it's possible i maybe wrong, did this issue exist before you start changing wheel cyl. and brake line and steel plate?

mizzoEG

I didn't have this issue before I changed everything.

I'm thinking about gravity bleeding my brakes soon, anything else I should know before I start? thanks.

96redexcivic

Let me know the outcome

Since94

assuming.. there is no leaks, no lines kinked or bubbled and they are in decent shape.

I had the same issue on a 91' DX.

Changed brakes.. bled and so on. Still acted funky.

Ended up going to the salvage yard ripping a brake booster and master cyl. Solved the issue. Hours of work. But worth it.

Btw.. don't take this car to go get the parts, bro.

EDIT: Great time to look for a TEG unit to upgrade braking performance.

mizzoEG

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Since94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">assuming.. there is no leaks, no lines kinked or bubbled and they are in decent shape.

I had the same issue on a 91' DX.

Changed brakes.. bled and so on. Still acted funky.

Ended up going to the salvage yard ripping a brake booster and master cyl. Solved the issue. Hours of work. But worth it.

Btw.. don't take this car to go get the parts, bro.

EDIT: Great time to look for a TEG unit to upgrade braking performance.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm gonna gravity bleed the car right now, if this doesn't solve my brake problem I'll probably consider your idea about the integra BB and MC upgrade, but my confusion is that I got stock DX front discs and rear drums. Will my brakes work properly with the integra BB and MC with my stock brakes for now? thanks man

Since94

assuming you bled the brakes correctly/fully I should of added in there.. sorry bro.

yeah no problems with changing out the BB & MC. Pedal pressure should just increase.. and later when you upgrade to that sick *** GSR brake conversion for the front n back... you've got the most important part, people tend to forget, already out of the way.

TheJGB3

Are you sure that you adjusted the rear shoes up properly? They have to be adjusted up so that there is a slight drag on the drum. If this wasn't done correctly, then you would have a mushy low pedal and it's slow to stop.


Modified by TheJGB3 at 3:02 AM 9/15/2008

Since94

^ agreed. I posted assuming brakes were installed properly and adjusted correctly.

the drum should fit snug and with a slight drag as stated.

mizzoEG

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheJGB3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are you sure that you adjusted the rear shoes up properly? They have to be adjusted up so that there is a slight drag on the drum. If this wasn't done correctly, then you would have a mushy low pedal and it's slow to stop.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The drums were properly adjusted and I even checked them again before I did the bleed.

Well I gravity bleeded the brakes and the results were not 100%... I used a full 32oz. bottle of fresh brake fluid on this procedure. The Master Cylinder was constantly topped without being below the MIN line at all.

As I bleeded the brakes I noticed that the front discs had no air bubbles at all, but that didn't seem to suprise me seeing as I only changed the rear.

Heres the catch though, as I bleeded each rear drum I kept getting alot of itty-bitty tiny bubbles along with a couple normal bubbles, so I decided to continue to wait. I must've spent atleast 45-60 minutes on each side trying to get the air bubbles out but it just would not stop, eventually I just closed them off despite the fact that the bubbles didn't finish coming out. Good news is that my brakes now have some pressure but could be better, the car is now able to drive but the pedal is kinda mushy.

Does anyone know why the rear brakes did this? thanks in advance.

itsmejto

If you allowed the master cyl to drain completely, you need to "bench bleed" it by removing both brake lines, plugging both outlets on the master and pumping it till it gets hard and cannot pump any more and the push rod is solid. Then fill the master up, reconnect both brake lines and bleed FL-RR-FR-RL and push a good cupfull to each, don't push the pedal all the way to the floor, pump it in short strokes 2/3's way each time (with engine off) then raise rear and pull parking brake on one click, ajust cable screw till rears just rub a little, if out of balance, tug on the parking brake lever to center the cable eaqual to each. Then start engine, stomp on pedal a couple times to settle the front/rear ballace valve and if you did it right, you should have a firm pedal again.

Damn, after reading this some of it sounds darn right pornagraphic ... but it worked for me.

itsmejto

The drums were properly adjusted and I even checked them again before I did the bleed. ......................... etc.

Sometimes it is know that air can be drawn into the threads of the bleeding nipple and it's recomended to remove it alltogether and smear some very thick grease aka: petroleum jelly/vasceline on the threads to avoid this air getting back into the system when you release the brake pedal. It is best to tighten the nipple on each stroke before releasing the brake pedal which will avoid this altogether, but requires two people to do it. Also when bleeding the rear brakes, press the pedal very very slowly and gently to avoid the balance valve from closing prematurely wheils bleeding.

Keep us posted on your results Mr. mizzo

TheJGB3

I used teflon tape on all of my bleeder screws

mizzoEG

resolved it, you were right. my problem was that i wasn't successfully bleeding the rear because air was getting in through the bleeder threads. i applied teflon tape to the bleeders and bled the system again and bingo, brakes became firm.

the stopping power was increased greatly and now i'm gonna change my front pads because they are almost done. thanks for all the help guys.