judunty84

after reading the faq and preparing for my timing belt change i have a question about removal of the crank pulley bolt. i have seen a lot of recommendations saying to use an impact gun to remove the bolt if one is available to you. i remember when i had my neon that this was a bad idea, as the impact gun could possible damage the front main oil seal. am i correct or can i just crank away with the air tools?

Econo Appliance

I just use a big *** breaker bar.

dpaton

Do NOT use an impact. You're beating the **** out of the crank, the thrust bearings, and the #4(?) journal. Get the right tool from Amazon for $20 and a big *** breaker bar.

judunty84

thanks for the advice, that is what i was thinking, i couldnt imagine an impact being good for such precision parts, how exactly does that little tool work?

dpaton

There's a 'negative' socket hex in the crank pulley it fits into. Pop that bad boy in, add a breaker bar, then put on your normal socket+breaker bar combo for the bolt. Add PB Blaster, wait, then apply force, sometimes with the help of a friend. Presto, bolt comes out.

Kaspk

I actually took my crank pulley off an old bottom end today, I put the biggest breaker bar I had on there, and smacked it with a hammer 5 times...and it spun right off =/

Luserkid

Never had a problem using impact gun. That has to be a big *** vibration through the whole system to make the thrust washer go out of place, and before that happens the bolt will come off. Only way i see it not coming off and causing damage is if its siezed on there and snaps off in which case a new crank is needed anyway.

dpaton

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Luserkid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Never had a problem using impact gun.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yet.

I've seen the results before, and I'm sure someone else will see them again. When the engine fails, there's more than just bad rings. You'll probably get away with it, but anyone who has experience machining aluminum and steel to extremely tight tolerances will cringe when you tell them what you do. I wouldn't touch anything near my motor with an impact wrench. Maybe that's why I've never had a part break in the 13 years I've had my car.

instructor74

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dpaton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yet.

I've seen the results before, and I'm sure someone else will see them again. When the engine fails, there's more than just bad rings. You'll probably get away with it, but anyone who has experience machining aluminum and steel to extremely tight tolerances will cringe when you tell them what you do. I wouldn't touch anything near my motor with an impact wrench. Maybe that's why I've never had a part break in the 13 years I've had my car. </TD></TR></TABLE>
So buy your logic my motor should not be running ! I have never seen a engine fail as a result of using an impact gun to take off the crank bolt. Oh and buy the way the timing belt has been done 3 times.......Oh and to prove my point Ive never had an engine failure with over 225,000 0n the clock.

blackKready

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dpaton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There's a 'negative' socket hex in the crank pulley it fits into. Pop that bad boy in, add a breaker bar, then put on your normal socket+breaker bar combo for the bolt. Add PB Blaster, wait, then apply force, sometimes with the help of a friend. Presto, bolt comes out.</TD></TR></TABLE>

this is the proper tool for the job , i actually made one from scratch , heres mine:

as you can see , bottom handle off old useless jack , 6 pieces of i think its 1/4 inch , 3/8's maybe plate steel , not sure , thck though. 6 pieces measured/welded together to fit the negative hex on crank pullys. welded to jack handle. works mint.

dpaton

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by instructor74 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
So buy your logic my motor should not be running !</TD></TR></TABLE>

I never said that. I said it would be a contributing factor. These engines are tough, and can take a lot, but there's no need to apply abuse they were never intended to take, especially when a $19 tool alleviates the need for something as brtual as an impact gun, putting that force where it wasn't designed. You can't tell me that 900lb-ft of chattering steel is actually good for your bearings, main oil seal, and thrust plates, can you?

redej878

I spoke to a technician today( yes a Honda dealership) and he said it will not hurt the thrust bearings or any of the journals. He said he can see maybe it damaged if you were just pounding the **** out of it, but using am impact for a short amout of time will do no damage. The way he does it is hits it with the impact a couple short times and if that won't do it than he uses a 1/2 inch beaker bar and the honda crank pulley tool.

sporttuned

After you get the bolt out how does the pulley come off? I was doing this job tonight and just came in from the cold. I got the bolt out using a screw driver in the flywheel method (put small crack in bell housing!) because my impact wouldn't do the job. I have a 3 jaw pulley puller but it won't go on as the frame rail is in my way.

I'm stuck until I get the crank pulley off.

Shaun_

In the helms manual it says to use a Chain Wrench. I didnt like using it though cause it marred up the ribs on the pulley. I would def. get that tool from Amazon.com!

killerB16A

i have always used heat to get the bolts off.....but not too much because you could loose some of the tinsel strength in your bolt, and possibly ruin a seal. but it will help loosen it up. i have used this method for a few years and never had a prob.

antiricer

Just get the special tool a lot easier than anything else, I tired using tree different impacts and none of them worked

HeikDiesel

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dpaton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yet.

I've seen the results before, and I'm sure someone else will see them again. When the engine fails, there's more than just bad rings. You'll probably get away with it, but anyone who has experience machining aluminum and steel to extremely tight tolerances will cringe when you tell them what you do. I wouldn't touch anything near my motor with an impact wrench. Maybe that's why I've never had a part break in the 13 years I've had my car. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I build engines for a living and all of our main cap bolts are torque-turned with a 3/4 impact..... Runs for 15,000+ hours

ek99

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dpaton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yet.

I've seen the results before, and I'm sure someone else will see them again. When the engine fails, there's more than just bad rings. You'll probably get away with it, but anyone who has experience machining aluminum and steel to extremely tight tolerances will cringe when you tell them what you do. I wouldn't touch anything near my motor with an impact wrench. Maybe that's why I've never had a part break in the 13 years I've had my car. </TD></TR></TABLE>

That's BS. What do you think happens when you shift at 9000rpm with a non sprung 3 puck clutch? It puts a lot more force and side movement than a impact wrench could ever do. That's why an engine has thrust washers and 5 mains(Honda).

sporttuned

That tool gets the pulley to pop off? I have the bolt out but the pulley is on super tight it seems. Motor is a d15 with no ac or PS. The crank pulley has two places for belts and a bunch of holes in it. Sound right?

EDIT: I just re-read and someone said with all the belts off it pops right off. The timing belt is still on because I can not get the lower cover off without taking the pulley off first. Just cut the belt?

Syndacate

I don't know, I've use impact wrench on that cp bolt every chance I have that I'm down at the garage and I have access to the impact wrench. Never had anybody come back w/ their engine all messed up though .

I suppose anything's possible, but if the impact wrench can cause damage, it doesn't happen that often, b/c everybody I know uses an impact wrench whenever possible. If not, get out the breaker bar...simple as that, g2 settle for whatever you have.

There's some parts (ie. head gaskets) that I wouldn't recommend using an impact gun to take off, but others like the crank pulley I completely would. Sometimes that **** it stuck on there, I remember one time we couldn't get the thing off w/ TONS of penetrating oil, pb blaster, and impact wrench on max power (400 lb/ft I believe) - NOTHING.

We ended up putting it in the back of a pickup and driving it to a tractor trailer inspection station on I-84 - they got impact wrenches that take 2 people to hold....that **** came out - fast.

philosofy1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dpaton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Do NOT use an impact. You're beating the **** out of the crank, the thrust bearings, and the #4(?) journal. Get the right tool from Amazon for $20 and a big *** breaker bar.</TD></TR></TABLE>


i've used an impact on the crank bolt not only on my honda, but on other cars as well, and never had a problem. never sat there hitting it with the impact, just used it to break it loose. it took less than 10 seconds, i highly doubt damage can be cause in such little time.

dpaton

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dpaton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I never said that would make the engine fail. I said it would be a contributing factor. These engines are tough, and can take a lot, but there's no need to apply abuse they were never intended to take, especially when a $19 tool alleviates the need for something as brutal as an impact gun, putting that force where it wasn't designed. You can't tell me that 900lb-ft of chattering steel is actually good for your bearings, main oil seal, and thrust plates, can you? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Padawan

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dpaton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You can't tell me that 900lb-ft of chattering steel is actually good for your bearings, main oil seal, and thrust plates, can you? </TD></TR></TABLE>

And two guys hanging on the pulley with 4-foot breaker bars is?

Honestly, with the proper impact gun, you're talking about literally 5 seconds on the bolt before it's completely removed. Think about the forces that the crank is <u>continuously</u> subjected to during daily-driving and/or track use.

If you don't want to use an impact gun, that's your choice, but you really aren't going to damage the motor if you do.

dpaton

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Padawan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And two guys hanging on the pulley with 4-foot breaker bars is?</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you're actually hanging on the pulley you're doing it so wrong you should have your socket set revoked. Seriously. I've busted half a dozen crank bolts loose with the tool and a pair of breaker bars by myself, with no off-axial load placed on the bolt at all. Hold one to your chest, grab the other with your arms, and pull. And I live in the rust belt.

As for the forces generated by driving hard, they're completely different. Find someone to build you an FEA model of the motor some time and check it out. The piston forces are well supported by the bearings and damped partially by the design of the crank. Hammering on the nose of the crank imparts a completely different set of vibrations and force vectors. It won't kill the motor on it's own, but it damn sure isn't helping.

Padawan

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dpaton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no off-axial load placed on the bolt at all</TD></TR></TABLE>

The same can be said for the impact gun, for all of 5 seconds.

I don't need any models, my point is simply that there is a tremendous amount of vibration and force (of various kinds) being imparted upon the crank all day long. An extremely brief burst of rotational impact along its axis (you aren't "hammering on the nose") is not going to cause any issues whatsoever.

As I said, you don't have to use an impact gun if you don't want to. There's nothing wrong with erring on the side of caution, if that's how you want to view it. However, there are a tremendous number of people who routinely do use an impact gun on the bolt, with no adverse effects on the engine or its longevity.